jackal&hyde
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Martial is the better player for our system. Can score as many as Kane and contributes a lot more assist. We are not looking for a "traditional" nr 9 to build around but a fluid front 3.
Liverpool ran away with the league and none of their players hit 20 league goals. Martial and Rashford both got 17 each which is absolutely fine, although we obviously want them to score as many as possible. 20 is just some arbitrary benchmark that doesn't really mean much.There are two things that are true.
1. We need a forward who can score 20+ league goals consistently. Martial hasnt done that yet.
2. Hes been inconsistent in his career so far.
That said, to say we should replace him now is just lazy. Hes finally on the right track, in a team that suits him, and he deserves the opportunity to show he can address the two points above. If his form from the last 6 months continues he should have no problem.
Even if he cant and we do ultimately need to replace him in a couple of years, Harry Kane is not the right player to do it with.
Sancho is being bought to start. Mason will be the one that moves out and rotates.Martial is very under-rated by the press - and that has the Jose overhang to it. Jose never rated him as a no. 9 and moved him out wide. Martial never got a look in at that position during those 3 years. The press started believing that he is a winger because he enjoys going out wide and cutting in when he sees the space.
This is not an English bias (IMO) like others seem to suggest here. This 'proper No. 9' narrative became more prominent when Ole was going after Erling Haaland in the January window - which fueled further speculation that Ole does not trust Martial as a no.9.
Somehow the media thinks that we cannot have 5-6 quality forwards to fill 3 roles. Ole however has lived through the Fergie years and I am sure he wants to build a squad where an injury to Martial (like the 6-7 weeks in September/ October) doesn't derail an entire season. Whether he will be able to keep them happy with game time is another question. I think that's the reason why the Haaland transfer did not happen. On the other hand, Sancho may happen as he doesn't seem to be bothered about the Martial, Mason and Marcus combo keeping him out of the team.
I'd concede the heading. Not sure about better variety, I'd say that's Martials strong point. 1v1, Poachers goals(recent improvement), edge of the box screamers, clever flicks & chips.He has better variety of finishes than Martial and better in the air. Aside that there's nothing he is better than him at.
They get paid for your reaction to their obvious hyperbolic statementsAbout 3/4 years ago Merson wanted us to sell Martial for Payet.
These clowns get paid for spouting nonsense.
Seems like it doesn’t it. I don’t remember Martial being targeted much in his first season. Seems like the media latched on to Jose’s narrative about him being lazy & undedicated. How dare he want to be with his wife while she’s having problems in labour & not play LA Galaxy in a pointless friendly...All this stems from the prick that was our previous manager.
I rate Martial very very highly & I’d love it if you’re right but even I think you’re stretching it a bit here! We’ve had some incredible strikers over the last 30 years.They don't have a clue. Martial will go down as our best striker of the Premier League era by the time he is done.
Not sure if you’ve heard of him but there was this Rooney fella who played here for a while, he wasn’t half bad.The media and pundits just want to bask in the greatness of Kane, but know that England's best striker since Shearer, is likely to end with an even more sparse trophy cabinet than their previous diety.
Thus leaving a question mark over how great he can be considered.
Kane will likely finish his career with no big titles, and the nagging regret that Levy priced him out of a move, when it was still possible.
No it wasn't. Jose never played Martial as a No.9. He was never given the chance to show he can play that role.It was valid criticism a few years ago, when he wasn't making those runs behind or into the channels. He was either quite static, or always drifting to the wide areas. It was like he didn't want to be a #9. Some of his better games came from the wide left cutting in and taking defenders on, but it was fairly inconsistent.
There was a fella who was better than both, and ended up with a very healthy trophy haul. Goes by the name of Wayne Rooney..The media and pundits just want to bask in the greatness of Kane, but know that England's best striker since Shearer, is likely to end with an even more sparse trophy cabinet than their previous diety.
Thus leaving a question mark over how great he can be considered.
Kane will likely finish his career with no big titles, and the nagging regret that Levy priced him out of a move, when it was still possible.
I wouldnt say Kane is better as a pure striker yes but Martials over all game is better than KaneWas another thread needed for this?
Martial has been very good this season. Is Kane a better player? Yes.
Are Man Utd going to buy Kane? No.
Is there an agenda against Martial? No.
I'd wager you havnt watched us in the last 4 years?It was valid criticism a few years ago, when he wasn't making those runs behind or into the channels. He was either quite static, or always drifting to the wide areas. It was like he didn't want to be a #9. Some of his better games came from the wide left cutting in and taking defenders on, but it was fairly inconsistent.
I think he improved enormously in the last 18 months or so as a #9. His movement and instincts are more inline with an all out centre forward now than they used to be, and that is backed by the number of goals he's scored this year playing consistently in that position, and also without penalties.
Statistically Martial has a much conversion rate. Kane just shoots way more.Better finisher? Yes
Better player? Absolutely not!
Transfermarkt says he played 17 games under Jose as a centre forward. Not a lot, but also not never.No it wasn't. Jose never played Martial as a No.9. He was never given the chance to show he can play that role.
I think there is an element of this, we tend to pore over our own players' performances, whereas the media are mostly looking at many teams and have a more detached view that takes time to change.Sometimes it takes the media time to catch up on what fans have seen, they will catch up soon and actually realise he's the real deal up front and worthy of our number 9.
Transfermarkt says he played 17 games under Jose as a centre forward. Not a lot, but also not never.
I know transfermarkt says that but you also have to look at minutes he got.Transfermarkt says he played 17 games under Jose as a centre forward. Not a lot, but also not never.
Van Gaal also started him a centre forward in 15/16 (28 appearances) , then he moved him to the left (24 appearances) when he'd play Rooney up top (and because Memphis was garbage), and later in the season to accommodate Rashford. Most of Martial's goals that season were scored when he played on the left.
in the Jose/Ole season, he played on the left 28 times and scored 10 goals. He played up top 11 times and scored 2 goals.
There was genuine criticism - including from United fans - that he didn't operate as a centre forward when deployed there, his off the ball movement was poor, he didn't gamble at the near post, was often outside of the box when the ball came across goal. All of those things have definitely improved.
I'm not saying he was a shit centre forward back then. Just that he has gotten better at the basics of it, as you would expect a young player to do.
Any underrating of Martial by pundits is definitely being countered by the quite ludicrous overrating he receives on this forum.They don't have a clue. Martial will go down as our best striker of the Premier League era by the time he is done.
Too late, Gary has already started that propaganda. He's into the agenda early enough so he can get into the next gear of that agenda once Sancho gets here.I think Kane's had a "destined" for United feel about him since he came into the picture, which is why he's linked to United in just about every transfer window.
It's probably been a long held fantasy for the likes of G Neville and Scholes, which like any fan, can cloud one's judgement. However, that ship has sailed, and I'll have Martial anyday over Kane now.
Also, there is definitely an English bias, and if Sancho does arrive, just watch Gary and Co wind up the "Greenwood should play in the centre" or "Greenwood is ahead of Martial" comments to the extreme.
True. When the season started Gary Neville and others were fixated on Rashford being the number 9 but as the season progressed it turned out Martial and Rashford were better swapping and Rashford was actually both a better scorer and facilitator as an inside forward. Their fixation with the traditional number 9 feels more like a dated infatuation than an actual planI think English pundits tend to have an obsession with the number 9 in general. Football has changed, any/all of your forwards can be your main goalscoring threats. After the restart Rashford has been staying a bit more wide, but other wise he has as much a goalscoring role as anyone else. Same with Ronaldo and Madrid and so on. It's hardly as if these players would double their output as CF. And hence you have many teams where the wide forwards score more than the central one.
Obviously that's not to say that your 9 shouldn't be excellent. Just that it's the combined attack that matters.
Like with a lot of United players, he went through a phase of fans believing that his best position was whichever position he didn't play in. If he had a poor game as a 9, it's because he's a left winger, and if he played poor out wide it was because he needs to be through the middle. Pundits were saying the same sort of thing as well, all whilst talking about the £50m tag, which didn't help. He was good at both, but still with a lot of room to improve.I know transfermarkt says that but you also have to look at minutes he got.
16/17 - he played 7 times as CF, 3 times in the CL totalling 39 minutes. PL 190 minutes. That is not enough to prove yourself.
I know we were critical of him, which was more to do with his consistency as well. Until this season, he has not had a fair crack for the position.
He's scored many this season, and I'd expect him to score even more next season. If everything goes well too, I could see him scoring for quite a few years. We've had some top strikers, but not many quite had his all-round game though.I rate Martial very very highly & I’d love it if you’re right but even I think you’re stretching it a bit here! We’ve had some incredible strikers over the last 30 years.
It's a prediction.Any underrating of Martial by pundits is definitely being countered by the quite ludicrous overrating he receives on this forum.
Three thick bastards and a scouser, no surprises they're trying to tear down one of our best players.It feels like every other day there’s a new “expert” in the media saying Martial isn’t good enough & needs replacing. Just in the last day we’ve seen Paul Scholes go on BT & say Harry Kane should be a bigger priority than Sancho because “United need a real number 9” and Paul Merson on sky sports saying that Martial isn’t reliable & we should replace with Kane. I’ve seen Savage, Murphy, Ince, and the like all come out with the same narrative.
What is going on here? Because these 2 aren’t isolated incidents. I see it all the time. Are these “pundits” even watching us play? Martial has been our most consistent forward this season, has 23 goals despite 2 months out & not taking pens. Yet it’s always him who the media call to be replaced. You really do have to question wether how nationality is playing a part here?
Don’t get me wrong Kane is a very good player, but he’s starting to develop a questionable injury record & I don’t think he would fit our forward as well as Martial does. He certainly shouldn’t be our “top priority” like Scholes thinks. Loved him as a player but he’s clueless at times as a pundit
Not sure if you’ve heard of him but there was this Rooney fella who played here for a while, he wasn’t half bad.
Maybe I should have said No.9 as striker can be a broad term.There was a fella who was better than both, and ended up with a very healthy trophy haul. Goes by the name of Wayne Rooney..
Exactly. And although we need a proper number 9 as plan B but Kane would not be very happy if we sign him and then bench him. We need a big tall Number 9 as back up or plan B. I guess we will do the business once Ighalo goesMartial is the better player for our system. Can score as many as Kane and contributes a lot more assist. We are not looking for a "traditional" nr 9 to build around but a fluid front 3.
Pretty much nails it.Was another thread needed for this?
Martial has been very good this season. Is Kane a better player? Yes.
Are Man Utd going to buy Kane? No.
Is there an agenda against Martial? No.
Fair enough. Still ten times the number 9 Kane will ever be though when he did play there.Maybe I should have said No.9 as striker can be a broad term.
While he played there sometimes, Rooney wasn't an archetypal centre forward, and he doesn't consider himself one.
Hey! You got to look smart for a second though.