Matthias Sammer
The Coronavirus Draft
- Thread starter GodShaveTheQueen
- Start date
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There were 8 items in your list. Here they are in random order:
There were 8 items in your list. Here they are in random order:
- Skizzo
- Michael
- Greensmiley
- EAP
- Physiocrat
- Indnyc
- Isotope
- 2mufc0
| Manager | Round 1 | Round 2 | Round 3 | Round 4 | Round 5 | Round 6 | Round 7 | Round 8 | Round 9 | Round 10 | Round 11 | Round 12 | Round 13 | Round 14 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| EAP | S. Mazzola | Cafu | F. Cannavaro | I. Netto | C. Makélélé | H. P. Briegel | G. Buffon | G. Signori | G. Mendieta | P. Elkjaer | Eusebio | G. Muller | ||
| Physiocrat | J. Masopust | Z. Boniek | D. Santos | L. Modrić | A. Costacurta | Shesternyov | B. Lizarazu | M. Neuer | F. Totti | B. Bremner | A. Di Stefano | B. Moore | ||
| Isotope | P. Breitner | D. Law | L. Thuram | M. Kaltz | M. Laudrup | W. Schulz | J. Santamaria | S. Eto'o | F. Albert | U. Fillol | Zico | P. Maldini | ||
| Michael | O. Blokhin | Rummenigge | D. Alves | N. Gonçalves | F. Redondo | L. Júnior | Didi | Schwarzenbeck | R. Carvalho | J. Chilavert | D. Maradona | H. Stoichkov | ||
| Greensmiley | J. Zanetti | Schnellinger | O. Ruggeri | M. Trésor | M. Tardelli | R. Giggs | L. Kubala | J. Johnstone | P. Jennings | R. Bonhof | Van Basten | G. Facchetti | ||
| 2mufc0 | Schweinsteiger | D. Edwards | Rivaldo | A. Brehme | C. Gentile | L. Suárez | A. Picchi | P. Schmeichel | Jairzinho | P. Gento | L. Matthäus | E. Figueroa | ||
| Indnyc | B. Charlton | Romario | N. Vidić | P. Vieira | N. Santos | D. McGrain | M. Coluna | K. Hamrin | O. Kahn | N. Stiles | F. Rijkaard | G. Scirea | ||
| Skizzo | A. Cole | J. Kohler | T. Henry | G. Souness | T. Burgnich | T. Cerezo | H. Crespo | R. Dasayev | W. Sagnol | K. Dalglish | M. Platini | M. Sammer |
@GodShaveTheQueen
in order to create a little bit of a reward for winning the first round game, why not let the first round winners have first dibs for the sheep section? Don’t think it’s really fair that someone who was beaten could end up blocking a player you want and end up giving you a sheep. That way, the coropa league gets a slightly less strong pool to choose from. Shouldn’t add too much time to the overall thing too
in order to create a little bit of a reward for winning the first round game, why not let the first round winners have first dibs for the sheep section? Don’t think it’s really fair that someone who was beaten could end up blocking a player you want and end up giving you a sheep. That way, the coropa league gets a slightly less strong pool to choose from. Shouldn’t add too much time to the overall thing too
Piss off DVG.
You shouldn’t be allowed to block my CB pick if that’s what I need. There needs to be incentive to win
Not actually a bad idea, but to make it fairer I'd do it as R1-A R1-B, R2-A R2-B etc so they aren't actually waiting for all the winners to get a player first, but still a slight advantage in competing against less players.
Messi can play CB no problem
Not as well as busquets
The only 1st round picks not stolen yet are Bobby Charlton and Cristiano? 
I've just realized the losing teams are still around and getting involved in our picks. WTF!
List Randomizer
There were 8 items in your list. Here they are in random order:
Coronavirus Champions League Teams
@Šjor Bepo @Invictus
There were 8 items in your list. Here they are in random order:
- Enigma
- DVG7
- Harms
- Šjor Bepo/Invictus
- Himannv
- Pnut/Jim
- Moby
- Pat
Coronavirus Champions League Teams
| Manager | Round 1 | Round 2 | Round 3 | Round 4 | Round 5 | Round 6 | Round 7 | Round 8 | Round 9 | Round 10 | Round 11 | Round 12 | Round 13 | Round 14 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Himannv | V. van Dijk | Ronaldinho | R. Keane | E. Davids | M. Amoros | A. Pirlo | M. Bossis | G. Bergomi | J-M Pfaff | N. Hidegkuti | D. Villa | Beckenbauer | Garrincha | |
| Moby | D. Džajić | Z. Zidane | P. R. Falcão | S. Effenberg | S. Matthews | E. Gerets | G. Batistuta | J. Camacho | Mazurkiewicz | Lewandowski | M. Desailly | D. Passarella | ||
| DVG7 | A. Robben | Xavi | A. Iniesta | D. Godin | R. Rensenbrink | Marcelo | P. Guardiola | S. Busquets | W. Suurbier | A. Carrizo | L. Messi | |||
| Šjor/Inv | V. Voronin | U. Seeler | R. Krol | P. Scholes | C. Ferrara | V. Vasović | K. De Bruyne | S. Maier | G. Buchwald | P. McCourt | L. Ronaldo | |||
| Enigma | P. Lahm | F. Puskas | J. Tigana | K. Förster | S. Marzolini | R. Rivelino | Van Hanegem | G. Banks | B. Conti | A. Vidal | Pelé | |||
| Harms | B. Robson | R. Gullit | G. Rivera | R. Carlos | H. Chumpitaz | S. Kocsis | S. Campbell | J. Bozsik | Leandro | van der Sar | V. Bessonov | F. Baresi | ||
| Pnut/Jim | P. Nedvěd | L. Riva | L. Suárez. M | B. Vogts | R. Baggio | L. Yashin | Demyanenko | D. Beckham | N. Kante | B. McNeill | J. Cruyff | R. Ferdinand | ||
| Pat | C. Ronaldo | P. Mcgrath | J. Neeskens | A. Cabrini | L. Figo | C. Alberto | J. Pirri | E. Francescoli | D. Drogba | B. Schuster | P. Shilton | L. Blanc | G. Best | A. Nesta |
@Šjor Bepo @Invictus
Sjors pick is obvious as anything may as well fill it in for him
The sheep round is likely to have even lesser quality and no guaranteed chance of getting a player so that's hardly going to compensate for me losing two GOAT CBs.
The overall point is that both in the last draft and this draft, teams who won lost their best players and could generally make sideways moves at best or sometimes downwards. The idea behind any reinforcement round is that we get to improve our lesser players/weaknesses found in previous round with better players, not lose our best players and get to replace them with similar/worse players. That makes no sense.
I also don't see a lot of value in being able to pick players from teams that have won with them having no control over it. This kind of wonky stuff is fine from time to time if the draft itself is more of a fun one itself, but in a draft where the original drafting was more focussed on people strategising on getting a certain type of theme/tactics whatever (this one would fall under that category) then I wouldn't necessarily say that this kind of shuffling helps winning managers going forward. Given the amount of detail that gets discussed, it isn't just quality but also the style of player that matters.
I think we need to have clarification of the reinforcements at least on a high level before the draft starts and not have it revealed later on, so as to know how much effort to put in finding players and stuff. But whenever it is revealed, the intention of reinforcements shouldn't get lost in the grand scheme of things, especially winning teams being able to lose the players who are central to their teams is a big negative for me. Here for example we could have had an option to protect a certain amount of players and then possibly go about picking players from our pool and the losing teams pool. Not sure why we didn't have access to the losing teams pool as well.
List Randomizer
There were 8 items in your list. Here they are in random order:
- Enigma
- DVG7
- Harms
- Šjor Bepo/Invictus
- Himannv
- Pnut/Jim
- Moby
- Pat
Coronavirus Champions League Teams
| Manager | Round 1 | Round 2 | Round 3 | Round 4 | Round 5 | Round 6 | Round 7 | Round 8 | Round 9 | Round 10 | Round 11 | Round 12 | Round 13 | Round 14 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Himannv | V. van Dijk | Ronaldinho | R. Keane | E. Davids | M. Amoros | A. Pirlo | M. Bossis | G. Bergomi | J-M Pfaff | N. Hidegkuti | D. Villa | Beckenbauer | Garrincha | |
| Moby | D. Džajić | Z. Zidane | P. R. Falcão | S. Effenberg | S. Matthews | E. Gerets | G. Batistuta | J. Camacho | Mazurkiewicz | Lewandowski | M. Desailly | D. Passarella | ||
| DVG7 | A. Robben | Xavi | A. Iniesta | D. Godin | R. Rensenbrink | Marcelo | P. Guardiola | S. Busquets | W. Suurbier | A. Carrizo | L. Messi | |||
| Šjor/Inv | V. Voronin | U. Seeler | R. Krol | P. Scholes | C. Ferrara | V. Vasović | K. De Bruyne | S. Maier | G. Buchwald | P. McCourt | L. Ronaldo | C. Ronaldo | ||
| Enigma | P. Lahm | F. Puskas | J. Tigana | K. Förster | S. Marzolini | R. Rivelino | Van Hanegem | G. Banks | B. Conti | A. Vidal | Pelé | |||
| Harms | B. Robson | R. Gullit | G. Rivera | R. Carlos | H. Chumpitaz | S. Kocsis | S. Campbell | J. Bozsik | Leandro | van der Sar | V. Bessonov | F. Baresi | ||
| Pnut/Jim | P. Nedvěd | L. Riva | L. Suárez. M | B. Vogts | R. Baggio | L. Yashin | Demyanenko | D. Beckham | N. Kante | B. McNeill | J. Cruyff | R. Ferdinand | ||
| Pat | P. Mcgrath | J. Neeskens | A. Cabrini | L. Figo | C. Alberto | J. Pirri | E. Francescoli | D. Drogba | B. Schuster | P. Shilton | L. Blanc | G. Best | A. Nesta |
@Enigma_87
I've just realized the winning teams are still around and getting involved in our picks. WTF!
My bad! Didn't read things through wrt. the reinforcement randomization, and just tagged Enigma because he was next-up on the Squad List.
@harms, your turn.
The reward is playing in the Champions League.
You can't be expecting people to continue drafting but be treated as second class citizens. Same pool for everyone.
I don't agree that reinforcements should only mean improving the squad in a non diluted goat fledged draft. The teams were already super strong.
I also think it's equally unfair to everyone. Not fair that Sjor loses Pele/Garrincha. Not fair that Pnut loses Kaiser/Desailly.
The teams in the top and bottom also did have an advantage during initial drafting so that needed to balanced out with redistribution of goats. While you have to applaud Moby for the incredible team he built, there is no denying his drafting position helped him nab a lot of those players. And while his position helped him in initial drafting, it screws him here. If he was on the top, he would have gotten Beckenbauer and probably wouldn't have had a lot to feel unfair about.
I don't claim it to be a perfect system of course.
I also think it's equally unfair to everyone. Not fair that Sjor loses Pele/Garrincha. Not fair that Pnut loses Kaiser/Desailly.
The teams in the top and bottom also did have an advantage during initial drafting so that needed to balanced out with redistribution of goats. While you have to applaud Moby for the incredible team he built, there is no denying his drafting position helped him nab a lot of those players. And while his position helped him in initial drafting, it screws him here. If he was on the top, he would have gotten Beckenbauer and probably wouldn't have had a lot to feel unfair about.
I don't claim it to be a perfect system of course.
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This is a very traditional take and frankly dated nowadays. Adding known and picked players again repeatedly takes away the novelty factor. teams become entirely predictable and you can even guess the reinforcement pick to a high degree of success. Stuff like this, makes way for a dynamic team. The challenge becomes on who best navigates the difficulties, rather than who has the strongest team.
However you've succeeded in GSTQ's third objective of ranting at the mod
I like the group stage separation in particular. Going out after 1 match frankly sucks and able to get a second chance even in a shootout is far more appealing.
Was going to announce the best student at the end of the reinforcementsHowever you've succeeded in GSTQ's third objective of ranting at the mod
I still think the problem is that everyone pretty much knew who are they going to lose. Looking at the teams those are the names you expected to be gone (maybe only sjor/invictus weren't sure about Garrincha, even Rio was pretty much expected as a chain reaction of losing too many CB's, same as one of Bergomi, Mcgrath in the following rounds).
So, if you knew who you are going to lose most will go filling those spots and am not sure how it would ever result in various different systems/tactics.
Secondly, it takes a lot of excitement out of it imo.
But, it is interesting for a change and the Coropa league was a brilliant move. I mean just look at how happy they are. Like pigs in the mud.
Not surprised to see an anarchist like you be in support of all this!This is a very traditional take and frankly dated nowadays. Adding known and picked players again repeatedly takes away the novelty factor. teams become entirely predictable and you can even guess the reinforcement pick to a high degree of success. Stuff like this, makes way for a dynamic team. The challenge becomes on who best navigates the difficulties, rather than who has the strongest team.
However you've succeeded in GSTQ's third objective of ranting at the mod
You can't force anyone to try different tactics if they are hell bent on using the same. You can provide an opportunity and those who like to change will change.
This for me is even more helpful if someone does want to change his team around. Helps with the system transition if you knew where you'd be with respect to players lost.
Maybe I designed this based on how I would have loved it if I was playing
Coronopa League is where excitement happens
Point was to not go for one to one replacement.
Oh, the arrogance of a part time AM
Yeah changing could have been possible, but when you lose both CBs you need to use 2 picks to get 2 back as a minimum.You can't force anyone to try different tactics if they are hell bent on using the same. You can provide an opportunity and those who like to change will change.
This for me is even more helpful if someone does want to change his team around. Helps with the system transition if you knew where you'd be with respect to players lost.
Maybe I designed this based on how I would have loved it if I was playing
Losing midfielders and attackers means you can reshuffle but defenders not so much.
Nah you don't need to. That is why there is a 3rd round. I described this exact situation in the OP
Yeah I haven't done thought you'd clock that
Well, we didn't. But, in general where it hits you, you will try to get replacement there. Especially if the pool is limited and you are losing GOAT.
The third round is a sheep round, which doesn't guarantee getting a good replacement let alone one which can be called an upgrade.
It isn't just about the quality of players either. Someone could have spent the whole draft looking for players which suit a particular theme or playing style, and then bring forced to lose the key components and replace them either from a closed pool or sheep rounds etc would end up in all that effort going to waste. I could have picked Xavi from DVG here for example and there's no chance he could have retained that theme.
Which is why we are asking to have at least a broad idea before hand on whether the draft will be a sensible one or have such shenanigans. That will at least allow us to decide whether to commit to a particular playing style and invest the extra effort or not. I was actually in a good position from that point of view because I did not go for any theme, but DVG for example was extremely lucky that he managed to pick Messi before Cruyff was taken away and no one hit on Xavi or Iniesta due to being forced to pick in other areas.
This needs to be cleared at the start in any draft in future, and not brought on as a surprise at a later stage so that people can plan accordingly. It will end up with people playing safe and picking an assortment of names without trying out particular setups but at least it will be clear in advanace.
Yeah, that part is obvious.Maybe I designed this based on how I would have loved it if I was playing
Which is why its mandatory for everyone to play the sheep round pick. Everyone will have one unpicked player starting in some position.
Are you saying there are no players similar to Xavi's playing style? Maybe not of the same quality, but its not very difficult to retain the theme with a sheep round replacement for Xavi.
Its not losing the theme that anyone would have a problem with, its losing the vote pull of Xavi-Busquets-Iniesta midfield.
If I had announced this at the start of the draft, it would have been pointless. Imagine picking Diego knowing you'll lose him in next round.
Please start sending your sheep round picks if you have made both your picks and lost 2 players
With a proven record with Iniesta and Busquets? Busquets would never get picked unless he is being paired with the other two. The impact of that trio is exponentially increased when they are fielded together and someone like Busi in another team even with a similar philosophy wouldn't get half the credit.
Exactly my point.
That is a bit too convenient and lazy drafting method for me. The good drafters should be able to sell unproven partnerships as well.
I can understand others might not feel that way.