The current negativity and how will it effect next season?

beingshe7don

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See the poll in jose assessment thread. Tell me there's no agenda there when almost a third of united fans wants the second best manager in the world to be sacked while still sitting 2nd and won 2 cups less than 12 mths ago.
Yes, Mourinho has made us progress. There is no doubt about it. But United fans want attacking play especially when two of our biggest rivals are doing so effectively. The players that we have at the moment possess an attacking mindset and we risk losing them since the style of play is very rigid. There are very few players in the team that are specifically Mourinho type players... Lukaku, Matic. McTominay to name a few. We can't change all of our players. Part of management involves utilizing what's there and getting the best out of them.

We as fans accept the occasional grind out results against the top teams but we should be destroying teams like what City have done this season. Our players look lethargic and don't press throughout the game. The first half of the Swansea game was all attack and then the second half, we were back to just jogging in the park mindset. People look disinterested and that affects us fans and that comes down to the manager instilling the style of play or mindset. Hence, people not wanting Mourinho here.
 

FerociousCorgis

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Yes, Mourinho has made us progress. There is no doubt about it. But United fans want attacking play especially when two of our biggest rivals are doing so effectively. The players that we have at the moment possess an attacking mindset and we risk losing them since the style of play is very rigid. There are very few players in the team that are specifically Mourinho type players... Lukaku, Matic. McTominay to name a few. We can't change all of our players. Part of management involves utilizing what's there and getting the best out of them.

We as fans accept the occasional grind out results against the top teams but we should be destroying teams like what City have done this season. Our players look lethargic and don't press throughout the game. The first half of the Swansea game was all attack and then the second half, we were back to just jogging in the park mindset. People look disinterested and that affects us fans and that comes down to the manager instilling the style of play or mindset. Hence, people not wanting Mourinho here.
exactly. Yeah even SAF would grind out certain results. But the whole season can't be that. I would even go so far to say even if we are pretty successful doing that, it still wouldn't be something i would want to see. This is supposed to be entertainment for us. If we are winning but having absolutely no fun watching and the games are just chores to watch what is the point? Soccer is a game, it should be fun to watch.
 

Sky1981

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Mate, there's a variety of reasons why fans may want him gone. Perhaps they really dislike the football which isn't great. Some fans priorities the style of football over winning at all costs. Perhaps it's the sniping and snide remarks he makes towards the fans in the stadium. Perhaps it's the ludicrous excuses he comes out with after a particularly bad performance/result. Perhaps it's the nonsensical shite he said after the Sevilla game. Perhaps it's his general demeanour; the guy is a bit of a miserable prick tbh.

Maybe it's a combination of all of these. The point is, stop with this "agenda" shite. It's reductive and bloody paranoid.
You just explained my point. People just dont like him they can't see anything else
 

Sky1981

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Yes, Mourinho has made us progress. There is no doubt about it. But United fans want attacking play especially when two of our biggest rivals are doing so effectively. The players that we have at the moment possess an attacking mindset and we risk losing them since the style of play is very rigid. There are very few players in the team that are specifically Mourinho type players... Lukaku, Matic. McTominay to name a few. We can't change all of our players. Part of management involves utilizing what's there and getting the best out of them.

We as fans accept the occasional grind out results against the top teams but we should be destroying teams like what City have done this season. Our players look lethargic and don't press throughout the game. The first half of the Swansea game was all attack and then the second half, we were back to just jogging in the park mindset. People look disinterested and that affects us fans and that comes down to the manager instilling the style of play or mindset. Hence, people not wanting Mourinho here.
Ok. Just don't complain when we finished 5th with the next manager. Because that's what you all want isnt it?
 

Kapardin

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Mate, there's a variety of reasons why fans may want him gone. Perhaps they really dislike the football which isn't great. Some fans priorities the style of football over winning at all costs. Perhaps it's the sniping and snide remarks he makes towards the fans in the stadium. Perhaps it's the ludicrous excuses he comes out with after a particularly bad performance/result. Perhaps it's the nonsensical shite he said after the Sevilla game. Perhaps it's his general demeanour; the guy is a bit of a miserable prick tbh.

Maybe it's a combination of all of these. The point is, stop with this "agenda" shite. It's reductive and bloody paranoid.
These are very generic. Every manager would come up with ridiculous excuses if they don't deliver targets. You think Poch or Jardim won't try to deflect if they managed us and delivered some bad results? For all his obnoxious behaviour, I think Klopp is the only manager who is sometimes honest in taking the blame.

Jose's behaviour has been fine. His occasional snipes at the fans is to make sure they are loud during the game, its' been a tactic of his since ages regardless of whether it works or not. But overall, he has not done anything remotely offensive.
 

reddevil702

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Very true, we just have to come to terms with the Jose way unfortunately.
The sad part about it, is that I can't really get excited about this summer's transfer window, because after 2 years and 4 transfer windows I have got the feeling it doesn't matter who we buy we will continue to play this dire football. The only concern I have at the moment, is that if you go by the media(95% cr@p) we seem to be linked with a lot of 29-30 year old ready made players who will be looking for a final contract/payday.
Say we do sign players around that age (Vidal, Bale, Willian) and win the PL next year then I highly doubt anyone would complain. We all love the idea of signing young up and coming players with world class potential but don't have the patience to go through the growing pains. IMO given our current squad we really need a good mix of ready made players coming in along with say 1 or 2 young signings.
 

EyeInTheSky

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Ok. Just don't complain when we finished 5th with the next manager. Because that's what you all want isnt it?
They are not the ones who will not have to answer when things go wrong and even if there was a manager available that was good enough(which there is not) they will either be nowhere to be seen when it falls apart or they will say "yeah we finished 8th and won nothing but the football is "better"
 

Adisa

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Ok. Just don't complain when we finished 5th with the next manager. Because that's what you all want isnt it?
So we're back to this myth that it's either entertainment or results.
 

Bobski

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Winning 4-0 does not necessarily mean entertaining football, the same way that 0-0 or a tight 1-0 does not instantly mean negative play.

What I would like to see is more consistent intent in the way Utd play. Too often the first concern is stopping what the other team is doing instead of trying to impose a style of their own. It is reactive and relies on the other team to take the initiative, putting Utd into the scrappy underdog role. It works up to a point but, and perhaps this is my entitlement coming out, it is a jarring fit for a club with the resources and the standing that Utd has.

I don't envisage much of a change even with better players. Results may improve, be more consistent, but the approach, no, I think this is very close to end product Mourinho. I think even if we were top of the league there would be an undercurrent of dissatisfaction with it.
 

breakout67

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So we're back to this myth that it's either entertainment or results.
It's not a myth.

There were genuinely some people that didn't care about our two trophies last season and would have preferred us to go trophyless but play better football and be higher in the table.

Football for me is about special experiences, but some people seem to treat it like watching a movie. Of course, it's fine if you see it like that, but please stop acting as if you are speaking on behalf of all United fans.
 

Sky1981

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They are not the ones who will not have to answer when things go wrong and even if there was a manager available that was good enough(which there is not) they will either be nowhere to be seen when it falls apart or they will say "yeah we finished 8th and won nothing but the football is "better"
Yeh.. probably the same set of fans who wants moyes instead of mourinho 5 years ago.
 

BusbyMalone

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Ok. Just don't complain when we finished 5th with the next manager. Because that's what you all want isnt it?
And if we finish first with the next manager?

And yes, we all want us to finish 5th. You nailed it. Fecking hell :rolleyes:
 

Adisa

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It's not a myth.

There were genuinely some people that didn't care about our two trophies last season and would have preferred us to go trophyless but play better football and be higher in the table.

Football for me is about special experiences, but some people seem to treat it like watching a movie. Of course, it's fine if you see it like that, but please stop acting as if you are speaking on behalf of all United fans.
Wtf are you on about?
I'm saying it's possible to be both entertaining and results oriented.
 

BusbyMalone

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These are very generic. Every manager would come up with ridiculous excuses if they don't deliver targets. You think Poch or Jardim won't try to deflect if they managed us and delivered some bad results? For all his obnoxious behaviour, I think Klopp is the only manager who is sometimes honest in taking the blame.

Jose's behaviour has been fine. His occasional snipes at the fans is to make sure they are loud during the game, its' been a tactic of his since ages regardless of whether it works or not. But overall, he has not done anything remotely offensive.

Don't really care what Poch or Jardim would or wouldn't do if they were managing us tbh. They're not, so it's a moot point.

As for Jose's behaviour being fine? Well, that's clearly a very subjective thing as many people don't consider some of his behaviour to be fine at all. And perhaps he wouldn't need to have snipes at the fans in order to make sure they made some noise, if the football was a little more pleasing on the eye and the players gave them something to shout about. The atmosphere was buzzing before the Sevilla game and then the game kicked off...

Leaving snide remarks post match is not going to rectify that quite frankly.
 

breakout67

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Wtf are you on about?
I'm saying it's possible to be both entertaining and results oriented.
Of course it is, but it is not a myth that some people are willing to sacrifice results for style of play.

I think as a club with our resources, the aim should be to win and entertain, but some people do not care that much about the winning part; it's like an after thought. That's why the 'myth' isn't a myth, because some fans do not have a problem with a situation where we are like Arsenal when they treated top 4 like a trophy and played entertaining.
 

JMack1234

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Well, we could potentially end this season by lifting the FA cup which would put everyone in a good mood for the closed season. Then add in a few nice shiny signings, maybe a few of our players having a storming World Cup and maybe seeing the back of few players we want gone like Fellaini, Blind and Darmian.
 

Adisa

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Of course it is, but it is not a myth that some people are willing to sacrifice results for style of play.

I think as a club with our resources, the aim should be to win and entertain, but some people do not care that much about the winning part; it's like an after thought. That's why the 'myth' isn't a myth, because some fans do not have a problem with a situation where we are like Arsenal when they treated top 4 like a trophy and played entertaining.
I'm not talking about what the fans think or want. I'm saying as a club, we shouldn't have to be sacrificing entertainment for results when the two aren't mutually exclusive.
I'm tired of seeing "would you rather be fourth"when someone suggests we need to play better football.
 

VeevaVee

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Everyone here will be excited for the new season. It's the players that need to sort out their heads
 

Andersons Dietician

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I thought that. United fans thought that......I could ask a spurs fan about the kind of football they are known for...or even the West Ham way.....The British media at no time shared your view of how Manchester United play football.....we were lucky, bribed refs, fergie time!
We must have been reading different papers and watching different shows at the time tho as the media and pundits ulagised about us with many claiming it was a better team than 99 and also we were the favourites when we went up against Peps Barca. People went on about that drubbing of Arsenal in the champions league and how quick beautiful and swift our attacking was. It might not be to the standard city are gettingncurrently but it was there.
 

Morpheus 7

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I think it depends on the extent of the clear out and numbers coming in to make real progress. This is the way I see it.

Replacing Carrick properly: Spending on a quality midfielder, his final season has been a non event. We will miss his experience but need somebody to take the burden over from an exhausted Matic.

Fellaini: If he leaves, looking likely but Jose clearly wants him to stay. I don't have a huge problem with the wig but I do how Jose sees him. The temptation to start him is an issue, he slows us down and should only ever be used as a plan b in the 75th minute. Need to replace with a forward thinking energetic player. He's almost in Jose's default setting, needs to stop.

Full backs: Shaw needs replaced, he clearly isn't fancied and it's time to move on. Young shouldn't be the first choice at Man United. He should be a squad player that is used rarely. Valencia needs competition and should be a squad player too, he's useful but we need a younger player with better delivery.

CB: This has been a strange season. Bailly has been injured too much and Rojo hasn't recovered from injury. Lindelof hasn't settled and we have been left with Jones and Smalling. One of the chuckle brothers needs to go. We can't have the 2011 defense of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Young if we are serious about winning the league. I personally would like Smalling to be replaced, Jones is more injury proned but is the better player in my opinion.

Balance: Finding a way to get a settled midfield, getting the best out of Sanchez and Pogba.

Top teams away: We need to show more intent, I have no reason or problem with a draw at anfield but it's the manner. Fans don't want to see us camp outside our box. The fans need to see us take a game to a team away. Even a good counter performance like Arsenal. Not showing up to Spurs or Chelsea away just won't cut it anymore.

Less moaning from Jose: He has an effect on the players and feel around the club. Calling out players publicly and complaining about needing more after this window isn't acceptable. 3 summer windows should be enough to get what he needs in and out. Maybe more signings like Bailly is needed, rather than huge names at 70m plus. We need to clear out a few this Summer. Why are the club playing player's Blind, Darmian, Shaw ect when they aren't playing.

Games approach at Old Trafford: Starting with a high energy and not settling for a narrow victory. Fans want to be entertained. We don't want to settled for 1 or 2.0. We want intimidation and to be looking for a third and fourth, not protecting a lead to lesser opposition. We need to concentrate on what we can do, instead of nullifying and cancelling out opposition. That Sevilla game isn't man United, playing two defensive midfielders at home. The level of negativity should never be seen again in a knockout game. It's not acceptable, there is no shame in going out but you need to have a go and be brave. Jose will have no excuses next year, if he does it will only highlight his failure to deliver.

We have made progress but it's slow progress. Jose and the players have responsibility to perform. They are not the only one's either. Fans at Old Trafford need to show more support, stop sitting there mute and doing feck all. The club need to stop going in a merry go round of blame, need to address the issues or make a change next summer. It's time to improve and build on this season. Anything other than challenging for the league next year is a failure.
 

RedorDead21

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exactly. Yeah even SAF would grind out certain results. But the whole season can't be that. I would even go so far to say even if we are pretty successful doing that, it still wouldn't be something i would want to see. This is supposed to be entertainment for us. If we are winning but having absolutely no fun watching and the games are just chores to watch what is the point? Soccer is a game, it should be fun to watch.
You really mean fun to watch and winning trophies though.....you're just pretending the good football is sufficient to satisfy....
 

Gordon S

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Don’t understand this agenda talk. Makes no sense. It’s impossible for me to think we play slow and laboured football because i don’t like Mourinho’s personality? We are actually not that defensive and afraid to attack when we are up against good teams?
It’s my mind playing tricks on me because i don’t like Mourinho?

And it is perfectly possible for a club like Manchester United to play with some more attacking intent and pick up 68 points after 31 rounds of football.
 

beingshe7don

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Ok. Just don't complain when we finished 5th with the next manager. Because that's what you all want isnt it?
Why is playing entertaining football and winning titles mutually exclusive?
Man City have done it this year
Madrid & Barcelona do it year after year
PSG do it
Bayern Munich also do it

If all of those teams can do it, I don't think it's too much to expect out of the BIGGEST club in the world. Just saying...
 

GiddyUp

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Even with some new signings I believe the most important thing is for our attackers to get on the same wavelength. Too many good runs being ignored and passes to nowhere this season.
 

GiddyUp

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Keeping negativity aside, I would really like Mourinho to implement the Liverpool style of play. We may not have the personnel to play Man City style of football but certainly should be able to play Klopp style.

Sanchez, Martial and Lukaku should be just as good of an attack as Salah, Firmino and Mane?

We have a better midfield and defense and goalkeeper than Liverpool surely.
It would be very nice but first I want us to put some lower teams to the sword. Swansea game was a good example, even with Mourinho's pragmatism the players should have put at least four goals away. Get that swagger going and build some attacking confidence and sky's the limit. Very rarely we win a game in the first 30 minutes as to allow some flair.
But as long as we are winning we shouldn't be disappointed and it's not a crime to complain about our lackluster performances despite what some say on this forum. We are a solid side with mountains of cash, we just need it to click in attack.
 

OK777

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I see either Dybala or Bale being the big signing for us this summer. But what will that mean for some other places?

After his most recent performance, how about Aaron Ramsey? May not start every game but will add really good squad depth. On his day he is a quality and I am pretty sure he has only 1 year left on his contract so won't cost too much.
 

matherto

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Mourinho has to have seen the game midweek and surely that's the way to play against City.

Have we got the players to do it? Not sure
Can we adapt and really go at them all game like Liverpool did? Not sure either

If he does park the bus and we inevitably get beaten then we've meekly surrendered to them and that'll be far worse than if it had happened before the Liverpool game.
 

Frank Grimes

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Mourinho has to have seen the game midweek and surely that's the way to play against City.

Have we got the players to do it? Not sure
Can we adapt and really go at them all game like Liverpool did? Not sure either

If he does park the bus and we inevitably get beaten then we've meekly surrendered to them and that'll be far worse than if it had happened before the Liverpool game.
That's what Liverpool train for every day of every week though, that's their style of play. We could try to replicate it but it would not be as effective as we are not usually coached like that.
 

Sky1981

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Why is playing entertaining football and winning titles mutually exclusive?
Man City have done it this year
Madrid & Barcelona do it year after year
PSG do it
Bayern Munich also do it

If all of those teams can do it, I don't think it's too much to expect out of the BIGGEST club in the world. Just saying...
It's not too much.

But if you're gonna think that sacking the best manager in the business after he won you 2 titles and finished 2nd and think that the next manager definitely is going to be an improvement you might be in for a surprise.
 

el3mel

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We were having a good season, but Sevilla was a massice set back and a complete feck up from Mourinho and his players. The only way to erase such a memory is by finishing 2nd and winning the cup, thus we can go to th next season with a positive attitude.
 

Marcky411

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CB: This has been a strange season. Bailly has been injured too much and Rojo hasn't recovered from injury. Lindelof hasn't settled and we have been left with Jones and Smalling. One of the chuckle brothers needs to go. We can't have the 2011 defense of Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Young if we are serious about winning the league. I personally would like Smalling to be replaced, Jones is more injury proned but is the better player in my opinion.
I see this point being continually made and I have got to think that Jose's negative/defensive tactics has washed off on a lot of fans. Since Jose has come in every transfer window he is looking for a CB, is this the position that really needs addressing. I understand we need coverage in all positions but at CB we have, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Lindelof, Blind and as rumours go we are in for another CB. How many FB's, DM's or even true strikers do we have(and I am not talking about players who can also play in those positions), has our defence been the issue for the past 3-4 years. Even under LvG out defence wasn't bad with Blind and Mike Smalling. We have been one of the few teams in the PL the last couple of years, that have had the least amount of goals conceded but yet we are still on about our defence and buying/replacing CD's.

Jose has had 4 transfer windows and not once has he addressed the FB positions or has thought of buying/replacing a Carrick type player who can control games. He has neither addressed the gaping hole on the RW. We have had Martial and Rashford for the LW, last year the whole summer we were after Perišić, who mainly plays as a LW, didn't get him so in January we go in for Sanchez who plays/wants to play on the LW.
Now it seems Jose's main concern is losing Fellaini, a player who has always been the number 1 player fans thought should never have come to Utd and should've been sold ages ago. Strange enough Jose has now convinced many fans that Fellaini is very important and we mustn't loose him. This is also a manager that has always said if a player wants to leave he won't try and keep them but boy oh boy what has he tried to keep Fellaini, go figure.
 

Crashoutcassius

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The only negativity stems from anyone being silly enough to take any notice of the press/media.
United are in 2nd place aiming for 82 points or thereabouts. This season that was only ever going to get 2nd place, good improvement on last few years.
Semi-finals of FA Cup.
Beaten by Seville in CL who could easily have drawn with Bayern this week and are not out of the tie yet. As I said after our defeat by Seville, they are a very good cup side, who nearly beat Barca last week. The reaction from media and some on this site was very disrespectful to Seville. Currently they are about the same standard as United, especially in big/cup games.
Not many people want to see Martial picked in front of either Sanchez or Rashford, he is totally overrated by some here.
Seville are a great cup side but we played poorly in that game and there's no real masking it
 

Marcky411

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It's not too much.

But if you're gonna think that sacking the best manager in the business after he won you 2 titles and finished 2nd and think that the next manager definitely is going to be an improvement you might be in for a surprise.
I see people saying this all the time, often pointing out that Jose has won the CL in 3 different countries with 3 different teams. Ancelotti has too won the CL 3x and if you look at his track record and what he has won with teams all over Europe, he too isn't shabby at all(except he goes along quietly doing the business) and he is available. Saying Jose is better than Pep seeing what he put together at Barcelona and now a City(obviously with a blank chequebook) and how improves players themselves, is a stretch. These 3 managers have won silverware wherever they have gone and will continue to do so. If we look at the cautious/defensive football Jose puts out compared to the football the other managers play then you come back to the point which a lot of fans are trying to make, you don't have to play this dire, slow, defensive cr@p which Jose is shovelling to win trophies.
 

Wumminator

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It's not too much.

But if you're gonna think that sacking the best manager in the business after he won you 2 titles and finished 2nd and think that the next manager definitely is going to be an improvement you might be in for a surprise.
We've finished second? Awesome! Good end to the season!
 

Sky1981

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I see people saying this all the time, often pointing out that Jose has won the CL in 3 different countries with 3 different teams. Ancelotti has too won the CL 3x and if you look at his track record and what he has won with teams all over Europe, he too isn't shabby at all(except he goes along quietly doing the business) and he is available. Saying Jose is better than Pep seeing what he put together at Barcelona and now a City(obviously with a blank chequebook) and how improves players themselves, is a stretch. These 3 managers have won silverware wherever they have gone and will continue to do so. If we look at the cautious/defensive football Jose puts out compared to the football the other managers play then you come back to the point which a lot of fans are trying to make, you don't have to play this dire, slow, defensive cr@p which Jose is shovelling to win trophies.
This is some simplicity thinking that are heralded by the anti Jose brigade, they think winning what he has won in football is just pure luck and easy because he plays defensive football. This sort of arrogant thinking the next manager would do exponentially better than Mourinho. They think United is too big to fail that all it takes is a modern young unproven manager to simply turn us into Barcelona. The same sort of thinking that makes you guys detest Mourinho and preferred Moyes.

And yes, he is one of the best active manager in the business second only to pep. You can't deny that no matter how hard you try.
 

togg

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I'm certainly feeling more negative towards this end of the season no matter where we end up. We are boring to watch. We have improved but not as much as I thought we would when Mourinho arrived. If (perish the thought) Liverpool won the CL and the Arse won the Europa then my personal negativity will sky rocket!!
 

Jeppers7

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The sooner people admit the problem is they dont like jose the sooner we can move on.

All this hilly billy negativity starts from there.

Shit football, outdated manager, past his sell date, etc are just the byproduct of it.

If this was moyes winning 2 cups and finishing 2nd most of us will think he's saf reincarnated.

I'd rather people just admit they dont like him. At least we got that one out in the open.

I like Jose. Always felt he was the right man to replace Saf.

His approach to big games needs to be better though. We are Manchester United. On the biggest stage with the world watching it's not good that we play such negative football as we do. The Europa League final as an example we should've looked leagues above Ajax. But we sat off and let them play. It's a hideous approach to a game we could've won any way we wanted.

He also needs to stop throwing players under the bus. His reaction to criticism recently has been childish and immature and it's that that we can't carry into another season.