The Decline of FC Barcelona?

[buckooo1978]

Barca's problem of late has been an over-reliance on Messi due to silly team selections

they really miss the cutting edge Villa gives them and if Fabregas plays it should be in place of Xavi or Busquets

Xavi isn't in great form and Puyol has never been a great defender

its not a decline - just time to freshen things up and get the tactics right

 

[Mockney]

Never out in the Last 16 of the Champions League though... although that is countered by winning the league.

They're not out.

 

[Cold_Boy]

They've shown nothing in the past five years to suggest they can simply buy players that will fit into their system of play. Alves has been the only 'outsider' that they've signed in recent years that you'd qualify as a success (Fabregas and Pique were practically raised at La Masia); as I've mentioned above, more of than not, when Barcelona get the chequebook out, they make a hames of it (see Ibrahimovic, Sanchez at al.)

The signings were wrong because of the football they play.

But they certainly can learn from their mistakes.

And yeah currently they dont have a manager?They were pretty good this season when Tito was there.

Also imo Barca need a defender and a striker to replace Villa or Villa back to his best.

 

[Sarni]

Maybe Pep was a decent coach afterall.

Nah, a kid could manage this team. Remember how dominant they were pre-Guardiola, winning the title comfortably.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Maybe Pep was a decent coach afterall.

Nah. Anyone can manage Barca.

 

[SteveJ]

I just wish they'd take a bloody shot once a month.

 

[RedLars]

They've had their ups and downs over the past few seasons as well. 2008-2009 was all conquering from them, 2009-2010 less so. 2010-2011 was again mindblowing stuff from them, while they were clearly not up for it in the league last season. The first half of this season they've looked stronger than ever before, but at the moment, they simply don't have a manager. How would you think we'd cope without ours? It's a bad run of form, unfortunately for them at a terrible time. They'll recover. With Xavi and others getting on a bit they'll probably never hit the heights of 2009 or 2011 again, but feck it you could be a few levels below that standard and still be one of the best teams in the world.

Yeah, that's exactly it though. They won't suddenly drop out of the Champions League, so as far as I'm concerned that's not really what's up for discussion either. It's only natural and inevitable that they will drop down a level from "possibly the best footballing side ever" to becoming just another one of the top sides competing for trophies at the highest level though, and personally I think that might be happening these days.

 

[Scrumpet]

They're done. It's over. Someone deliver the eulogy.

 

[Cheesy]

They're not in decline. They could quite easily turn the game against Milan around and they'd still be on for the double. Either way they're going to win the league and winning what would be 3 CL titles in 5 years is an incredibly difficult thing to do now anyway. If Vilanova can get back and keep going as manager, they'll be fine. Fact is at the moment they're still the best in the world comfortably.

 

[adexkola]

08-09: Champions
09-10: Semi finals
10-11: Champions
11-12: Semi finals

One hell of a run. I don't see them overturning the deficit against Milan while keeping a clean sheet.

 

[Rado_N]

John Toshack seems to agree with you.

 

[rcoobc]

They're not out.

I know, I know. But it's a steep task.

 

[bosnian_red]

They're in terrible form and you can't help but feel it looks to be a mental thing the way they've been setting out lately. Messi doesn't look arsed these days, walks around the center circle most of the time (still scores a goal pretty much every game because of how good he is of course) and some of their other key players are starting to decline, like Xavi, Puyol. They haven't seemed very motivated this past month, maybe complacency. Maybe it's even the case of Tito not being there.

Whatever the case, they definitely don't look anywhere near what they looked when they played us in 2009 and 2011.

 

[rcoobc]

08-09: Champions
09-10: Semi finals
10-11: Champions
11-12: Semi finals

One hell of a run. I don't see them overturning the deficit against Milan while keeping a clean sheet.

Exactly. This game could be seen a symptom of the same thing that stopped them beating Milan.

 

[RedLars]

They're not in decline. They could quite easily turn the game against Milan around and they'd still be on for the double. Either way they're going to win the league and winning what would be 3 CL titles in 5 years is an incredibly difficult thing to do now anyway. If Vilanova can get back and keep going as manager, they'll be fine. Fact is at the moment they're still the best in the world comfortably.

I think it'd be difficult to argue that point with much conviction if they do end up going out against Milan. They are certainly capable of turning it around though.

 

[Ish]

Decline? No. Serious issues which needs addressing - hell yes.

Their assistant coach looks clueless. Like a football dad coming to cheer on his kid.

 

[Brophs]

Where did it all go wrong, eh?

 

[Buchan]

The signings were wrong because of the football they play.

But they certainly can learn from their mistakes.

And yeah currently they dont have a manager?They were pretty good this season when Tito was there.

I agree 100%; those signings were wrong, or at least not given the chance to fully showcase their talents as Barcelona know only one way of playing the game. Some would say there's nothing wrong with that, others may see it as a weakness. Look at United, we've relied on pacy wingers for years but have signed players who excelled in different systems with different teams (Kagawa and van Persie in a 4-2-3-1 system with Dortmund and Arsenal respectively) and now we're much more tactically adept. We can seamlessly switch from playing a diamond formation without width to a side hugging the touchlines and attacking the wings at every opportunity. Not that we're the finished article or a team that Barcelona should be aspiring to being, but you cannot deny how flexible we are, and that's a great asset to possess.

It also begs the question: did the Barcelona scouts do their homework on those signings to see if they could adapt to their system? If not, why not? If they did, they were poor judgement calls. All-in-all, Barcelona haven't covered themselves in glory on the transfer front in recent years.

*I'd initially forgotten about Mascherano, who has been a relative success for them. However, he wasn't getting a game in the role he was purchased for, and only started to play when he was switched to centre-back due to injuries.

 

[adexkola]

They're not in decline. They could quite easily turn the game against Milan around and they'd still be on for the double. Either way they're going to win the league and winning what would be 3 CL titles in 5 years is an incredibly difficult thing to do now anyway. If Vilanova can get back and keep going as manager, they'll be fine. Fact is at the moment they're still the best in the world comfortably.

How so? Based on what?

 

[Cheesy]

They're in terrible form and you can't help but feel it looks to be a mental thing the way they've been setting out lately. Messi doesn't look arsed these days, walks around the center circle most of the time (still scores a goal pretty much every game because of how good he is of course) and some of their other key players are starting to decline, like Xavi, Puyol. They haven't seemed very motivated this past month, maybe complacency. Maybe it's even the case of Tito not being there.

Whatever the case, they definitely don't look anywhere near what they looked when they played us in 2009 and 2011.

They're not in 'terrible' form. They've had one spell of poor form due to one or two of their weaknesses prompting some to call them finished out of desperation.

Messi 'can't be arsed either' is nonsense. Players are allowed to have poor spells of form, you know, even him, and he's still comfortably the best footballer in the world.

 

[Cheesy]

How so? Based on what?

Not sure what exactly you were asking the question about here...

 

[wr8_utd]

Decline? Nonsense. But if they don't replace that woeful partnership at the back of Pique and Puyol, they're going to lose a lot more classicos in the near future.

 

[Arruda]

They're not out.

I think he knows that. But it's fair to assume they are.

Only once in the Champions League (since it's called Champions League) a team botched a 2-0 or better in the first leg (home). Actually that team was AC Milan, but it's still very unlikely.

Barcelona having the dodgiest defence among the top club in Europe, surely won't increase their odds.

If they turn it around, it will be nothing short of a spectacular and unlikely performance.

 

[Rado_N]

Not sure what exactly you were asking the question about here...

How are they still comfortably the best in the world, I'm guessing.

 

[Revan]

* The manager. In the beginning looked like Barca would cope well, but it could have been probably that Tito only continued Pep's work. Anyway, the momentum will not continue forever, and it's even worse that Tito is not even there.

* Xavi seems to be in decline, in fact even in last season he wasn't as good as in three years before.

* Their manager somehow has got the theory that converting the best midfielder in the world in a wide forward is a good idea.

* Everything should end. After 4 years when they were regarded as the best team ever, it's time to see a decline of them.

Anyway, they are still a great team, but I don't think that UCL will dominated by them in the next few years as it was during the Pep era. They still will be one of the best teams and they will fight for every trophy, but it is quite a possibility that the days when Barca were absolute favorites in every single match and for every possible trophy could be over.

 

[Ish]

Not sure what exactly you were asking the question about here...

You calling them the best team in the world "comfortably" I guess?

 

[adexkola]

Not sure what exactly you were asking the question about here...

What basis do they have for being the best team in the world?

 

[Rado_N]

We were right, Ish. *high five*

 

[Steven Seagull]

They missed a trick with Varane. He'd be a nice addition at the back with that pace. They're so susceptible to the counter attack when they're not 100% it's absurd. They look really jaded to me. It's an easy excuse but their movement and running off the ball has not been the same in recent weeks, and I don't think they press as intensely as they have done in the past.

 

[elisha27]

Have they declined? Maybe, slightly.

A step down from legendary is still brilliant though. Them being closer to the rest can only a good thing for competition though.

 

[bosnian_red]

They're not in 'terrible' form. They've had one spell of poor form due to one or two of their weaknesses prompting some to call them finished out of desperation.

Messi 'can't be arsed either' is nonsense. Players are allowed to have poor spells of form, you know, even him, and he's still comfortably the best footballer in the world.

I'm comparing they're current form to the Barcelona of the past 5 years. Pretty sure this counts as terrible form. Even in the games they've won they haven't looked the same. I'm not saying this is they're decline or whatever like the OP, but I think it's fair to say that they don't seem to be as invincible as before, and teams have a much better chance against them in the champions league.

Obviously messi is still the best player out there by a distance, and IMO the best ever but these past few matches when I've seen him, he just hasn't looked him usual self. Hasn't been as good on the ball, hasn't been busting a gut to get into an opening. It's just really weird seeing a player who has had pretty much 4 years of non stop amazing form, going through a bit of a blip.

 

[Cheesy]

What basis do they have for being the best team in the world?

They've consistently reached the latter stages of the Champions League in the past 5 years and have won more than anyone else in that period too. 5 years in a row at the semis. Even this season, they're running away with what's arguably the best league in the world and looking dominant while doing so. They have the best player in the world and looking at their side, I'm struggling to see a better one.

If someone like Bayern manage to win the Bundesliga and the Champions League while Barca go out to Milan, then there'd be a basis for saying they're better, but honestly, is there any side we can even argue are better than them right now? Only Bayern are close for me. Real Madrid may have won tonight but are comfortably behind in the league and may go out of the Champions League. Us and Juventus have a chance of the league and Champions League but are clearly inferior sides. Can't think of anyone else in there at all who you could argue are better than them or close.

 

[OGkush]

They are still a terrific team and will remain one, however first of all their style of play was bound to be somewhat "figured out" after them dominating with it for the past couple of years, and most of all, they don't have a freakin' manager.
They got a guy on the bench, that's all. The guy was a scout last year for christ sake, he has one plan and when that plan fails he has no idea what-so-ever about how to maybe change things around and try another tactic.

He's like the Spanish version of Hughes, except it's not as bad since he just became a coach as opposed to him. Proving people you CAN suck even with a great team/lots of money.

They're still more than capable of beating bottom teams, however when push comes to shove and they face a real opponent they crumble because of a lack of a manager.

 

[RedLars]

They've consistently reached the latter stages of the Champions League in the past 5 years and have won more than anyone else in that period too. 5 years in a row at the semis. Even this season, they're running away with what's arguably the best league in the world and looking dominant while doing so. They have the best player in the world and looking at their side, I'm struggling to see a better one.

If someone like Bayern manage to win the Bundesliga and the Champions League while Barca go out to Milan, then there'd be a basis for saying they're better, but honestly, is there any side we can even argue are better than them right now? Only Bayern are close for me. Real Madrid may have won tonight but are comfortably behind in the league and may go out of the Champions League. Us and Juventus have a chance of the league and Champions League but are clearly inferior sides. Can't think of anyone else in there at all who you could argue are better than them or close.

At the end of the day, quality is measured by what you achieve. Yes, they are running away with a La Liga in which Real have performed terribly under par this year. At the same time we are running away with the Premier League though, which is also arguably the best league in the world, and if you didn't catch the memo the treble is on

I see no reason for calling Barcelona comfortably the best team in the world if they go out to Milan in round of 16 of the CL after being thumped by their archest rivals in the Copa del Rey, even if they do win their domestic league convincingly.

 

[FortBoyard]

Were they ever really that good? lucky for me...

 

[shaggy]

Milan lost to a poor arsenal side 3-0 so they're more than capable of doing the same again. reckon barca will beat them easily at home.

 

[TheHorse'sMouth]

They've lost a bit of their fluidity in the final third, the passing isn't quick enough in that area, not enough runners to stretch a parked bus plus teams they've come up against recently are executing a tactical plan perfectly. Pretty much that, nothing major to be called a decline.

 

[Cheesy]

At the end of the day, quality is measured by what you achieve. Yes, they are running away with a La Liga in which Real have performed terribly under par this year. At the same time we are running away with the Premier League though, which is also arguably the best league in the world, and if you didn't catch the memo the treble is on

I see no reason for calling Barcelona comfortably the best team in the world if they go out to Milan in round of 16 of the CL after being thumped by their archest rivals in the Copa del Rey, even if they do win their domestic league convincingly.

A point that I made. Yes, they might not win the Champions League this year, but unless they fade away which is unlikely, their achievements will still mark them down as the best side of the past 5/6 years by a distance.

 

[Arruda]

Whether they're the best team in the world or not depends on the time spam you're analysing. Arguably any team can lose that "title" after a single loss if you want to be extremely reductive.

 

[RedLars]

They've lost a bit of their fluidity in the final third, the passing isn't quick enough in that area, not enough runners to stretch a parked bus plus teams they've come up against recently are executing a tactical plan perfectly. Pretty much that, nothing major to be called a decline.

Isn't that enough to call it a decline from "one of the best teams ever" though? I think the definition of decline needs to be clarified!