I won't be thinking about the route to the trophy when I tell my grand-kids in 40 years.
The "England have had it easy" narrative
- Thread starter Alex99
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Exactly. If it wasn't an easy route no one would have to post a 4,000 word essay explaining why it's not
I can't wait until they get knocked out. What a pathetic and drab team.
You are the most bitter and pathetic individual in this forum at the moment. At least it's banter with most of the others giving England a hard time. You are truly just a sad case.Keyboard warriors.
Guarantee same will happen with Croatia if England manage to beat them as well. Despite the fact that same Croatia side handily crushed Argentina in group stages. (not to mention Sweden was responsible for putting out Italy and Netherlands in group stages who were supposed to be "tougher" matchups)
Same. I'll be telling them that to reach the final we beat Colombia the masters of the dark arts, the strong and organised Swedes, and the creative and talented Croatia (who had the best midfielder in the tournament).
Since 1998 the following teams have reached the semi finals: Turkey, South Korea, Uruguay, Netherlands, Croatia (twice).
I do think we've got a good draw in the sense that we're not playing one of the favourites, and we should be pretty happy, but lots of finalists have also had easyish semi finals in the past.
i agree with you that england are having their first knockout opponent that isnt easy
It would have been more difficult if the so called 'good teams' hadn't been shit and got knocked out.
Their fault, not ours.
Their fault, not ours.
This is how I'd rate our opponents (and possible opponents) out of 10:
- Tunisia 5/10
- Panama 2/10
- Belgium B Team - Doesn't Count
- Colombia 7/10
- Sweden 6/10
- Croatia 8/10
- France/Belgium 9/10
Aside from fact that uruguay and Netherlands are not easy games (and played eachother), its not really relevant, its a separate stand alone point to say that on top of easy qualifying, laughable group and straightforward knockouts england have a tricky semi final- though not bad for this stage of competition. Im not detracting or saying other teams havent had similar games in the past
It is relevant because teams have arguably had easier semi finals in the past than England currently do. Worst teams have reached the semi final than this current Croatian team.
I think we agree though. A tricky game for England, but couldn't have really hoped for much better.
My point is England have to deal with teams that finish better than those 2
I love the denial. Just because big teams have been crap against minnows, does not mean the minnows are all dangerous. This has been England's easiest ever route probably. Southgate and the team decided to take the easier route by going second in a useless group so that they have a better route to semis. And so far it has worked well.
I don't mind all such tricks. It is not cheap or illegal. Except certain English fans hypocricy to call out other team tactics as cowardice, when their NT took the easiest route, there is no problem. FIFA made such a route available and England NT took it. Fair fecks.
I don't see why fans should feel ashamed or try to create a new narrative that it was some kind of tough route.
I hope Croats put in a real tough match. England need to come out winning in a hard test if they want any chance to defeat France or Belgium in the final.
I don't mind all such tricks. It is not cheap or illegal. Except certain English fans hypocricy to call out other team tactics as cowardice, when their NT took the easiest route, there is no problem. FIFA made such a route available and England NT took it. Fair fecks.
I don't see why fans should feel ashamed or try to create a new narrative that it was some kind of tough route.
I hope Croats put in a real tough match. England need to come out winning in a hard test if they want any chance to defeat France or Belgium in the final.
So England's road would have been harder if they had to face the teams that lost to the teams they have and will knock out if they are to reach the final. Flawless logic.
so south korea is better than germany. flawless logic
If we got Sweden in the last 16 and Columbia in the quarters I think the outlook would have been different. Sweden for the quarters was an easy game, but we did very well to beat Columbia in the last 16.
Now Croatia in the semis again is probably quarters standard in my opinion. But Croatia have been great this tournament. Fully deserving to get to the semis. If we beat them to the final we’re fully deserving.
Now Croatia in the semis again is probably quarters standard in my opinion. But Croatia have been great this tournament. Fully deserving to get to the semis. If we beat them to the final we’re fully deserving.
Football is a results oriented business so who is better than who on paper means sweet feck all.
It's clearly an easy route. You spent all that text countering something factual.
The England team, midfield especially has gotten better. Playing almost 2 matches per week has got the team to gel.
I see no reason why England would not have beaten Germany or Brazil.
The Italy of 1982 were dire in the group stages. Just scrapped through.
Magnificient later on. Totaly destroying Germany in the final.
Man for man Crotia have a better midfield. But that is not how it works.
Southgate has built a Team. Trusting the players. We can see it. Players seem better than they have been for their clubs.
That is the key.
I see no reason why England would not have beaten Germany or Brazil.
The Italy of 1982 were dire in the group stages. Just scrapped through.
Magnificient later on. Totaly destroying Germany in the final.
Man for man Crotia have a better midfield. But that is not how it works.
Southgate has built a Team. Trusting the players. We can see it. Players seem better than they have been for their clubs.
That is the key.
It's almost like a video game where difficulty level is going up incrementally and the final boss fight is going to be the hardest one.
Youre ignoring that they drew the easiest of 3rd and 4th seeds and made a tricky job of beating one of them. Not only could they have had a way harder group but it also means some tougher teams may have made it through other groups due to having an easier draw. Because a team went out does not make them a bad team.
England could have had a group of belgium serbia and egypt, just as an example.
England could also have failed to make the semi finals.
But they didn't. They are in the semi finals of a world cup.
what your golden generation would have done for a draw like that......
I think people are a little concerned confused in regards to how a tournament works. I've also apparently missed all those world cups in which the winner won every game 4-0. Doesn't sound all that entertaining tbh.
Saw a post the other day saying something along the lines of "would players such as Lampard, Gerrard and Beckham be making the same amount of runs, showing the same level of movement, and be creating the space and options that a lot of boys in the team are currently doing"
I have to say I agree. Even with the same draw, with the golden generation we'd still be relying on individuals to step up, rather than just being the better team and playing decent football. If those players were coached correctly though, they could have got to a final, and will always be a bit of a regret that they didn't.
Sweden aren’t weak. They qualified top of a group containing Germany. They also beat a Swiss team that Brazil couldn’t beat
no we get it. every tournament due to variance and other factors some team has an easy route. this year its england that has it
I wonder how many posters in the crowd defending England's path moaned about Liverpool's path in the CL run. I see parallels in both cup runs.
A team can only beat the actual opposition not hypotheticals and what ifs, and the England/Croatia side of the bracket wasn't overly strong partly due to a few top class nations falling out.
Figure they'll lose to Croatia anyhow, and the Belgium/France winner is probably taking the trophy regardless of the final opponent.
A team can only beat the actual opposition not hypotheticals and what ifs, and the England/Croatia side of the bracket wasn't overly strong partly due to a few top class nations falling out.
Figure they'll lose to Croatia anyhow, and the Belgium/France winner is probably taking the trophy regardless of the final opponent.
To call this an easy run is to overrate the “big” teams and underrate the “small” teams.
Can’t think of a route to the trophy if there is no route to the trophy
I mean, we can rate all these NT however we want all day long
How I see this is that, despite there is indeed some difference in terms of players' quality between teams, let's not forget that these "easy opponent" also did their hard work to come all the way through.
A simple example would be (probably a bit over but you get the idea), if the final is England vs HongKong, will you say England has an easy final, given how Hong Kong team fought their way through these other "giants" team? At least I don't think Southgate will then go: "go out and have fun guys, its just Hong Kong, I got no instruction for you."
And this is why football is such a fantastic sport, because a team with no superstar can beat any other teams with correct tactics and teamwork. So, regardless of the route being easy or not, England team deserves all the applaud for getting this far!
How I see this is that, despite there is indeed some difference in terms of players' quality between teams, let's not forget that these "easy opponent" also did their hard work to come all the way through.
A simple example would be (probably a bit over but you get the idea), if the final is England vs HongKong, will you say England has an easy final, given how Hong Kong team fought their way through these other "giants" team? At least I don't think Southgate will then go: "go out and have fun guys, its just Hong Kong, I got no instruction for you."
And this is why football is such a fantastic sport, because a team with no superstar can beat any other teams with correct tactics and teamwork. So, regardless of the route being easy or not, England team deserves all the applaud for getting this far!
next world cup fifa should use the blockchain to decide the bracket
The reason why people care is because most will do what ever they can just so they don't have to say "England is a good team"
Obviously. These ancillary narratives during the tournament will be long forgotten by then. The only things that will be remembered are who won, who won golden boot, and a few memorable goals.
@Jonno
I won't be thinking about the route to the trophy when I tell my grand-kids in 40 years
Yep that's what I think., 66 wasn't perfect but it was really
When I tell my grandkids about the tone we won the world cup..
It is gonna be awesome.
I won't be thinking about the route to the trophy when I tell my grand-kids in 40 years
Yep that's what I think., 66 wasn't perfect but it was really
When I tell my grandkids about the tone we won the world cup..
It is gonna be awesome.
Yes they are. Congratulations to them. Threads like this wouldnt exist if people weren't so defensive about the reality that their route has been straightforward. Not a criticism, just a fact. If they had topped the group then seen Belgium breeze to the final fans would be lamenting their tough side of the draw. People get too defensive about fans making the same point they would make of any team
@SER19 if memory serves, there were plenty preferring Belgium to top the group as it set up a potentially easier path on the other side of the bracket for the group runnerup. Further backs up your post.
Sure, it's been easier than it could have been, but let's embrace that. It's not like it's our fault. Maybe if Spain and Germany could have beaten some of those 'easier' teams, or if Italy and the Netherlands had actually made it here in the first place, we might have had a more 'difficult' route, but hey ho.