The English contingent at our club

[Van Piorsing]

Since Carrick retired, it's been terrible. English players I remembered didn't take shit from anybody and were smart enough to not care about life of twitter. Apart from Sancho we've been signing all the wrong ones. Lazy culture of football with not enough brains to play something complex and more adventurous.

Ten Hag needs to kill it with fire and start something better.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

England finished below Costa Rica in the qualifiers at the 2014 World Cup and were eliminated by Iceland at the 2016 Euros
The national team has clearly massively improved since then and is now consistently reaching the latter stages of tournaments
Bizarre to downplay that improvement tbh. England quite clearly have a reasonably good selection of players right now

The poster was talking about England when it had many United players who were professional and highly thought of, comparing with the current crop. That was not 2014, more like 1998 - 2010 at the latest.

England had a "good selection of players" during the golden generation too. That isn't the point.

I don't think it's Bizarre to point out some of the easy runs England have had.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Who managed to take these players to 2nd in the table ?

Please don’t

 

[PSV]

It is not nonsense; he is actually quite correct. There is an anti-English sentiment amongst fans on here.

Case in point, I remember in one game last season we fielded no English players and won. There was a thread created about it and people were getting giddy about; it was filled with people not wanting to play English players. They were trying to put all the blame for the season on the English players - and there were quite a lot of posters that displayed this anti-Englishness. Funnily enough, though, we played the same team again and got battered the second time, but people don't learn and we are back to trying to pin all the blame on the English players.

There was all that nonsense about Brexit FC that one transfer window, also, even though we tried to sign Dybala in that same window. It was a weird thing to get upset by and does show signs of anti-british sentiment.

I remember all the Ole out guys, I guess they must be anti-Norwegian. Still right though.

 

[santeria13]

No I believe your point is bollocks. You are singling out certain players based on no evidence. You refer to poor performance over a period of time yet Shaw had his best season prior to last season. All the other players also played well. You are focusing on certain players due to having an agenda when the whole team was poor last season.

I realised I didn't add Sancho to that list of players with a good attitude, but I like him and see both ability and the right attitude from him. He had a poor season but it was his first season in a new club

As for the rest - Shaw had one good season out of what, 7 or 8? He also shows up to every pre-season completely out of shape, which shows a lack of professionalism. I don't care how much you want to party during summer. If I can keep myself in shape for free, then you should be able to do that as bare minimum for a professional footballer earning millions a year. How can you even defend this guy?

As for Rashford, he literally got outran by a 37 year old Ronaldo in 2 or 3 games last season, with the stats to back it up. Are you telling me this isn't an attitude problem?

Ok, to be fair to Maguire, I think he tries but he is just mentally weak and couldn't handle the criticism. Hence why every time he didn't play awful, he came out and posted a personal highlight reel on twitter. That is not how someone who actually believes in themselves acts.

Henderson - Decided he couldn't be bothered to prove himself and fight for a place under a new manager and slagged off United at the first opportunity once he got his loan move. Great attitude? I think not.

Have I missed anyone?

 

[wangyu]

Check every line up in the EPL you won’t often find teams fielding more than 4 Englishmen. Most of them are just bang average. I find it an incredibly achievement what Southgate did with them on 2 consecutive big tournaments.

As long as English players don’t start playing abroad en masse they will never get better.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

Shaw is the one that bugs me the most ever since that comment he made on England duty about 'feeling more loved with England'. Weak attitude, get out and take your tiramisu chef with you. Also noticed the lineup was leaked early today, not naming names but guess who is top suspect.

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

As a wise young fan once said, "They're all rubbish."

 

[ObscureBaguette]

Check every line up in the EPL you won’t often find teams fielding more than 4 Englishmen. Most of them are just bang average. I find it an incredibly achievement what Southgate did with them on 2 consecutive big tournaments.

As long as English players don’t start playing abroad en masse they will never get better.

This is interesting, actually. I look at France, which is a conveyer belt of quality footballers. Nobody in France seriously expects their best players to stay in France unless they play for PSG. It's a country with a relatively weak league that produces so many quality players. It's a bit different in Spain, Germany and Italy, where the domestic leagues are stronger and top players don't necessarily move abroad as much as with France, but even so, it's still common. Perhaps English players do need to do the same. I think we're seeing signs that English players are more prepared to do this, but not en masse as of yet. Would it strengthen the national team? Perhaps that's not a relevant question for this thread.

 

[MoskvaRed]

The poster was talking about England when it had many United players who were professional and highly thought of, comparing with the current crop. That was not 2014, more like 1998 - 2010 at the latest.

England had a "good selection of players" during the golden generation too. That isn't the point.

I don't think it's Bizarre to point out some of the easy runs England have had.

England were semi-finalists in 2018 and finalists in 2021. That is a better record than any other European team. I would not argue that they are the best ((that’s probably France) and I don’t expect great things in Qatar but to say that they are not even “good“ is ridiculous. if England were flukes across those two tournaments, then what were Italy last year after two world cups in a row where they can’t even qualify)?

 

[Suedesi]

feckin hell the little Englanders are out force.

Don't slag our boys, they're English and therefore honest, hard working lads

 

[Greck]

OP raised a worrying issue. Can't say he's unfairly highlighting their nationality when their nationality is why the squad was built around so many of them in the first place. Entering the summer of 2020 it was well reported we wanted to replicate Fergie's British core, we would proceed to confirm with out actions over the next couple weeks. Problem was it was done by amateurs and created an air of entitlement around them. Who ever heard of becoming a captain on day 1? They cant even sit on the bench without spiting the club.

Nationality should have been the last filter, the tipping edge not the first and foremost. James then AWB and Maguire are now on their way out of the XI. Sancho is the only one SAF would have bought. The rest who were inherited and not bought were given status and assurances beyond their talent. This Henderson thing is getting tedious and there's no way Rashford should be constantly using the media like a superstar when he's in terrible form.

Edit and yes the portugese contingent acan re also be problematic, it's just there are only 3 of them, have carried us in small doses in back to back seasons and if we're even being honest, get just as much flack, I mean look at the Ronaldo, bruno and Dalot threads before this week. Just that they are too few to be labelled a faction problem but they generally don't get a pass regardless

 

[littlepeasoup]

Personally think it’s a bit odd specifically calling out a group of individuals based solely on their nationality when, let’s be honest, any of the criticisms levelled against them could be levelled against basically every player we’ve signed over the last 10 years.

I could rattle off a list of awful players we’ve had, but it wouldn’t be based on their nationality, but that we’ve been a broken club over the last decade with no clear direction or recruitment strategy, chopping and changing managers at will. We’ve also clearly lacked decent pastoral care for the younger players we’ve integrated into the squad.

I think it’s a pretty lazy equivalency, bordering on xenophobic - something I would believe had the topic been about any nationality. You chose your bias and then make your argument to fit it.

 

[Greck]

Personally think it’s a bit odd specifically calling out a group of individuals based solely on their nationality when, let’s be honest, any of the criticisms levelled against them could be levelled against basically every player we’ve signed over the last 10 years.

I could rattle off a list of awful players we’ve had, but it wouldn’t be based on their nationality, but that we’ve been a broken club over the last decade with no clear direction or recruitment strategy, chopping and changing managers at will. We’ve also clearly lacked decent pastoral care for the younger players we’ve integrated into the squad.

I think it’s a pretty lazy equivalency, bordering on xenophobic - something I would believe had the topic been about any nationality. You chose your bias and then make your argument to fit it.

Think of it like this. Are homegrown regulations also xenophobic? No, only if one ignores the valid policy reasons behind them. There's nothing wrong with wanting a British core. There's also nothing wrong with highlighting when it has been implemented with the wrong types of players.

 

[SmallCaine]

Personally think it’s a bit odd specifically calling out a group of individuals based solely on their nationality when, let’s be honest, any of the criticisms levelled against them could be levelled against basically every player we’ve signed over the last 10 years.

I could rattle off a list of awful players we’ve had, but it wouldn’t be based on their nationality, but that we’ve been a broken club over the last decade with no clear direction or recruitment strategy, chopping and changing managers at will. We’ve also clearly lacked decent pastoral care for the younger players we’ve integrated into the squad.

I think it’s a pretty lazy equivalency, bordering on xenophobic - something I would believe had the topic been about any nationality. You chose your bias and then make your argument to fit it.

Except their nationality means they specifically don't feel the sting of their mediocre performances from the media. Until these last 2 games, a good chunk of our fans and most of English media always found a way to criticize maguire's partner more than he was for our poor defensive performances. If Luke shaw was a foreigner he would have destroyed for his laziness and lax attitude on fitness but because he is English he can get away with minimal scrutiny.

Maguire can spout any bs he wants after a bad performance rarely taking any actual responsibility because he knows the media won't call him out on it. A lindelof or varane or martinez don't have this luxury.

 

[littlepeasoup]

Except their nationality means they specifically don't feel the sting of their mediocre performances from the media. Until these last 2 games, a good chunk of our fans and most of English media always found a way to criticize maguire's partner more than he was for our poor defensive performances. If Luke shaw was a foreigner he would have destroyed for his laziness and lax attitude on fitness but because he is English he can get away with minimal scrutiny.

Maguire can spout any bs he wants after a bad performance rarely taking any actual responsibility because he knows the media won't call him out on it. A lindelof or varane or martinez don't have this luxury.

Thank god Twitter exists, eh? So we can all hurl abuse at anyone regardless of their nationality.

 

[littlepeasoup]

Think of it like this. Are homegrown regulations also xenophobic? No, only if one ignores the valid policy reasons behind them. There's nothing wrong with wanting a British core. There's also nothing wrong with highlighting when it has been implemented with the wrong types of players.

Probably yes, but thankfully you can count as homegrown regardless of your nationality.

 

[lysglimt]

Please don’t

What - stating a fact ?

 

[Fitchett]

Bunch of bad eggs aren’t? Mixture of apathetic performances, poor attitude, laziness or just downright difficult personality.

I get the feeling they have this entitled attitude, and it could be down to us rewarding mediocrity with massive bloated contracts. This, plus relative success internationally, seems like it has gone to their heads.

I remember Steven Gerrard saying that everytime he went to England training camp, the English players from Man Utd were a cut above in terms of training, attitude and professionalism. They would stick together off the pitch too as they felt it gave them that competitive edge when international breaks resumed. Lampard and Rio have talked about this extensively when it was us and Chelsea competing year in year out. Seems like we’re so far removed from that ideal with this current bunch.

Rashford - his attitude is awful. Doesn’t look like he tries or cares anymore, and the quality is just not there. The sooner we get him to a new club and replace his minutes with Gakpo/Memphis, we’ll be better for it.

Shaw - 8 seasons at the club and we’ve had maybe, if we’re being generous, 1.5 seasons worth of genuine quality. Average, lazy in his play and doesn’t push himself to be better. I said in another thread, the way he comes across it seems like he sees football as just a job, and doesn’t really want to push himself to be better.

Maguire - he just isn’t good enough. I thought he was good in his first season, ok overall in his second, and a disaster in his third. But for a club captain, and someone that should lead from the front he should be doing a lot better. I genuinely think his overall attitude is good, it’s just his application isn’t great. Also he doesn’t interview at all well, and would be better putting his head down and improving rather than speaking.

Henderson - just a gobshite. Hope he does well at Forest though and they come in with a nice offer of £25m. I wanted him to be our number 1 instead of DdG but it seems he’s burning those bridges with the club.

AWB - I think he’s good enough to play Carabao Cup and Europa group stages, but the overall quality is just not there. He doesn’t seem like a difficult personality unlike the above 4 (seems to have a quiet persona) but yea, he’s pretty poor and the fact that we paid £45m is mental.

Sancho - no complaints. He’s a baller, and I think as this team improves in terms of cohesiveness and overall play, so will he. Also feel that as he spent most of the last 4-5 years in Germany, he‘s a bit removed from it all.

Greenwood - so promising. Wasted his talent and career.

Lingard - thank feck he’s gone.

Interested to hear what others think.

Absolutely spot on assessment pal.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

England were semi-finalists in 2018 and finalists in 2021. That is a better record than any other European team. I would not argue that they are the best ((that’s probably France) and I don’t expect great things in Qatar but to say that they are not even “good“ is ridiculous. if England were flukes across those two tournaments, then what were Italy last year after two world cups in a row where they can’t even qualify)?

The current England style of play is dire. They may have ground out some results against relatively easy opposition for the most part the last couple of tournaments but it won't last imo.

 

[wangyu]

Individually none of these players in the national team belong to the world elite of players. I don’t see a golden generation, I see the weakest England team of my lifetime. That literally these bunch gets the best results in 30 years is for me a miracle.
This means you can make a good team out of 11 average players Or I am severely underrating them.

 

[Will Singh]

Bunch have lazy privileged pricks and I’m talking about Maguire, Shaw and Rashford. They literally at one point felt like they got picked for being English or in Rashy’s case because he’s Mancunian. I’ve seen English players at other clubs and they don’t behave like that.

 

[Kopral Jono]

I have hope in Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Rashford. We've seen what they're able to do and I think it's important for us to have a team where English/British players feature prominently. Maguire, on the other hand, is a massive cause for concern. It boggles my mind still that our former genius of a manager gave him the club captaincy just SIX MONTHS after he signed for us. He hasn't been remotely up to scratch since day one and in an ideal world we must get rid.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Whilst we’re talking about lazy feckers with an attitude problem, can’t believe we’re now pinning our hopes on martial to be number nine for the season. My bowels have more explosive movement than he does.

And thanks the lord we’re now rid of Pogba. 130M in fees and wages and all we got was hairstyles, drama and a load of subpar performances

That’s it….I’m off to create a ‘French contingent at our club’ thread

 

[Escobar]

Some of then are decent players but not sure they got the message after all. But competition and EtH being tough might get their butts moving, otherwise we just sell them

 

[#07]

It wasn't mistaken to try and create a British core at the heart of our squad. English players are less likely to want to move abroad once they hit their peaks and they're more likely to see United as the pinnacle.

However, we have once again been failed by our recruitment department. If we went through 800 right backs and settled on the one guy who can barely dribble, nevermind cross, something is terribly wrong. Likewise, there are British centre backs with recovery pace. We just signed the one that didn't. Shaw we bought for potential but it was clear years ago he'd never be consistent. Yet we gave him a new fat deal.

I don't know about attitudes but, in terms of quality, they're just not upto it.

 

[AndySmith1990]

They think they are far better than they actually are. A good dose of humility and work ethic would sort them out. Rashford is the worst of the lot. You'd think after his upbringing and his school meals endeavor he would be the most grounded, as he would appreciate what he has and continue to work hard for the privilege. But he's just a lazy arse who behaves like he has nothing left to prove

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Watching Malacia for two games made me think how the feck we've stuck with Luke Shaw's lazy ass for so long.

 

[EtH]

I have hope in Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Rashford. We've seen what they're able to do and I think it's important for us to have a team where English/British players feature prominently. Maguire, on the other hand, is a massive cause for concern. It boggles my mind still that our former genius of a manager gave him the club captaincy just SIX MONTHS after he signed for us. He hasn't been remotely up to scratch since day one and in an ideal world we must get rid.

Hope that we get decent fees for them ?

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

My take away from this and some other similar threads is there seems to be a weirdly large group of fans who support our English club that seem to actively hate the English, somebody above even seems to have a problem with Mancunians. You guys are fecking weird. Or there must be some place in the world where which club you support is mandated rather than you being able to choose one for yourself.

I'm glad someone else has noticed this. It's bizarre. Not necessarily saying OP is like this but I've seen a fair bit of it on the site.

 

[EtH]

My take away from this and some other similar threads is there seems to be a weirdly large group of fans who support our English club that seem to actively hate the English, somebody above even seems to have a problem with Mancunians. You guys are fecking weird. Or there must be some place in the world where which club you support is mandated rather than you being able to choose one for yourself.

I'm glad someone else has noticed this. It's bizarre. Not necessarily saying OP is like this but I've seen a fair bit of it on the site.

Yes because we all hated Rooney and Neville and Rio and Scholes. Has absolutely nothing to do with this lot’s lack of mentality and/or quality. Or just how generally fecking unlikeable they all are.

 

[Pat Cat]

The Sancho love in this thread, and indeed the forum as a whole, is really hilarious. He's not even close to hitting the highs Maguire and Shaw have for either us or the national team, and as for his attitude... constantly out of shape. Was fat to start last season, slightly better this season but still gets subbed off 65 mins into every game cos he visibly fades and can't run for a full game. Bash Maguire and Shaw all you want but he's much worse than both

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I have hope in Shaw, Wan Bissaka and Rashford. We've seen what they're able to do and I think it's important for us to have a team where English/British players feature prominently. Maguire, on the other hand, is a massive cause for concern. It boggles my mind still that our former genius of a manager gave him the club captaincy just SIX MONTHS after he signed for us. He hasn't been remotely up to scratch since day one and in an ideal world we must get rid.

I also don't understand how he kept him as captain after Mykonos. It was disgraceful behaviour for a United captain.

 

[phelans shorts]

I also don't understand how he kept him as captain after Mykonos. It was disgraceful behaviour for a United captain.

I would just love to hear what you’d have done in that situation.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I would just love to hear what you’d have done in that situation.

It's not rocket science mate. He should've changed the captain at the club.

 

[phelans shorts]

It's not rocket science mate. He should've changed the captain at the club.

I obviously meant in Maguire’s situation in Greece.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

I obviously meant in Maguire’s situation in Greece.

Maybe not go abroad during a global pandemic (covid was not under control then, remember) and risk spreading it back to the club. Maybe, as captain, set an example.

If you do go abroad, maybe don't get involved in those types of situations. Stay in your multimillion villa.

Context is key.

 

[The Corinthian]

It's not rocket science mate. He should've changed the captain at the club.

 

[phelans shorts]

Maybe not go abroad during a global pandemic (covid was not under control then, remember) and risk spreading it back to the club. Maybe, as captain, set an example.

If you do go abroad, maybe don't get involved in those types of situations. Stay in your multimillion villa.

Context is key.

So don’t go on holiday (as was legally fully permitted as Greece was a green list country at the time, remember, he didn’t do a Wan-Bissaka) during the three weeks he was permitted to take a break. Then if you do lock yourself in a bubble (having already been locked in an anxiety inducing bubble for ages) even though there was no requirement to do so at that stage?

Your total lack of knowledge of the context of which you speak is quite something.

 

[The Corinthian]

Yes because we all hated Rooney and Neville and Rio and Scholes. Has absolutely nothing to do with this lot’s lack of mentality and/or quality. Or just how generally fecking unlikeable they all are.

I think this sums it up. Fans will always be on your side if you put the hard yards in and fight for the shirt. Even if you’re not a top quality footballer.

When Rooney wanted to leave the second time (when Moyes took over), his first game back I think was against Chelsea. And he ran up and down the pitch like a man possessed. It instantly got the fans back on his side, or at least sympathetic to his side. Effort, hard work, work rate - whatever you want to call it - that needs to be the foundation of a footballer.

There’s a well known football phrase - hard work trumps talent.

I don’t see the hard work with the likes of Shaw, Maguire and Rashford. They talk the talk but walking the walk is a separate thing. They come across as rather entitled, but they have nothing to show for it.