It was a good PR job for Suarez himself as he came out of with most people thinking it wasn't as bad as it actually was, but was terrible PR for Liverpool the club.God no
The Evra-Suarez Judgement
- Thread starter VidaRed
- Start date
It's us, the FA will make an example out of us and ban Cavani for a few games.
What did Kuyt do?
Can't remember why but I always felt that he and Alonso were the only decent folks in that Liverpool team.
suarez tried to 'reconcile' a racially charged standoff by pinching evra's arm. you know, to diffuse the situation
In short people, don’t compare it to Cavani. I’m sure it’s what OP means too.
not sure how anyone can conclude the 2 incidents are any where near the same one is after a clash between 2 players and the other is a tweet on social media to a friend, if anything you would compare it to the bernando silva incident a few seasons back, when he done something similar cant remember the exact details.
Random question: Why is Evra fluent in Spanish? Was simply good in school/has talent for languages or some other reason/background?
Seems he has a talent for languages like Lukaku. Evra knows Italian (was at Italian club early in his career), French (native language), English, Portuguese and Spanish. My guess is he learned Portuguese to converse with Ronaldo and Nani, and Spanish to converse with his friend Tevez who struggled to pick up English/didn't bother.
I remember before the verdict, they were arguing that he was using the word 'negrito' which would have been used in a more affectionate manner, but the judgment put that in the shit as he said 'negro'. Think they still argued that Evra was lying, despite Comolli and Kuyt backing him up, and the judgment saying that Suarez was very inconsistent whereas Evra was more reliable.
Only just realised that the FA’s acting chairman, Peter McCormick, was Suárez’s legal representative in 2011.
Cue Twilight Zone music.
Cue Twilight Zone music.
This would seem to be favorable for Cavani, yes ?
Why not just all hate Suarez instead?
In fairness, he didn’t say he was trying to defuse it nor (on his account) was it racially charged. He said his intention was to show Evra that he was not untouchable as they were arguing about a foul.
However, Evra’s account was frankly a lot more believable and it’s Suarez, so not a surprise that the disciplinary panel basically didn’t accept anything he said.
Cavani’s situation is very different as there is no dispute about what happened and nor can there really be any dispute, given context, that he wasn’t intending to cause offence. My suspicion is that it will be a 3 match ban regardless - but probably not if the recipient was white (which I’ve seen suggested elsewhere) as the FA won’t be able to show that the comment was related to skin colour.
Hopefully he goes into this with a decent understanding of the issue and should be sympathetic, but in reality I've no idea how close he would be to individual disciplinary cases.
If someone think the Suarez‘s case is the same as Cavani’s case then they need to be educated. Simple. Beside, remember, Liverpool fans were actually saying that Evra was liar and Suarez didn’t say the word. Suarez didn’t want to admit it and even apologised before the ban. Denying and lying what you said is even worse.
He was the guy told Michael Duberry to lie in court for Woodgate and Bowyer when they were accused of a racial attack on an Asian student
Yeah. surprised they considered the advice from the European body and seemed to base the decision on the authority of them as opposed to their own British interpretation. Was actually much more thorough and I give them more respect.
A rough US translation can be tricky. Saying "boy" to a black person in the US is straight racist. I understand Negrito was first used to describe Phillipino men who were short in stature but dark skinned. I appreciate what your brother in law says completely as it can be unusual and annoying to be addressed based off your race all the time, especially if you are not from there. His voice is definitely heard here by me and it makes sense. Although I speak Spanish I too would probably find it weird to be addressed as the black guy in the group, all the time if I was in Spain. That said Negrito is an idiom and Cavani's mate was actually white so it carries a different meaning to the idea of being a "little black boy" etc. The word Negrito can be used for non black folk, couples, or mean darling or sweetheart. Grandparents say it to their grandchildren etc. Something to consider.
in Dr Sabatini's example, one has to make the assumption that being black is offensive. If you call someone the fact or skinny one, then that could be offensive if being fat or skinny is seen as undesirable. Blackness may not be seen as undesirable to them so where is the offense in being called black as a nickname with ito/ita attached? maybe I am being precious here
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Christ that case was 20 years ago now. Seems Duberry said he'd lied in his statement and thought about changing it, but McCormick advised him not to. Slight difference, but he still got charged with malpractice, although it didn't stick.
Either way, the FA's due diligence shown to be non-existent by appointing him as vice chair.
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8999057/amp/SPORTS-AGENDA-Michael-Duberry-opens-Leeds-infamous-nightclub-scandal.html
They got what they wanted. 9 years later and most people seem to think Suarez got suspended because he used the term Cavani did at the weekend. They lost the battle but won the war. The fact Suarez was suspended was a minor setback for them. It didn't do them lasting reputational damage. The English press still worships at the altar of Anfield and treats everything Klopp does as if its Divinely inspired. Basically every journalist in the country celebrated their title win. The press was full of gushing tributes. Their acolytes dominate the airways. ESPN is basically Liverpool TV. I could go on.
Won the warIf you win things nobody cares. They may as well have put no effort in, and they'd still get adulation after winning stuff. Their manager behaving like a clown and getting everyone to wear shirts was laughable and nothing they did was excellent PR unless shooting both your feet constitutes that. But one incident was never going to define an entire club and one with a huge following.
Still can't understand how Woodgate and Bowyer got away with that. Horrible attack and the two of them should have been jailed and banned for life from the game
It's the FA vs United. I expect a 15 match ban.
A lot of European players speak multiple languages. Gullit is fluent in 5 languages.
Father was a diplomat and he moved around Europe a bit as a kid.
Yeah it was brutal and shocker Bowyer was cleared. Agree they deserved jail time. Bowyer in particular was always an odious cnut.
No idea exactly how fluent he is in Spanish - but speaking both French and Italian would certainly help.
Also - he clearly wasn't fluent in the lingo at the time of the incident, as certain parts of Suarez' dialogue wasn't clear to him (as per the statements in court).
Spanish isn't Spanish either - some differences there between Spanish speaking countries (and even regions within Spain itself).
I think it's still bad press after a night he should have had attention for all the good things he did. It creates tension and a reason for the media to yap. Suggestions about learning and the need to understand cultures is hypocrisy at its finest. Any ban is out of question. However this is English FA we are talking about so you never know.
Given Uruguay has had notable issues with racism (just like every other country pretty much), it's pretty apparent why people people consider it offensive. Black people have not had the easiest time of things.
Bowyer, Woodgate and the Leeds crew were a special breed...
True but isn't it about the attitude of people today? I don't take any negative to being a black man. Once upon a time, all things black were bad and negative in the Western world yet now you see so many other races imitating aspects of black culture and in many ways "acting black" if that is such a thing. It is much more trendy to be a black person in my generation than in my dads generation, for example. But then there is the issue of other races being referred to as el chino etc. Do the Chinses also have a bad history in Hispanic countries or is simply labelling non white people off ethnicity, something they (hispanics) just do?
I can't speak for your experiences, but the black population in Uruguay is at a significant disadvantage socially and economically relative to the rest of the population (not to single out Uruguay for that, it's extremely common in most countries) so while things might be on the "up", they're certainly not equal. If indeed it is more trendy, it doesn't ignore the fact that you're 70% more likely to have your job application be rejected etc.
completely agree....crystal clear that Suarez was in the wrong
It certainly is in a lot of south american countries. It's not only the black population but also the indigenous people that are discriminated against. I hate to say that discrimination is there in almost all the countries in some way.
Even in Asian countries like the Philippines the Spanish descendants have most of the power and based in Manila.
Suarez did you use negrito, he used negro.
Can this be stickied? So sick of this misunderstanding.
Also Suarez was being antagonistic to an opponent on the pitch while he said it To rile him up And get a reaction. Then he refused to shake hands.
Cavani was saying thanks to a well wisher on Twitter. Apples and oranges.
That's what the judgment also says (see below), if Cavani contested it he would not be found guilty of any wrong doing.
263. The whole episode in the match starting with Mr Suarez's foul on Mr Evra in the 58th minute, and continuing with their encounter in the penalty area in the 63rd to 65th minutes was confrontational and hostile. In the goalmouth, Mr Evra fired the first verbal assault and Mr Suarez responded in a hostile fashion judged by his demeanour as shown on the video footage and his pinching of Mr Evra's skin. When the referee blew his whistle to stop play, it was less than 10 seconds after the pinching in the goalmouth. This is when Mr Suarez claimed to have used the word “negro” for the one and only time. The players' demeanour, as shown in the video footage, showed that the exchanges continued to be confrontational. This was followed, after the referee had spoken to the players, by Mr Suarez putting his hand on the back of Mr Evra's head in a way which, in our judgment, was intended to aggravate Mr Evra.
264. The whole tenor of the players' exchanges during this episode was one of animosity. They behaved in a confrontational and argumentative way. This continued at all times during their exchanges in the penalty area. Whilst Mr Evra is partly to blame for starting the confrontation at that moment, Mr Suarez's attitude and actions were the very antithesis of the conciliation and friendliness that he would have us believe.
that was the bestExactly, thanks for digging it out. Although I don't believe Cavani will win on appeal to the FA. A court case would obviously be a different case but it will bring too much scrutiny on the club for all the wrong reasons. Opposition fans would insinuate that we are condoning racism (while clearly understanding we aren't).
The narrative may go down very badly for the club, especially for neutral observers who don't have the required context and the understanding of the nuances we are talking about. The general reaction could be "Man Utd are supporting racism". That's bad for our brand and our standing in the game overall.
It sucks but the club have dealt with this in a very mature way, more so than the FA. Especially since the ban would apply during the busiest period of the season.
I keep thinking about how poorly Liverpool and their fans dealt with this situation. And for years after the fans have embarrassed themselves.
They still haven’t taken any ownership about it either. I have loads of scouse mates who were very vocal during the peak of BLM, yet none of them mentioned it, apologised for it.
Liverpool prides itself on being very left, running EDL out of the city etc. yet nothing here. It’s a very poor show.
They still haven’t taken any ownership about it either. I have loads of scouse mates who were very vocal during the peak of BLM, yet none of them mentioned it, apologised for it.
Liverpool prides itself on being very left, running EDL out of the city etc. yet nothing here. It’s a very poor show.