Television The Falcon & The Winter Soldier

SalfordRed18

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She clearly has her own motives and I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't have a new job as a spy for another agency.
Sword?
 

SalfordRed18

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Question, where does this sit in the timeline? Obviously post endgame, but pre Spiderman? Concurrent with wandavision?
 

ha_rooney

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Question, where does this sit in the timeline? Obviously post endgame, but pre Spiderman? Concurrent with wandavision?
6 months after Endgame, so it’s before the events in Spider-Man (8 months after Endgame) but after the events in WandaVision (which was 2/3 weeks after Endgame).
 

simonhch

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Much more interesting than WandaVision so far, but I think that’s because the end of WandaVision was such a damp squib. It’s not particularly clever but it has plenty of decent moving parts and for a superhero TV show it’s about as decent as it gets so far. Hopefully it keeps the good trend going. Baron Zemo is a welcome addition, mainly because Daniel Bruhl is an excellent actor. Emily VanCamp and Anthony Mackie are both pretty terrible actors so that somewhat offsets it unfortunately.
 

Oldyella

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Great episode. Hope Zemo sticks around for a while. And Winter Soldier has the best theme going, great when that kicked in when they were in the bar.
 

ivaldo

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Another solid episode. Fight scenes have been very good so far. Often they turn into a bit of a disaster when they migrate to the small screen.
 

Adamsk7

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I honestly love all things Marvel and lap everything up, including the first two episodes of this but honestly I didn’t like this one!
for me, they basically destroyed all the good work they did with Zemo in Civil war and now, instead of being a completely cerebral villain with a good backstory, they’ve suddenly made him a Baron (like the comics) and he can kick ass, all the while in his villain coat and mask.......
I also didn’t like the intro of Sharon, which seemed forced in, and her motives and actions also seem quite out of character so far.
I don’t like how every Joe with a test tube seems to be able to make a super soldier in this universe - it kind of diminishes what’s special about Captain America every time there’s a new one.
to me this was the weakest of the lot and the first that felt a bit like an Agents of Shield TV show rather than an extension of the movies.
 

Drifter

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Still not feeling this. Very formula action scenes and the obligatory kick ass female.
 

decorativeed

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I honestly love all things Marvel and lap everything up, including the first two episodes of this but honestly I didn’t like this one!
for me, they basically destroyed all the good work they did with Zemo in Civil war and now, instead of being a completely cerebral villain with a good backstory, they’ve suddenly made him a Baron (like the comics) and he can kick ass, all the while in his villain coat and mask.......
I also didn’t like the intro of Sharon, which seemed forced in, and her motives and actions also seem quite out of character so far.
I don’t like how every Joe with a test tube seems to be able to make a super soldier in this universe - it kind of diminishes what’s special about Captain America every time there’s a new one.
to me this was the weakest of the lot and the first that felt a bit like an Agents of Shield TV show rather than an extension of the movies.
Yeah, feel pretty much the same. Zemo somehow seems less of a real character despite all the new stuff we know about him. Almost a retcon.
 

KirkDuyt

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Generic so far and my God can they please recast the falcon? Mackie is rubbish.
 

el3mel

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I don't disagree about it being generic Marvel stuff but the good thing is their generic stuff is quite fun, not deep, innovative or thought provoking but this isn't really what I search for in the superhero genre nowadays. I just want some fun stuff and a well written, coherent plot.
 

Sylar

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I dont have the issue many have with Anthony Mackie. I think he does perfectly fine and has good chemistry with Buckys actor. I think he plays off well on his own and it was smart not to have him just as the main guy.

I think it was a great episode. Sharon Carter is always a welcome sight (not related but related and I wish they had done Agent carter s3 and finished that loop between SSR --> Shield)

I liked Zemo. It was great seeing him work with the main guys.

Carli is full on villain wit hthe way she blew up the building.

Also liked the ending with Ayo turning up. It makes sense in this universe that somebody from Wakanda would turn up given what Zemo did in the movies (And they mentioned it too so it was nicely done)

I don’t like how every Joe with a test tube seems to be able to make a super soldier in this universe - it kind of diminishes what’s special about Captain America every time there’s a new one.
Didnt they kinda make the point that what you said isnt true. I mean hes the first one to make the serum since the original, and everybody else has failed. And he only did it due to the resources and backing provided by CIA and a lot of bad bad testing.
 

Adamsk7

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Didnt they kinda make the point that what you said isnt true. I mean hes the first one to make the serum since the original, and everybody else has failed. And he only did it due to the resources and backing provided by CIA and a lot of bad bad testing.
We’ve also had General Ross with the serum for Abomination in Hulk and of course we’ve had the winter soldier program.

Just seems a bit cheap that whenever they want someone to have super powers, someone else is suddenly developing this Serum. So far in this series we’ve got another 4-5 of them plus Isaiah Bradley.
 

Oldyella

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I honestly love all things Marvel and lap everything up, including the first two episodes of this but honestly I didn’t like this one!
for me, they basically destroyed all the good work they did with Zemo in Civil war and now, instead of being a completely cerebral villain with a good backstory, they’ve suddenly made him a Baron (like the comics) and he can kick ass, all the while in his villain coat and mask.......
I also didn’t like the intro of Sharon, which seemed forced in, and her motives and actions also seem quite out of character so far.
I don’t like how every Joe with a test tube seems to be able to make a super soldier in this universe - it kind of diminishes what’s special about Captain America every time there’s a new one.
to me this was the weakest of the lot and the first that felt a bit like an Agents of Shield TV show rather than an extension of the movies.
Agreed on Sharon, not sure what she really added aside from showing the consequences of stealing the shield the 1st time. Disagree on Zemo, while he was cerebral, that's because he was up against the avengers, he could obviously kick ass given his capture of the hydra agent in civil war. Love what they are doing with him here, just hope Buckys plan isn't to hand him to Ayo when they get the remaining serum and that's the last we see of him.
 

Adamsk7

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Agreed on Sharon, not sure what she really added aside from showing the consequences of stealing the shield the 1st time. Disagree on Zemo, while he was cerebral, that's because he was up against the avengers, he could obviously kick ass given his capture of the hydra agent in civil war. Love what they are doing with him here, just hope Buckys plan isn't to hand him to Ayo when they get the remaining serum and that's the last we see of him.
Yeah hopefully they have some bigger plans for him. I liked that in Civil War he was a different type of villain - always two steps ahead and capable of doing some really despicable things. A lot of other Villains always plan to take over the world etc but he wanted to turn the avengers against each other and had a really compelling story that made you believe those motivations.
Now I just think they’ve presented him as another bad guy with a suit who’s good at fighting. When we first saw him in that prison I thought he was gonna kind of be like a Hannibal Lecter type and Bucky and Sam we’re gonna consult him and he’d talk in riddles, giving them info and then somehow in a later episode he’d escape.
I’m along for the ride though, just thought a lot of this episode made some big leaps with characters that dismissed some of the good groundwork that had already been made
 

Oldyella

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Yeah hopefully they have some bigger plans for him. I liked that in Civil War he was a different type of villain - always two steps ahead and capable of doing some really despicable things. A lot of other Villains always plan to take over the world etc but he wanted to turn the avengers against each other and had a really compelling story that made you believe those motivations.
Now I just think they’ve presented him as another bad guy with a suit who’s good at fighting. When we first saw him in that prison I thought he was gonna kind of be like a Hannibal Lecter type and Bucky and Sam we’re gonna consult him and he’d talk in riddles, giving them info and then somehow in a later episode he’d escape.
I’m along for the ride though, just thought a lot of this episode made some big leaps with characters that dismissed some of the good groundwork that had already been made
Hes just anti super hero, as soon as they meet a guy who can make more, he pops a cap in him. Like you though, I'm surprised he got out so quick.
 

Hamnat

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Hes just anti super hero, as soon as they meet a guy who can make more, he pops a cap in him. Like you though, I'm surprised he got out so quick.
I think the decision to break him out as a montage is one of those can't please everyone type things. At what 25 million an episode could they have done a whole episode on the planning and escape of course. But I didnt mind it though getting right into the Zemo, Sam, Bucky dynamic which worked extremely well.

I don't think it takes away from Civil War Zemo at all fleshing him out here and making him more like comic Zemo. He still wants the same things, he still accomplished everything he did in Civil War breaking up the Avengers. And we see they are all still even now dealing with those ramifications. All they did was give us more. We know hes a Baron like hes supposed to be. He has underworld connections, and safehouses. He is also trained himself and no slouch in combat. Hell I hope they give him a sword fight too in the final battle.
 

Sylar

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I think the decision to break him out as a montage is one of those can't please everyone type things. At what 25 million an episode could they have done a whole episode on the planning and escape of course. But I didnt mind it though getting right into the Zemo, Sam, Bucky dynamic which worked extremely well.
I think montage was a great decision as we wanted to see more of him with the two heroes rather than him executing the stuff in real time

We’ve also had General Ross with the serum for Abomination in Hulk and of course we’ve had the winter soldier program.

Just seems a bit cheap that whenever they want someone to have super powers, someone else is suddenly developing this Serum. So far in this series we’ve got another 4-5 of them plus Isaiah Bradley.
I'll have to check to remind myself but ho doe those serums come about.
Wasn't the winter soldier program the same stuff as captain America stuff?
I really need to remind myself on this
 

Oldyella

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I think the decision to break him out as a montage is one of those can't please everyone type things. At what 25 million an episode could they have done a whole episode on the planning and escape of course. But I didnt mind it though getting right into the Zemo, Sam, Bucky dynamic which worked extremely well.

I don't think it takes away from Civil War Zemo at all fleshing him out here and making him more like comic Zemo. He still wants the same things, he still accomplished everything he did in Civil War breaking up the Avengers. And we see they are all still even now dealing with those ramifications. All they did was give us more. We know hes a Baron like hes supposed to be. He has underworld connections, and safehouses. He is also trained himself and no slouch in combat. Hell I hope they give him a sword fight too in the final battle.
Yes, would love to see him get a sword out. Easily to justify too, fencing lessons as a young baron.
 

Donaldo

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Gets worse with each episode IMO. Zemo's a decent addition but his new character plus motivations (he just shoots the scientist and they let him walk for it??) are just nonsensical. A lot of the set pieces seem forced, and the over-reliance on action sequences to liven things up are just boring. Add to that the inconsistent acting (Bruhl is leagues ahead of the rest of the cast), and you have a hotch potch of a (what now looks like a) forced series.
 

bucky

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Official Marvel youtube account released a 1 hour version of that. :lol:

Finally something happened that makes this more interesting. Something about this show still feels off for me though, can't quite put into words what exactly. Maybe it is that it is trying to be a buddy comedy at times and on the other hand provide some serious social commentary. Either way, it feels uneven.
 

Sylar

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Official Marvel youtube account released a 1 hour version of that. :lol:

Finally something happened that makes this more interesting. Something about this show still feels off for me though, can't quite put into words what exactly. Maybe it is that it is trying to be a buddy comedy at times and on the other hand provide some serious social commentary. Either way, it feels uneven.
You're missing Sam aren't you?
 

BluesJr

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4th episode escalating things nicely. Cannot stand John Walker.
 

Rustyspider13

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Episode 4 was fantastic. Feels like the show has finally found its footing. Opening scene is beautiful, villains got their motivation explained, fights are great and the ending shot seemed like the US in a nutshell. Good stuff all around.
 

Andersons Dietician

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Yo, this show ain’t bad. Loving the arc they are taking. It was obvious from a mile off this is how it would go but still been decent and yes that final shot was amazing. Thoroughly enjoyable.
 

reelworld

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I would be interested on how Falcon is going to go forward without the super soldier serum. It'll be ridiculous he become the new Captain America without the serum
 

Andersons Dietician

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I would be interested on how Falcon is going to go forward without the super soldier serum. It'll be ridiculous he become the new Captain America without the serum
I think this is sort of the point though.
Walker can’t cope with the pressure of being an ordinary man, living up to an idea of Captain America the super solider, hence the power corrupt angle. From these actions in episode 4 he is now no longer your everyday man to give hope to the normal man. He has cracked under the expectation of what he has to deal with.

Where as the Falcon has acted for years without the shield, without the special abilities and been in the fight. So he is the only one to carry the burden of what that shield represents.
 

reelworld

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I think this is sort of the point though.
Walker can’t cope with the pressure of being an ordinary man, living up to an idea of Captain America the super solider, hence the power corrupt angle. From these actions in episode 4 he is now no longer your everyday man to give hope to the normal man. He has cracked under the expectation of what he has to deal with.

Where as the Falcon has acted for years without the shield, without the special abilities and been in the fight. So he is the only one to carry the burden of what that shield represents.
that's interesting take.
 

ha_rooney

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Fantastic episode!! The different motivations of each of the factions came together really well in this episode.

The action sequences, particularly the end scenes & the Dora Milaje absolutely handing it out to fake Cap & Bucky were cool. But the scenes between Karli and Sam & Zemo explaining to Sam & Bucky how everyone (except Steve) who takes the super-serum is a corrupted supremacist were fascinating. I’ve enjoyed how the series has focused on social/real world issues in between all the action scenes.

The ending was really well executed & the shot of him with the shield covered in blood as he’s finished murdering someone in public - it destroys everything the shield stands for & goes back to Zemo’s point that the serum corrupts its users.

Also, Bucky’s sarcastic humour is hilarious. Him cheering on Walker whilst he’s getting beaten up :lol:
 
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Oldyella

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Fantastic episode!! The different motivations of each of the factions came together really well in this episode.

The action sequences, particularly the end scenes & the Dora Milaje absolutely handing it out to fake Cap & Bucky were cool. But the scenes between Karli and Sam & Zemo explaining to Sam & Bucky how everyone (except Steve) who takes the super-serum is a corrupted supremacist were fascinating. I’ve enjoyed how the series has focused on social/real world issues in between all the action scenes.

The ending was really well executed & the shot of him with the shield covered in blood as he’s finished murdering someone in public - it destroys everything the shield stands for & goes back to Zemo’s point that the serum corrupts its users.

Also, Bucky’s sarcastic humour is hilarious. Him cheering on Walker whilst he’s getting beaten up :lol:
I also enjoyed the fact that when they pointed out Steve was still a good guy to Zemo and wasn't corrupted by the serum, he didn't try and argue that fact, just said fair enough.

That last shot was perfect too, really liked what they have done with Walker, hope this series isn't the last we see of him.
 

Golden Nugget

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Great episode. I absolutely love the scenes with Zemo.

Also, is it just me, or does fake Cap look a lot like Harry Maguire?