An update on a previous poll, do people still feel the same?
Old thread https://www.redcafe.net/f6/glazers-274608/
Old thread https://www.redcafe.net/f6/glazers-274608/
The financial crisis wasnt exactly lucky though, was it? This whole thing was conceived in a different, far simpler time. That they have still managed to get to where they currently are, despite the global economic conditions, is something more than luck.I think that they have been extremely lucky. The debt is getting lower and lower, the transfer funds were there when needed.... i'm warming towards them.
This is basically my position. The only reason we didn't end up with a Liverpool situation is the success SAF brought.No.
crediting them for Sir Alex Ferguson's work just because they didn't "interfere" is slightly insulting to him I think.
Meanwhile they rip off fans with ridiculous ticket schemes, use the club to funnel money for themselves, transfer the training ground into their own ownership so they can feck the club over for more money if it is sold in the future, etc...yeah, they're fantastic.
This is the thing. I don't get why everyone gets so hung up on the debt when Glazers or not, it's there. It's now completely seperate from the question of whether they are good owners going forwards.There is another reading of this. Without going into it in great detail, read the latest AndersRed has written about our finances. He mentions "luck" a bit too much for my liking too. It is a lot more than luck. They saw how much our commercial strategy could be developed and they have done that. Our financial position is not astonishingly bright, so much so that even naysayers like Anders have had to concede there is no financial threat to us from their ownership at all. We are raking it in. Putting ticket prices up, yes. Great owners, maybe not, it depends on your criteria. But from a business perspective they have been vindicated.
Way to take the debt out of the equation: bring it up as your first point.This is the thing. I don't get why everyone gets so hung up on the debt when Glazers or not, it's there. It's now completely seperate from the question of whether they are good owners going forwards.
But, lets just take the bickering over how managable the debt was and is out of the equation, and look at them purely as owners from a fans perspective:
Things they've done which a fan might perceive as negative:
- Bought club with money they didn't have, meaning their buying of the club has effectively been paid for by the fans
- Introduced ACS for season tickets meaning fans with season tickets are ripped off, every single year
- Banned people from expressing their opinion inside the ground if they don't like what the opinion is
- Transfered ownership of training facilities to themselves and NOT the club
- Put club on stock exchange with no promise of investment gained from it being used for the club's benefit
- Have overseen David Gill's weird crusade to turn Manchester United into some kind of heartless business coorporation, to the point the club now refers to fans as "customers"...who it willingly treats like shit because it knows they can't go anywhere else.
THings they've done which fans might view as a possitive:
- Not interfered with Sir Alex Ferguson's job
- Allowed him to buy some players and invest in the team.
So yeah, they seem to be pretty good at being ruthless, evil business men, but in terms of being good owners from a fan perspective, I can only think of the two things. One is very much self interest orientated to help their business plan work, and the other literally equates to not actually doing anything at all.
No we're not actually.Again though, if you measure them relative to peer group, instead of a fantasy about what fans would like to see, are they very very bad? We are one of the most expensive teams to watch in the league - but not the most, I understand? Well, that is actually not bad, considering by supply and demand or success measures, we should be the most expensive. I dont know how ACS compares to the arrangements other clubs have with ticketing. But for anyone objective and knowledgeable about this, are the Glazers an outlier, in terms of shafting fans? Or are they just basically quite normal?
This is exactly what I thought when my renewal came through the post and after reading the financial result they posted a couple of days later it's clear that they're not strapped for cash. I am not asking for price cuts on season tickets as it's unlikely to happen but the the ACS is something they could work on.If they lowered ticket prices, then I wouldn't have all that much a problem with them. I'm not all that clued up on what they do, but it's clear they have multiplied the value of the club and our revenue has massively increased, as we now have a sponsorship deal for just about everything you can slap a brand name on, which I imagine they are driving forces behind initiating. I'm not bothered about that, so long as Old Trafford isn't renamed Chevrolet Dome or DHL Field or something.
But for all the mind-boggling amounts of money they bring in to the club now with all these endorsements, it'd be nice to give a little back to the supporters by reducing ticket prices a little.
They are very astute businessmen who know how to make astronomical amounts of money, but that means they don't really give a shit about the supporters. If they did, then there'd be no problem, as far as I'm concerned.
As for as I know Arsenal are the only club that force season ticket holders into buying cup games. A Few club operate a scheme where you can buy a "FA Cup Package" or "Europe Package" and have those games added onto your season ticket, this is something I wouldn't mind having at our club. The ACS does have one advantage though, whilst everyone was running around looking for a Madrid ticket those in the ACS knew that they had a guaranteed ticket. I wonder how many season ticket holders were complaining about the ACS on that night.Again though, if you measure them relative to peer group, instead of a fantasy about what fans would like to see, are they very very bad? We are one of the most expensive teams to watch in the league - but not the most, I understand? Well, that is actually not bad, considering by supply and demand or success measures, we should be the most expensive. I dont know how ACS compares to the arrangements other clubs have with ticketing. But for anyone objective and knowledgeable about this, are the Glazers an outlier, in terms of shafting fans? Or are they just basically quite normal?
I think that they have been extremely lucky. The debt is getting lower and lower, the transfer funds were there when needed.... i'm warming towards them.
Embarrassing. The idea that they've got lucky is absurd, plain and simple.Lucky is the best way to describe them, they took a massive gamble and without Fergie as manager and his long term planning we could well be in a very different position.
Agreed. The other side is the playing side of it too; they didn't interfere with Fergie, they always backed him when he needed money for a player and they never went behind his back and hired someone who could jeopardise the harmony of the Club.The other option 'better than I thought' should be on this one. It's the middle ground. There's no way in hell I'd say they were good owners considering the money they've bled out of the club, but considering our success under them, it's hard to say they're particularly bad either.
So you vote yes?I feel that they understand the traditions of the club to some extent. Haven't sold the naming rights to Old Trafford despite this being a potential cash cow, and the Moyes appointment also suggests that they want the continuity.
Obviously there are bad points, but overall I am comfortable with the situation.
This is an interesting philosophical question though. What is better, a well meaning meddler who only wants to bring glory to his team - and thereby himself (Abramovich)? Or a cynical and calculating businessman, who has no particular interest in the club per se, except a financial one, who knows interference is likely to be counter-productive, and therefore stays out of the football side of things?Personally I don't feel they are good owners, bottom line is they are only interested in themselves and what they can get out of Manchester United.