The Higher Education Thread | First University with £18k pa fees to open

The government is planning to offer every single British citizen domiciled in this country the universal right to a tuition loan up front before any university course begins. There is no requirement to ever pay it back if conditions are not triggered, the government will be raising that threshold of monthly payments from £15,000 to £21,000. On a salary of less than £30,000 you will be paying back less a month than you are now. Also extra help for less well off students will increase as will the threshold for such help to a household income of £60,000.


To me the terms and conditions of debt repayment are far more important than the total value of it, the all-important affordability of student loans will increase as a consequence of these reforms.
 
Frosty said:
A brain drain not just of students - many academics I know are packing their bags for the States or Australia, due to their continued investment in HE.

The universities we will be charging students £9,000 a year to study at will be pale imitators of their cousins abroad.
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But where only the rich can attend the Ivy League ones.
 
Team Brian GB said:
Tuition costs and supplementary fees including housing at Harvard: $50,723
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I am surprised its that low TBH. Universities like Florida and Auburn are over $40k with accommodation.

Difference over here is there are lots of scholarships and grants available, plus you tend to earn more once you hit the job market anyway.
 
Frosty said:
A brain drain not just of students - many academics I know are packing their bags for the States or Australia, due to their continued investment in HE.

The universities we will be charging students £9,000 a year to study at will be pale imitators of their cousins abroad.
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Good luck to them.
 
Mockney said:
Bit much.
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Somewhat yes.

University is only affordable if you are going to a public university in your own state and even then you would need to be middle class otherwise you can go to a community college.
 
Overheard a policeman organising a line of cavalry today near Albert Square: "Just stand there and look big, y'know?"
 
AlwynP said:
Overheard a policeman organising a line of cavalry today near Albert Square: "Just stand there and look big, y'know?"
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Benitez says the same thing to himself before every Inter game.
 
Mockney said:
Which is precisely why it worries people here to lift the cap.
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That is the point I made earlier, a right to a loan which you only pay for when you personally earn more than £21,000 to me spells universal education.
 
Team Brian GB said:
That is the point I made earlier, a right to a loan which you only pay for when you personally earn more than £21,000 to me spells universal education.
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The prospect of coming out of education 50'000 pounds or more in debt having forgone employment for 3 or 4 years will spell don't go to some of our brightest and most deserving youngsters.

What interest will be charged on the loans?


How much in total will the students end up paying?

We can find 7 billion for Ireland but for our own kids futures, nothing.:(
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
The prospect of coming out of education 50'000 pounds or more in debt having forgone employment for 3 or 4 years will spell don't go to some of our brightest and most deserving youngsters.

What interest will be charged on the loans?

How much in total will the students end up paying?

We can find 7 billion for Ireland but for our own kids futures, nothing.:(
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The threshold will rise from £15,000 to £21,000 when you start paying and when interest will begin applying. For every £1,000 you earn more than £21,000 a year you will be paying off your student loan at £1.70 a week.

With regard to Ireland, I find it very frustrating but think of it as a £7 Billion investment in our own economic stability - If Ireland defaulted and their economy went into turmoil then Northern Ireland would follow a day later, Britain would face a tidal wave of immigrants and our banks would face another wave of cancelling tens of billions worth of debt.
 
Was on standby for this, got deployed only to be canceled last minute. Gutted.

Seems like there are cnuts mixed in with the genuine students, giving them a bad name a la G20.
 
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TheReligion said:
Was on standby for this, got deployed only to be canceled last minute. Gutted.

Seems like there are cnuts mixed in with the genuine students, giving them a bad name a la G20.
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I think so, but is that any different from football, just as a for-instance?

I've seen what's a good fan thing turn into a situation where people going about their daily business are forced off trains and pavements more times than I'd like.

It's necessary to separate the various components to form a view of what's right or wrong, I think.
 
Reckon the countries been due a riot for a while to be honest- just surprised it was the students that got their first!
 
Not showing the pictures of the girls circling the police van to stop people defacing it?

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I wonder why that would be.
 
bill.s.preston said:
Is it me or are there more photographers than rioters?
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Well, considering the police "conveniently" left one van in the middle of the area where they were kettling protesters, it was very important that they got as many photographers as possible near said van to take pictures of all the mindless damage the protesters caused.
 
Just noticed some idiots commenting on this in the media and spinning the old anti-Police nonsense we always hear when there is public unrest.

How about this. You are told to disperse. Do it, or accept you will get moved and you may get hit with a baton. Standing there with your hands up doesn't change the fact you WILL be moved.
 
TheReligion said:
Just noticed some idiots commenting on this in the media and spinning the old anti-Police nonsense we always hear when there is public unrest.

How about this. You are told to disperse. Do it, or accept you will get moved and you may get hit with a baton. Standing there with your hands up doesn't change the fact you WILL be moved.
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This, the police got absolutely berated for standing off 2,000 protesters at Millbank leading to the internal gutting of a building. Following that when two weeks later you have thousands of protesters marching on Parliament, the police contain them and they get berated - what can they do? WHat would have happened if the police just stood by and watched?
 
Higher education places should be more limited, but it shouldn't be resolved by only letting the rich kids have access to elite level education.. it should be a meritocracy. Let the smartest kids who have a genuine chance of pushing academia to higher levels and in new directions.. lets not let every run of the mill kid enter Uni and just benefit from the clubbin life.
 
Raees said:
Higher education places should be more limited, but it shouldn't be resolved by only letting the rich kids have access to elite level education.. it should be a meritocracy. Let the smartest kids who have a genuine chance of pushing academia to higher levels and in new directions.. lets not let every run of the mill kid enter Uni and just benefit from the clubbin life.
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What in these proposals prevents a meritocracy remaining in our university system, if you only have to pay if you earn an annualised salary of £21,000 when you will pay less than £2 a week for every £1,000 over that you earn then what prevents poor people from going???
 
Team Brian GB said:
What in these proposals prevents a meritocracy remaining in our university system, if you only have to pay if you earn an annualised salary of £21,000 when you will pay less than £2 a week for every £1,000 over that you earn then what prevents poor people from going???
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There is no meritocracy in its current state.. its a free for all, every Tom, Dick and Harry is being let in even though they have no genuine interest in futhering their academic development and just see Uni as a way of prolonging their childhood and enjoying the student lifestyle.

But with these changes, dumb rich kids will still find their way into University whereas poorer clever kids will still fear the spectre of debt that will go with taking the risk of a university education.

Only the elite should go to University and by that I mean the potential intellectual elite not those whose mummy and daddy possess the largest pockets.

Its in the states interests to financially support the smartest kids of today and not impose debts on them regardless of whether it can be paid off in the manner as you described it.

Seeking knowledge and expanding it needs to be encouraged, not restricted through a pay as you go policy.
 
There shouldn't be a financial disincentive to go to University, and however much Nick and Dave say it isn't a financial disincentive, when you have people saying "I'm not going to University because I can't afford it" I'd suggest there IS a financial disincentive.

We're talking about tens of thousands of pounds of debt that now accumulates interest above inflation. Kids from poor backgrounds, who may have experienced the problems debt can cause in their own families, are not looking at that and saying "Ah it's fine, I'll just pay it back when I'm rich," they're saying that University is not worth it. Just take a look at the number of kids from Wales who have stayed in Wales for University to avoid the original top up fees.

Anyway, a lot of poor kids are not even going to do their A-levels now the EMA has been taken away. So you needn't worry about them going to Uni.
 
It's a big disincentive to go to university for anyone from a poor background, who has probably struggled against other disadvantages to get as far as they have. Disgusting anti-egalitarian policy.
 
SmashedHombre said:
Reckon the countries been due a riot for a while to be honest- just surprised it was the students that got their first!
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We could escalate these riots quite easily Smashed.

I can see it now, the student protesters being beaten back savagely by the brutish Police force, the battle against education cuts are being lost...but alas! Look at those two figures on the horizon. Silhouetted by the sun, the arching firmaments which were so bleak appear the brightest blue!

One, moving quicker than the other on a skateboard has what appears to be a weird hair-cut, the other, brandishing what can only be a guitar is singing wildly.

Could it truly be? Smashed and AdZz of RedCafe, here to save the day?

Two enemies united by hatred of all kinds of cuts, hair-cuts, education-cuts, circumcision cuts.

One thing is for sure, the spastication levels of this riot has risen ten-fold.
 
Raees said:
Higher education places should be more limited, but it shouldn't be resolved by only letting the rich kids have access to elite level education.. it should be a meritocracy. Let the smartest kids who have a genuine chance of pushing academia to higher levels and in new directions.. lets not let every run of the mill kid enter Uni and just benefit from the clubbin life.
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Most sensible post of the entire thread.

The majority of degrees are a waste of time are not real a necessity in the real world. It seems daft that kids are brain washed and pushed into six years higher education will no real benefit. We need more vocational type courses and apprenticeships at 16 and less degree places.
 
Frosty said:
We need to brainwash kids into higher education with benefits then?
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No just align the higher education system with the needs of the overall economy a little bit better. There is a reason that the US is swamped with Indian IT workers and nurses: their system reacted to a need.

The number of people in the US and UK with degree doing jobs that simply don't require them is ridiculous. Thirty years ago a relatively small number of people did degree but the majority were career specific like accountancy and law etc. These days people do random subjects that are a complete waste of six years higher education IMO.

I think education should be free until a certain age and the cost of continuing should be free at source and paid back over the life of your career. However we simply can't afford to let kids do six years higher education to work in shoe shops, especially when their are shortages in many areas when the economy is buoyant.

For instance here in Florida pretty everyone does the obligatory degree. Yet around Tampa I bet the average salary for graduates in their mid-20s is under $50k. A trained electrician/plumber takes about five years to make master electrician, and the salary range for that profession is $110-$120k.

Seems to me the education system is actually failing society.
 
AdZzUtd said:
We could escalate these riots quite easily Smashed.

I can see it now, the student protesters being beaten back savagely by the brutish Police force, the battle against education cuts are being lost...but alas! Look at those two figures on the horizon. Silhouetted by the sun, the arching firmaments which were so bleak appear the brightest blue!

One, moving quicker than the other on a skateboard has what appears to be a weird hair-cut, the other, brandishing what can only be a guitar is singing wildly.

Could it truly be? Smashed and AdZz of RedCafe, here to save the day?

Two enemies united by hatred of all kinds of cuts, hair-cuts, education-cuts, circumcision cuts.

One thing is for sure, the spastication levels of this riot has risen ten-fold.
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I'm all up for rioting against the injustice of shitty haircuts.

To the spaz-mobile!
 
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