The Higher Education Thread | First University with £18k pa fees to open

Yeah but they're protesting scum/layabouts/chavs/cnuts/erm...something else which justifies this?... Aliens?
 
I think a newspaper should commission a poll representative of all adults across the United Kingdom, asking them would they take up a loan of £9,000 repayable only if you are earning more than £21,000 at 9% which for the average full time earner would be £360 a year?
 
Team Brian GB said:
I think a newspaper should commission a poll representative of all adults across the United Kingdom, asking them would they take up a loan of £9,000 repayable only if you are earning more than £21,000 at 9% which for the average full time earner would be £360 a year?
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£9,000 a year, over a three year course, so £27,000.
 
Ubik said:
£9,000 a year, over a three year course, so £27,000.
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Student loans are taken out on a year-by-year basis but I take your point.

I think from next year UCAS should add a question in all applications asking whether prospective students protested about the governments proposals being too unfair - if they say yes they should be turned down as they don't have the research skills necessary for university. I wonder how many of them realise that on lower and modest salaries they will be paying far less than graduates do now if they have to pay back anything at all.
 
lynchie said:
They were also spraying people with fire extinguishers apparently.

Toxic extinguisher fired at student protesters by police medic | Metro.co.uk

Sometimes you just love the police.
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Try reading the article..

Anyhow, the behaviour of alot of the so called "protesters" was a disgrace. You can moan all you like about being caught up in it all, but if you chose to ignore directions given to you and continue to place yourself in the middle of mass public disorder, you make your own bed.
 
Kettling is effectively false imprisonment, it's going to ECHR and will be ruled illegal.
 
Red_Jamie said:


Student protests: video shows mounted police charging London crowd | UK news | guardian.co.uk

I'm delighted somebody got footage of this because i was there and was outraged by the police behaviour, the likes of which we haven't seen since Thatcher. Unbelievable.
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What a load of bollocks that is aswel.

There is nothing stopping the people doing as they are being asked, and moving on, instead they square up to the line of Officers and shout abuse such as "fecking cnuts", "pigs", "wife beaters", "fecking pricks" etc etc.

The Police are dispersing the crowd. They would have been given prior warning to this but instead have chosen to ignore it.

The dickhead moaning about his wife being in the middle of it and pregnant defies belief. Why take her there then? Everyone saw what happened during the last student protest. You know, the one where everyone had a pop at the Police for not being tougher and stopping the invasion of the conference at Millbank?
 
peterstorey said:
Kettling is effectively false imprisonment, it's going to ECHR and will be ruled illegal.
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In that case, so should holding back a crowd after a football match or holding up a queue of motorists on a motorway after an accident.

If it is proportionate to the situation and is being done in good faith, it would be detrimental to find it illegal.

Anyway, it is lawful at this moment in time. Any other suggestions on how to manage a violent crowd that is causing public disorder? The Police have a duty to protect the general public.
 
Just let them walk down the street sounds like a good option. And not charging them with horses might help.
 
Most of them were until you started kettling them. The technique is not about public order it's about punishing people for demonstrating.
 
TheReligion said:
The dickhead moaning about his wife being in the middle of it and pregnant defies belief. Why take her there then? Everyone saw what happened during the last student protest. You know, the one where everyone had a pop at the Police for not being tougher and stopping the invasion of the conference at Millbank?
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:lol: Because they went to attend a peaceful protest you bell end. Are you not allowed to protest if you're pregnant? fecking hell.

In the area where the horses charged a lot of the crowd were talking to each other and not paying massive attention to what was going on further up the road. Some were even sitting (most there had settled in to the protest which they, and the police, knew was due to end at 7). The actions of the police in dispersing the crowd in the manner they did were beyond appalling. I'm still seething from their actions even now.
 
peterstorey said:
Just let them walk down the street sounds like a good option. And not charging them with horses might help.
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Considering two weeks earlier students caused severe criminal damage to government and party offices it was the duty of the police to prevent them from reaching Parliament. The police have a duty to maintain public order and if they need kettling then so be it.
 
Not like your top brass who've conned you into thinking it's about public order rather than denying legitimate protest.
 
Red_Jamie said:
:lol: Because they went to attend a peaceful protest you bell end. Are you not allowed to protest if you're pregnant? fecking hell.

In the area where the horses charged a lot of the crowd were talking to each other and not paying massive attention to what was going on further up the road. Some were even sitting (most there had settled in to the protest which they, and the police, knew was due to end at 7). The actions of the police in dispersing the crowd in the manner they did were beyond appalling. I'm still seething from their actions even now.
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Yes, but common sense would dictate that these so called "peaceful protests" never really are peaceful are they? Only a thick cnut would take their pregnant wife.

You are one of the people that will probably blame the Police for the crowd smashing up and looting their vehicles, destroying public property and causing thousands of pounds of damage that the taxpayer will pay to put right.

What about the members of the public who don't actually want the whole of London to be shut down and smashed to pieces?
 
Team Brian GB said:
Considering two weeks earlier students caused severe criminal damage to government and party offices it was the duty of the police to prevent them from reaching Parliament. The police have a duty to maintain public order and if they need kettling then so be it.
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They weren't the mass of students they were a handful of anarcho-syndicalists, if 1000s of police can't stop a handful of loons without imprisoning the whole demo they're bloody incompetent.
 
peterstorey said:
Not like your top brass who've conned you into thinking it's about public order rather than denying legitimate protest.
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Two weeks following students smashing up government and party offices over the issue of university funding, the police are going to be out in force regarding students converging on Parliament about university funding - if you cannot see that then there is no point even discussing it.

And considering this government is removing so much legislation that curtailed civil liberties that your labour party imposed on the country it is very rich to talk about the higher echelons of the Conservatives denying rights - it was the previous government that made it a priviledge and not a right to demonstrate in Westminster via the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005.
 
peterstorey said:
Not like your top brass who've conned you into thinking it's about public order rather than denying legitimate protest.
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I was also conned into thinking Police vehicles and equipment would be set on fire, buildings would be smashed to pieces and the city would be left in such a mess.

Righto.
 
peterstorey said:
They weren't the mass of students they were a handful of anarcho-syndicalists, if 1000s of police can't stop a handful of loons without imprisoning the whole demo they're bloody incompetent.
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Irrespective, they've ruined it for everybody else when they set the precedent which the Police have to work with.
 
peterstorey said:
They weren't the mass of students they were a handful of anarcho-syndicalists, if 1000s of police can't stop a handful of loons without imprisoning the whole demo they're bloody incompetent.
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Do you want to explain to everyone how you tell these people apart when even the mass number students are being reduced to shouting and swearing in the street? Not to mention pushing against the Police line, which could amount to assault and Obstruct Police. All or which, may I add, are offences.
 
They're not trying to work with legitimate protest they're trying to stop people doing it.
 
TheReligion said:
Do you want to explain to everyone how you tell these people apart when even the mass number students are being reduced to shouting and swearing in the street? Not to mention pushing against the Police line, which could amount to assault and Obstruct Police. All or which, may I add, are offences.
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Teenage girls pushing the police line to get truncheoned? You lot are getting more like the mickey mouse banana republic coppers every day.
 
What do you think would have happened if they were allowed to encroach on Parliament? When the first line of defence is the police carrying machine guns?
 
peterstorey said:
Teenage girls pushing the police line to get truncheoned? You lot are getting more like the mickey mouse banana republic coppers every day.
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Don't be so dramatic. Saying that, if someone keeps trying to push through the line, regardless of who they are, they will be getting moved accordingly.

Try working a mass public order situation in full gear for several hours or more, not being able to hear whats happening or what is going on. Try having things thrown at you, seeing colleagues get smacked and knocked to the floor. Try being insulted for hours on end, going without food, drink or the toilet. Try trying to make judgment calls within a split second whilst trying to see through a NATO helmet.

No one is perfect, and believe it or not, Police Officers are human too.
 
Team Brian GB said:
What do you think would have happened if they were allowed to encroach on Parliament? When the first line of defence is the police carrying machine guns?
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The protesters would have liked that, then pictures of Police with guns could be put on the front page of The Guardian and such, claiming that we are a Police State.
 
Red_Jamie said:
.. and power mad.





(See: Zimbardo, 1971, Stanford prison experiment)
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Of course they all are.

Would be interesting to see what would happen, just for a couple of hours, if the Police around the country thought "nahh feck it, we won't bother today".
 
TheReligion said:
Try working a mass public order situation in full gear for several hours or more, not being able to hear whats happening or what is going on. Try having things thrown at you, seeing colleagues get smacked and knocked to the floor. Try being insulted for hours on end, going without food, drink or the toilet. Try trying to make judgment calls within a split second whilst trying to see through a NATO helmet.

No one is perfect, and believe it or not, Police Officers are human too.
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Save us the sob story most of you like the job otherwise you wouldn't do it. Unfortunately with the job comes the 'we're right' & 'you're wrong' attitude which might be effective out on the street but doesn't make for any kind of debate elsewhere. My beef here is not with the individual copper anyway it's with the top brass who are carrying out politically-driven policy
 
Sorry if already posted, but this video from Sky News questions just how volatile the situation was which (according to the Met) forced the officers to abandon the van.

Bait Or Balls Up? | students | police | van | Frontline Blog | Sky News Blogs

Now, they'll probably have some legitimate excuse for leaving it there, but clearly they didn't abandon it because they were being threatened, wonder what they'll come up with.

Next protests are planned for Tuesday, and apparently there is a warning that this time there may be riots if police use similar tactics to try to contain the protestors. I bet all the politicians are hoping that the snow fecks up the protests so that they cannot go ahead.

I would love to know if these protests are actually having any influence/impact on how the MPs will vote.
 
ha_rooney said:
I would love to know if these protests are actually having any influence/impact on how the MPs will vote.
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We have to cut £85 billion of expenditure and if this happens everytime we try to cut spending then the country will go to the wall, and MPs will have that in mind.
 
Peter, save me the sob story from the protesters in that case. It is swings and roundabouts.

With regards to the van, it doesn't really matter why it was there, the fact was, it was smashed to pieces and vandalised.
 
TheReligion said:
Of course they all are.

Would be interesting to see what would happen, just for a couple of hours, if the Police around the country thought "nahh feck it, we won't bother today".
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So basically, just because they are needed, they should be allowed to act however they want? All this right wing bollocks about "oh the tax payer will have to pay for this awful damage" well the tax payer pays for the Police, and I'd rather pay for some damage during a democratic protest than people who threaten and charge at innocent people in the name of ending it.

Why did the Met deny charging if charging was such an obviously sound, sensible and fair thing to do.
 
TheReligion said:
Peter, save me the sob story from the protesters in that case. It is swings and roundabouts.
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No. It isn't at all reciprocal. You are being paid to do a job. People making a legitimate protest should not be charged at horseback or effectively imprisoned.
 
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