The Improvement of Harry Maguire

[RashyForPM]

Thought I’d start a positive thread about a defender I’m happy plays for us, amongst the negativity that to be fair has engulfed the forum since the Sheff Utd game.

If someone were to ask me or any United fan about Maguire’s fortunes last season, the general verdict would be ‘not the most auspicious start, but he grew to become our best defender’. This season though, I feel like Slabhead has gone from strength to strength.

Firstly, there’s no doubt that for the first three games of this season, he was utterly dreadful, culminating in the 1-6 disaster against Spurs and Mourinho of all people where there were calls for him to be replaced impromptu. However, since then, the guy sorted his head out after the unfortunate events of his summer holiday and in my opinion, has grown to become one of the best fit CBs in the league, probably only behind Dias and maybe Fofana in terms of performance levels. Yes, our defensive record isn’t great, but that is massively swayed by us conceding an unbelievable 11 goals in our first three games. Since then, it’s been fine, although lads like Shaw have played a massive part too. We also had the most clean sheets in all competitions across Europe last season.

Also, when you take a look at his attributes, he has everything you’d want in a defender. His aerial ability is second to none, he reads the game well, can tackle and intercept and has good technical ability, whether that’s breaking the lines via carrying the ball out or playing a 35 yard long ball to the left winger. He’s also clearly a team leader and is never injured. Don’t underestimate that trait, especially when it allows us defensive continuity because the main CB can play the most minutes out of anyone in 2020.

So to summarise, the criticism he’s faced all season is unfair. It’s not his fault that we paid £80m for him, and forgetting that, he’s been one of the best defenders in the league since he came and even before that too. Pair him with Upamecano and get a competent RB, and then we’ll see a top defensive unit at the back. He can’t do everything by himself with above average to poor defenders like Lindelof and AWB around him. When you take a look at his defensive stats, he’s doing better than any of our other defenders, aside from tackling due to AWB’s slide tackles.

 

[Solius]

I think he's been brilliant.

It wasn't much long ago we were desperate for a CB to actually stay fit as the bare minimum requirement. He plays almost every single minute of the season and he is consistently defending well. People get on his back because he has weaknesses and can make mistakes, but almost every defender does this.

 

[Ali Dia]

Ya I’m happy with him. I always felt If he got a few more of those headed goals the fans would have taken to him a lot faster.

 

[Lassitude42]

So Maguire's been great and AWB and Lindelof have been crap, and if only we surrounded Maguire with world class defenders he would be better.

Couldn't we make the same argument for Lindelof and AWB?

I'm far from a Maguire hater but to blame the rest of the defence whilst absolving Harry is a nonsense.

 

[NinjaFletch]

He's been playing very well ever since that red card for England, for me.

But, the cat's still a bit out of the bag. Our defence is still woeful and he's a part of it. It may be that Lindelof and AWB are the problems, or even De Gea, and I'd lean towards that at any rate, but until Maguire becomes a part of a genuinely competent defensive unit we can't take praise of him too far.

 

[UmbroDays]

He has a few dumb moments but he’s very solid and reliable. He’s played probably 99% of games since he’s been signed too. That’s worth probably £50-60m in itself.

He’s still slow, cumbersome and isn’t the best as an attacking goal threat. He probably should do more leadership on the pitch too, but with more experienced United players, it maybe tough.

I think he does the job well, and this is only into his second season, so he has plenty of time to improve and carry us further. For that to happen, there needs to be a solid CB with him who is more dynamic. Bailly would have been perfect if it wasn’t for the injuries and sometimes boneheaded mistakes.

 

[SER19]

For the most part I agree. There have been tight games this season where Maguires role in us winning has been massively underrated. His passing is also unfairly criticised because he does look slow on the ball at times, but overall I think maguire is performing really well and continues to suffer due to a lack of a consistent partner. A partnership is so important.

All of that said, even on his good days he still seems to have a mistake in him. Or moments where he seems to panic as if he's still playing with a little fear. I'd certainly stick with him but try get a fit version of bailly in there too

 

[TMDaines]

I think my opinion will only turn on him when we finally deliver that run of six or seven consecutive clean sheets. I feel like he has got what it takes to be a top defender, but until he’s leading that quality of defensive unit, I will hold back the praise. There’s still far too many sloppy goals being conceded. As the captain, he’s accountable for that.

 

[tomaldinho1]

As a rule we should generally try to not try and compare player's price tag with their abilities (after all he doesn't decide how much someone wants to pay for him) and without the 80m looming over him he's been solid. For me he's a good PL defender and consistently good without being world class, which is all we can really ask and maybe he'd kick on with a regular partner and a sweeper keeper which is really important for his profile.

The greatest asset he has is that he seems to be made from concrete and is never injured, that alone is worth praising him for.

Edit: please just delete the part about AWB / Lindelof. Can't say here's a positive post about a player who I like but these two are shit (especially when not true)

 

[DoomSlayer]

I'm sorry, I disagree completely. Only defender who deserves plaudits has been Shaw, the rest have been "OK" at best. Bailly has played too little, but the 3-4 consecutive performances he had not so long ago was the best form of any CB we have this season.

To say Maguire has been "brilliant" is mind-boggling, at least for me.

 

[No Spring Chicken]

We're in an era where there are very few genuinely world class centre backs around. Think back 20 years, you'd go into European games as worried about the opposition centre backs as you were the opposition strikers. I can't think of the last time an opposition centre back stood out as a particularly fearsome opponent.

Given this, Maguire is among the better centre backs around. Don't wish to damn him with faint praise or anything, but there really aren't any centre backs these days other than Van Dijk who have no obvious flaws in their game. I'd struggle to name too many centre backs I'd rather have than Maguire.

 

[Rightnr]

Harry can do no wrong, better than Rio and Vidic taken together. Glory, glory Glazer United.

Yes, you guessed right. I don't rate him. If you need only world class players around you, you are not that special.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

He is comfortably our best defender. Still need a partner for him because not sure Ole knows what he prefers with Bailly or Lindelof.

 

[Remember the geese]

So Maguire's been great and AWB and Lindelof have been crap, and if only we surrounded Maguire with world class defenders he would be better.

Couldn't we make the same argument for Lindelof and AWB?

I'm far from a Maguire hater but to blame the rest of the defence whilst absolving Harry is a nonsense.

Yeah nice to see a positive post, until he started digging out Wan Bissaka and Lindelof.

 

[Spaghetti]

I like him. I also think that if we got consistency with: AWB - Lindelof - Maguire - Shaw, we would get a solid defence.

Lindelof could possibly be upgraded but I don’t think he’s the disaster that many do. Bailly is probably better on his day, but he is an accident waiting to happen.

In fact, I think our first XI is solid in general, there is just a big problem when we have injuries. In defence, aside from Bailly, all of the back ups are useless - this might seem harsh on Telles after a handful of appearances but he doesn’t look very good.

 

[2 man midfield]

The what?

 

[RUCK4444]

I've always said he's much better than many would have you believe here on the caf.

He's not worth £80 million but he doesn't set the price and he shouldn't be viewed through that constant negative narrative. He's our best CB and is the only CB we've had in YEARS that is fit to play every game.

We would be much worse off without him.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I very much believe that our overall defensive unit will improve when we upgrade De Gea. Just like Allisson massively improved Liverpool. Keepers can do so much more than just save shots and far too often you see De Gea’s indecision and timidity create uncertainty in our back line. It must be a nightmare playing in front of a keeper who is so reluctant to come off his line and take charge of situations when required. Get a really decisive, strong character in there and we’ll tighten things up significantly.

 

[TMDaines]

I very much believe that our overall defensive unit will improve significantly when we upgrade De Gea. Just like Allisson massively improved Liverpool. Keepers can do so much more than just save shots and far too often you see De Gea’s indecision and timidity create uncertainty in our back line. Get a really decisive, strong character in there and we’ll tighten things up significantly.

100%. I'm afraid we're only part way through DDG's post-head-injury Petr Cech years; two keepers who peaked early and dined out on their reputation for a good decade.

 

[AltiUn]

I very much believe that our overall defensive unit will improve significantly when we upgrade De Gea. Just like Allisson massively improved Liverpool. Keepers can do so much more than just save shots and far too often you see De Gea’s indecision and timidity create uncertainty in our back line. Get a really decisive, strong character in there and we’ll tighten things up significantly.

I think so too. He's getting away with it in the media but he puts us under constant pressure from any set piece and any ball over the top. I've noticed recently teams are packing our 6 yard box at every set piece, it won't be long until he's exposed again sadly. He's also terrible with the ball at his feet and that's crucial to our current style of play.

We still need a good CB to go alongside Maguire. He and Lindelof have played together for a long time now and the same issues are still there that have been there since the beginning, they just don't suit each other as partners and their limitations and weaknesses are highlighted when they play together. Bailly's not perfect but we looked a hell of a lot better with him alongside Maguire mainly because his attributes present a good foil to Maguire's. If we're going to persist with Maguire and Lindelof all season then we'd have to go back to the McTominay and Fred double pivot to protect them. Although it'll cripple our offensive game.

 

[Ish]

Maguire's definitely our best CB, but that goes without saying because his competitors can barely stay fit. But he's been good, definitely.

Also, AWB a poor defender? I thought we'd have consensus on the Caf (if that's even possible ) that AWB was a very good defender, but needed to improve his attacking output?

I'm always in 2 minds about "it's not his fault that we paid 80m for him".....yeah it's not a players fault what his valuation was, but surely you cannot rate performances/signings without taking investment/price into account? Like there's a reason not too many would be bothered if Dan James was sold and we recouped our outlay....that's because he was a relatively young and cheap punt. Same with Ibra, Cavani and Ighalo. Contrast that with Lukaku (ignoring his tendency to shoot his mouth off). I guess because i work in finance and related fields, it might just be my shortcoming of being unable to separate ROI from the discussion.

 

[Hoboman]

Has his obvious flaws and play less advanterous and proactive (both in defence and starting attacks) then in his preceding clubs, but he is good player and very dependable, as is almost all our defenders.

The main problems with our defence are not the quality of defenders, but inability to defend as a unit (especially in transitions), absence of mobile DM who reads the game well, very reactive and meek goalkeeper and forwards who don't help defensively and don't cover our fullbacks enough.

 

[GueRed]

He's been a good signing. IMO He and Bruno our are most important players.

Since he's joined apart from the beginning of this season he's put in consistent solid performances for us.

As he continues to grow in his role for the team offensively i would like like to see him carry the ball forward more and become more effective with his passes... And of course it would be nice to see him score a few more goals from set-pieces which he is more than capable of.

I also think he would come on ten fold if he played alongside a top quality centre back.

Buying a top centre back to play alongside Maguire should be a priority this summer. Lindelof and Bailly are average

 

[Ludens the Red]

I disagree. I thought Maguire was better in the first half of last season than he’s ever been since. Although he’s been better these last few months than he was post lockdown and the start of the season.

I felt he played with far more authority back then. Now he seems to shirk certain types of balls that come into the box.

He seems to spend less time faffing about on the ball though which is good.
He drops too deep sometimes though, I think due to fear that he’ll get done on a one on one.

He needs to also take responsibility in set piece defending. I wanna see him shouting at people and dragging them into position. He’s captain that’s his job.

Saying that, he’s not helped by an indecisive goalkeeper, a fellow centre backs afraid of his own shadow and the lack of a specialist DM to protect him.

 

[Bastian]

I very much believe that our overall defensive unit will improve when we upgrade De Gea. Just like Allisson massively improved Liverpool. Keepers can do so much more than just save shots and far too often you see De Gea’s indecision and timidity create uncertainty in our back line. It must be a nightmare playing in front of a keeper who is so reluctant to come off his line and take charge of situations when required. Get a really decisive, strong character in there and we’ll tighten things up significantly.

It's taken me a long time to come to the same conclusion. I don't think Henderson is the one to be honest. I would like a physical monster there. Or at least height, reach and bravery.

On topic: I think he's our best defender. He's been reliable overall and superb in the air. We quite obviously need another centre back of the same or higher quality who loves to defend and has the recovery pace to allow for a high line.

 

[dinostar77]

His price tag is an issue if he was a £40mil signing then he wouldnt get as much stick. Hard to really judge him without a proper partner CB who has the attributes that maguire doesnt i.e. acceleration, recovery pace and positioning. He's the best of an average bunch of CBs at Utd.

 

[RashyForPM]

Yeah nice to see a positive post, until he started digging out Wan Bissaka and Lindelof.

Not digging anyone out, I’m saying what everyone can see. Are AWB and Lindelof world class or even as useful as Maguire to the team? Our team would massively improve if we upgraded on them. Put it this way, if we get Upamecano in, should Lindelof or Maguire be replaced.

 

[roonster09]

Not digging anyone out, I’m saying what everyone can see. Are AWB and Lindelof world class or even as useful as Maguire to the team? Our team would massively improve if we upgraded on them. Put it this way, if we get Upamecano in, should Lindelof or Maguire be replaced.

AWB is, considering we don't have any other RB.

 

[Judas]

I very much believe that our overall defensive unit will improve when we upgrade De Gea. Just like Allisson massively improved Liverpool. Keepers can do so much more than just save shots and far too often you see De Gea’s indecision and timidity create uncertainty in our back line. It must be a nightmare playing in front of a keeper who is so reluctant to come off his line and take charge of situations when required. Get a really decisive, strong character in there and we’ll tighten things up significantly.

100%. He sends a nervous uneasy energy across the whole defensive unit. He's a ghost of a keeper, he looks like a pushover in the way he carries himself on the pitch, just doesn't do so many things that you'd want from a top keeper. It's such a shame how many flaws he still has.

It wouldn't turn our defence into world class instantly, but I do think it would make them a bit more confident if they had someone behind them whose actions were more decisive and combative. He doesn't want to get involved, he's quite happy to stay as far away from the ball as possible.

Sadly from what I've seen of Henderson, I don't truly know if he's what we're looking for either.

 

[RashyForPM]

AWB is, considering we don't have any other RB.

Fair enough. We do need an upgrade in the summer window though.

 

[Gopher Brown]

For a supposed ball-playing centre back he does a remarkably good Smalling impression every time he’s on the ball. Lindelof and him are probably on a bonus every time they trickle the ball 5 yards to each other

 

[BR7]

So Maguire's been great and AWB and Lindelof have been crap, and if only we surrounded Maguire with world class defenders he would be better.

Couldn't we make the same argument for Lindelof and AWB?

I'm far from a Maguire hater but to blame the rest of the defence whilst absolving Harry is a nonsense.

Lindelof, I just don’t rate him, he has really bad days in the air and he’s been beaten by little men in the air as well, regularly.

 

[Remember the geese]

Not digging anyone out, I’m saying what everyone can see. Are AWB and Lindelof world class or even as useful as Maguire to the team? Our team would massively improve if we upgraded on them. Put it this way, if we get Upamecano in, should Lindelof or Maguire be replaced.

I don't think upgrading on AWB is as easy as you suggest. I actually think he's very good and is improving. I would however like to see the club sign someone who can provide competition for him, if they don't deem Laird to be ready. Lindelof too is a good player, albeit perhaps easier to upgrade.

 

[bsCallout]

He's decent and him, Shaw and AWB could feature in a top back 5, if there was a CB better than Maguire and a goalkeeper more dominant than DDG.

He's nothing to really be proud of as a fan like Liverpool are with VVD and we were with Vidic and Rio.

 

[Polar]

Maquire has in general been solid as a rock. Very reliable and solid player with great precence on the pitch. If he was quicker or more speedy, I would’ve rated him as VVD, best CB in the world 19/20.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Solid, dependable and all that. Come a long way since he was dragging Luke Shaw to the floor at the start of the season.

All I'm asking from him is to score more headers, we've been a bit hard done with those.

 

[MrBest]

I don't want to pollute your very positive thread and post with my belief of reality so I will keep this brief.

The only thing Harry has done well is not being injured. He is slow, no agility, not very smart, barely drives forward efficiently, cannot play with another slow defender, needs a fast defender to cover him, i count consistently over 5 mistakes a game, is our captain but cannot lead (maybe not his fault), is meant to be quality at heading but fails at every attempt at goal almost and his defence headers only work when the ball is in his path as he takes an age to move and finally is out of position a lot of the time or has the opposition glide past him.

I think he is not a United player, we have conceded 27 goals and he played every game, we still dont look assured. I really don't care if he cost 8m or 80m, it don't change the fact how average he is. The worst thing is, Ole wont drop him for any game. Id prefer to see Bailey and Lindeloff.

 

[Borys]

He's good, and second to last player in our defensive line I'd upgrade on. The priorities should be as follows:
1. De Gea - average shot stopper this season, and considering he's not good at anything else, we NEED to start looking for an upgrade NOW. He might get better and we will probably get one more season from him, but if there is a chance this summer to get someone I think it should be one of the priorities. Getting paid crazy money but I don't feel safe with him in the goal anymore.
2. Lindelof - he's a decent defender, just too weak and a bit too slow. Considering I rate Maguire higher, Victor will probably be replaced.
3. Wan Bissaka - good defender, average footballer. Might improve as he's still young, but somehow I think that's all he's got. We would be a better team with a fullback better offensively, even if not so good at defending.
4. Maguire - good defender and will be even better with a fast CB beside him. Has to be faster on the ball and I expect him to start scoring more goals from corners.
5. Shaw

 

[Jonno]

The fact we're still shuffling between Lindelof, Bailly and Tuanzebe to partner Maguire tells you how important signing Maguire was before you even take into consideration his performances.

We have someone who can play every minute of every game of every season, in CB. That's something we've not had in years.

The days of shuffling between 7 CB's every week, similarly to what Liverpool are having to do this season, are long gone thanks to Maguire.

Then there's the proof he's improved Man United defensively, then there's the fact its no coincidence since he's signed we've gone further in cups, consistently sitting higher in the league, than the year before he came.

Excellent signing, but because he's expensive, English and not got pace, many like to bash him.

 

[ROFLUTION]

Considering we upgraded him for Smalling (a quite solid defender), and one of the main reasons was that he could play the ball out really well, I'm not completely sold on him.

For me it's 80m for a Smalling-type of player, but he can pass 20-25% better and is probably a more vocal leader.