The Improvement of Harry Maguire

[dal]

He oozes class and plays his way.

I think Maguire and Lindelof are fine together.

In bailly Maguire and Lindelof we have £145 million of centreback + Tuanzebe and Mengi I think we aren’t in a bad place there.

We need to sort out attack out in all honesty and Grealish and Haaland go a long way to making us real challengers next season.

 

[simplyared]

I wouldn't make a big issue about Maguire improving his game. He was top level when playing for Hull. He carried that on at Leicester and now doing it for us. No big deal!
If you want to make a thread on player improvement then Lindelöf would be more justifiable imo. To think we signed a donkey and turned him inte a top defender.

 

[Stacks]

But Ferdinand believes their defence will still have some issues as long as Maguire is in the side, because he can't be trusted to be left on the halfway line and take on an attacker one v one.

Ferdinand explained that while Maguire has a host of other attributes, he can't be left alone at the back.


“I think that’s Ole’s biggest concern - can he leave Maguire one v one on the halfway line? Or Lindelof?" He said.

“It’s proven that you can’t as that’s not their main attributes.

"Harry Maguire is good at a lot of other things but that area, that’s one of his weak points."

I kind of agree. He is good at a lot of things but there are a few glaring ones that can get exposed and look bad from time to time. So long as we protect those weaknesses then he can get by in our side

 

[Marwood]

But Ferdinand believes their defence will still have some issues as long as Maguire is in the side, because he can't be trusted to be left on the halfway line and take on an attacker one v one.

Ferdinand explained that while Maguire has a host of other attributes, he can't be left alone at the back.


“I think that’s Ole’s biggest concern - can he leave Maguire one v one on the halfway line? Or Lindelof?" He said.

“It’s proven that you can’t as that’s not their main attributes.

"Harry Maguire is good at a lot of other things but that area, that’s one of his weak points."

I kind of agree. He is good at a lot of things but there are a few glaring ones that can get exposed and look bad from time to time. So long as we protect those weaknesses then he can get by in our side

That's every centrebacks weakpoint to be fair and Rio's doing that pundit thing of rewriting history. Neither he or any of the other brilliant centrebacks we've had would want to be one on one around the halfway line. Nor did we play a way that creates that situation all too often.

 

[Remember the geese]

That's every centrebacks weakpoint to be fair and Rio's doing that pundit thing of rewriting history. Neither he or any of the other brilliant centrebacks we've had would want to be one on one around the halfway line. Nor did we play a way that creates that situation all too often.

The interviewer should have said "Craig Bellamy".

 

[Bilbo]

He oozes class and plays his way.

I think Maguire and Lindelof are fine together.

In bailly Maguire and Lindelof we have £145 million of centreback + Tuanzebe and Mengi I think we aren’t in a bad place there.

We need to sort out attack out in all honesty and Grealish and Haaland go a long way to making us real challengers next season.

I do agree with you. The one thing that is surely inarguable is that we rarely look like losing matches these days, and that isn't possible without a reliable defence. 1 defeat in the last 20 & no away defeats in a year, and I can't think of any instance among those where we've needed a late equaliser for a point. Additionally if we exclude the 11 we shipped in the first 3 games where we were clearly off the pace, we are averaging under a goal a game(21 in 26).

 

[Marwood]

The interviewer should have said "Craig Bellamy".

Haha exactly what I thought.

I remember Fergie saying that if he could replay the second final against Barca he'd have played Jones and Smalling and told them to push up. But Rio and Vidic were old school and wanted to sit deeper.

This definitely isn't a Maguire specific problem.

 

[Stacks]

That's every centrebacks weakpoint to be fair and Rio's doing that pundit thing of rewriting history. Neither he or any of the other brilliant centrebacks we've had would want to be one on one around the halfway line. Nor did we play a way that creates that situation all too often.

I agree but I am not sure he is suggesting being one on one at the halfway line. I think he is talking that their weaknesses are 1) lack of pace to play high line, 2) one on one defending;
unless I am mistaken. Of course one on one defending at the halfway is silly

 

[Cassidy]

That's every centrebacks weakpoint to be fair and Rio's doing that pundit thing of rewriting history. Neither he or any of the other brilliant centrebacks we've had would want to be one on one around the halfway line. Nor did we play a way that creates that situation all too often.

Rio was very good for us defending high, not sure what you are on about there. With fullbacks that bombed on and not more than one holding CM

 

[rcoobc]

I do agree with you. The one thing that is surely inarguable is that we rarely look like losing matches these days, and that isn't possible without a reliable defence. 1 defeat in the last 20 & no away defeats in a year, and I can't think of any instance among those where we've needed a late equaliser for a point. Additionally if we exclude the 11 we shipped in the first 3 games where we were clearly off the pace, we are averaging under a goal a game(21 in 26).

It's very frustrating how crap we were in the latter group stage games in the CL.

The goal from Demba Ba, in particulier, was criminal

 

[Dante]

But Ferdinand believes their defence will still have some issues as long as Maguire is in the side, because he can't be trusted to be left on the halfway line and take on an attacker one v one.

Ferdinand explained that while Maguire has a host of other attributes, he can't be left alone at the back.


“I think that’s Ole’s biggest concern - can he leave Maguire one v one on the halfway line? Or Lindelof?" He said.

“It’s proven that you can’t as that’s not their main attributes.

"Harry Maguire is good at a lot of other things but that area, that’s one of his weak points."

I kind of agree. He is good at a lot of things but there are a few glaring ones that can get exposed and look bad from time to time. So long as we protect those weaknesses then he can get by in our side

Former players often criticise their replacements when there's a change in style.

Ferdinand doesn't like Maguire. Paul Parker didn't like Gary Neville. Scholes is critical of Pogba. Evra is critical of Shaw.

Maguire might well play differently from Rio, but he should recognise there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[Stacks]

Former players often criticise their replacements when there's a change in style.

Ferdinand doesn't like Maguire. Paul Parker didn't like Gary Neville. Scholes is critical of Pogba. Evra is critical of Shaw.

Maguire might well play differently from Rio, but he should recognise there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Who said they don't like them? just because you criticise doesn't mean you don't like. Rio played in an era when you had to deal with 2 CF's and broke defensive records which built titles. Scholes has every right to criticise Pogba and you are forgetting the predecessors are winners and now watching the current generation fail. Should they be reaping them with praise?

 

[A-man]

Former players often criticise their replacements when there's a change in style.

Ferdinand doesn't like Maguire. Paul Parker didn't like Gary Neville. Scholes is critical of Pogba. Evra is critical of Shaw.

Maguire might well play differently from Rio, but he should recognise there's more than one way to skin a cat.

This has been exactly my observation as well. It is almost like they have missed that football has evolved over the years. The way they played some years ago is most likely not very efficient today.
Also, very often when a former player is discussing a current player, he compares with himself or his team mates using very emotional and vague arguments. "I's about owning the penalty box", "you've go to earn that shirt", "as a CB you need to make a statement", etc. I guess it is a way to stay in the spot light.

 

[A-man]

It's very frustrating how crap we were in the latter group stage games in the CL.

The goal from Demba Ba, in particulier, was criminal

It was also a very stupid goal to concede. We left our slowest player who is decent in the air (Matic) to defend when we had a corner. We let our fastest players who are poor in the air move up for the corner (Tuanzebe and AWB).

 

[Stacks]

This has been exactly my observation as well. It is almost like they have missed that football has evolved over the years. The way they played some years ago is most likely not very efficient today.
Also, very often when a former player is discussing a current player, he compares with himself or his team mates using very emotional and vague arguments. "I's about owning the penalty box", "you've go to earn that shirt", "as a CB you need to make a statement", etc. I guess it is a way to stay in the spot light.

Tell me how Ferdinand, Scholes and Evra would not be efficient today or Gary Neville? All would walk into our starting line up unless you have never seen them play. Literally better at everything than our current crop except Shaw is better at crossing and passing than Evra.

I know what they mean by "you have to make a statement". He's saying you need to be aggressive and let them know early they are gonna be in a game (whether through physical or whatever) something I agree with. Attackers do not fear our CBs in the slightest. You need to create that aura of invincibility

 

[red4ever 79]

This has been exactly my observation as well. It is almost like they have missed that football has evolved over the years. The way they played some years ago is most likely not very efficient today.
Also, very often when a former player is discussing a current player, he compares with himself or his team mates using very emotional and vague arguments. "I's about owning the penalty box", "you've go to earn that shirt", "as a CB you need to make a statement", etc. I guess it is a way to stay in the spot light.

If anything the value of Ferdinand would be even higher now than when he played. You would struggle to find a better ball playing centre half, and he wasnt half quick in his pomp.

 

[Stacks]

If anything the value of Ferdinand would be even higher now than when he played. You would struggle to find a better ball playing centre half, and he wasnt half quick in his pomp.

possibly Neville too since he could actually cross the ball really well whilst being a good defender. Scholes would be insanely expensive. Not efficient.......

 

[OleTheGreat]

I am one of those guys who criticize him heavily week in week out but I'm also one of them who thinks he's worked really hard every week. Sometimes criticism makes you stronger and I think that is the case with Maguire. The man never wants to be rested, I only wish he scored more because he has a mean stature and can get above most heads. I think he's due many many goals from a corner perspective and we can expect him to be great for us for a long time. He definitely needs a good partner and also I think Henderson has a small part to play in his revival too. We need Ethan Laird to be promoted to the first team because Wan Bissaka is awful in possession and somebody needs to push him to do better coming out of the press from the opposition. All in all, the left side of the team is decent but we have a really hard time working our play out from the right and we need to fix that.

 

[Zen86]

If anything the value of Ferdinand would be even higher now than when he played. You would struggle to find a better ball playing centre half, and he wasnt half quick in his pomp.

Some people like to make out that football was composed of cavemen back in the 2000s and beyond, presumably because they weren't old enough to watch it.

 

[A-man]

Tell me how Ferdinand, Scholes and Evra would not be efficient today or Gary Neville? All would walk into our starting line up unless you have never seen them play. Literally better at everything than our current crop except Shaw is better at crossing and passing than Evra.

I know what they mean by "you have to make a statement". He's saying you need to be aggressive and let them know early they are gonna be in a game (whether through physical or whatever) something I agree with. Attackers do not fear our CBs in the slightest. You need to create that aura of invincibility

I was talking more in general. Some old players would fit in well, others won’t. The point is that all sports develop from year to year. To have been the greatest defender 2001 you needed other skills and attributes than today, and vice versa. In general, some roles on the pitch are broader today imo, plus it goes faster, more press and greater competition, etc.

I think the “fear ” thing is a little overrated in modern football, if one thinks you could nullify Harry Kane or Haaland by scaring them a little. It’s still there as a factor, maybe, but I guess it worked better a few years ago when you were allowed to play more violent football. We have 6 clean sheets and 1 goal conceded in 7 PL matches vs City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. And this without Mane, Salah, Sterling, Aubayemang, Lacazette, Jesus, Mahrez... etc felt any fear for our incompetent defenders with zero aura.

If anything the value of Ferdinand would be even higher now than when he played. You would struggle to find a better ball playing centre half, and he wasnt half quick in his pomp.

Maybe, maybe not. We’ll never know. But agree he had a profile that would fit a modern CB.

 

[red4ever 79]

I was talking more in general. Some old players would fit in well, others won’t. The point is that all sports develop from year to year. To have been the greatest defender 2001 you needed other skills and attributes than today, and vice versa. In general, some roles on the pitch are broader today imo, plus it goes faster, more press and greater competition, etc.

I think the “fear ” thing is a little overrated in modern football, if one thinks you could nullify Harry Kane or Haaland by scaring them a little. It’s still there as a factor, maybe, but I guess it worked better a few years ago when you were allowed to play more violent football. We have 6 clean sheets and 1 goal conceded in 7 PL matches vs City, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal. And this without Mane, Salah, Sterling, Aubayemang, Lacazette, Jesus, Mahrez... etc felt any fear for our incompetent defenders with zero aura.



Maybe, maybe not. We’ll never know. But agree he had a profile that would fit a modern CB.

You do realize that Ferdinand was one of the best CB's of his generation. We were blessed to have him, Vidic and Stam who I regard as the best 3 that I have seen in my lifetime.

 

[A-man]

You do realize that Ferdinand was one of the best CB's of his generation. We were blessed to have him, Vidic and Stam who I regard as the best 3 that I have seen in my lifetime.

Yes. I think everybody knows that. Doesn’t make him the best pundit, though. Or what was your point?

Edit: missed the bolder text.
Yes I think he would be great but no one can know for sure.

 

[Marwood]

Rio was very good for us defending high, not sure what you are on about there. With fullbacks that bombed on and not more than one holding CM

Suppose it's how you recollect it but I don't think Rio and Vidic played any higher up the pitch than the current centre backs. They also played with much better players who kept the ball better.

My main point is that it's unfair to pin our supposed deep back line on Maguire. The vast majority of defenders don't want to be exposed high up the pitch.

For the teams that do, like City and Liverpool, it's without doubt their weakness. Look at our last two games against them.

 

[Cassidy]

Suppose it's how you recollect it but I don't think Rio and Vidic played any higher up the pitch than the current centre backs. They also played with much better players who kept the ball better.

My main point is that it's unfair to pin our supposed deep back line on Maguire. The vast majority of defenders don't want to be exposed high up the pitch.

For the teams that do, like City and Liverpool, it's without doubt their weakness. Look at our last two games against them.

Yea you would know better than Rio

 

[Barnslig]

But Ferdinand believes their defence will still have some issues as long as Maguire is in the side, because he can't be trusted to be left on the halfway line and take on an attacker one v one.

Ferdinand explained that while Maguire has a host of other attributes, he can't be left alone at the back.


“I think that’s Ole’s biggest concern - can he leave Maguire one v one on the halfway line? Or Lindelof?" He said.

“It’s proven that you can’t as that’s not their main attributes.

"Harry Maguire is good at a lot of other things but that area, that’s one of his weak points."

I kind of agree. He is good at a lot of things but there are a few glaring ones that can get exposed and look bad from time to time. So long as we protect those weaknesses then he can get by in our side

Seems to have been working well leaving AWB back on corners. He's rapid and he loves a tackle, and he's pretty much useless at corners anyway. Agree with the sentiment though.

 

[gerdm07]

Harry has always been good and I'm not sure why others do not see that. Maguire said it best recently (sic) "I'll always look better when my left back is playing so well."

 

[Marwood]

Yea you would know better than Rio

I'm sure you've never disagreed with an ex pro.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Ever since I lost confidence in him and said he should be nowhere near the first 11 or captain he has been solid.

In conclusion, I think it's all down to me to be honest.

 

[harms]

This has been exactly my observation as well. It is almost like they have missed that football has evolved over the years. The way they played some years ago is most likely not very efficient today.

In what way has football developed over the past decade that deep-lying defenses are more prevalent than proactive high-pressing defensive units?

Rio is the archetype of a modern defender, while Maguire would feel more comfortable in the 90’s/early 00’s. What a weird criticism.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

This has been exactly my observation as well. It is almost like they have missed that football has evolved over the years. The way they played some years ago is most likely not very efficient today.
Also, very often when a former player is discussing a current player, he compares with himself or his team mates using very emotional and vague arguments. "I's about owning the penalty box", "you've go to earn that shirt", "as a CB you need to make a statement", etc. I guess it is a way to stay in the spot light.

Rio was more of a modern defender than Maguire though so how does that make sense? Maguire has got Blackburn Rovers captain circa 2002 written all over him.

 

[A-man]

In what way has football developed over the past decade that deep-lying defenses are more prevalent than proactive high-pressing defensive units?

Rio is the archetype of a modern defender, while Maguire would feel more comfortable in the 90’s/early 00’s. What a weird criticism.

Rio was more of a modern defender than Maguire though so how does that make sense? Maguire has got Blackburn Rovers captain circa 2002 written all over him.

I didn’t even mention Rio or Maguire.
It was a comment about old players who become pundits in general.

I watch old games sometimes. Watched United -Hull from 2008 just a few days ago and an Chelsea game before that. Love watching old heroes. But I would definitely say football has changed since then. It was less intense, and less press. So many long balls. A CB like Laporte would not be successful at that time, that’s for sure. Etc.

 

[Stacks]

Harry has always been good and I'm not sure why others do not see that. Maguire said it best recently (sic) "I'll always look better when my left back is playing so well."

He is indeed good. On form can be very good in games but will not be regarded "great in my book". Then there is excelllent and outstanding as additional tiers

 

[Stacks]

I didn’t even mention Rio or Maguire.
It was a comment about old players who become pundits in general.

I watch old games sometimes. Watched United -Hull from 2008 just a few days ago and an Chelsea game before that. Love watching old heroes. But I would definitely say football has changed since then. It was less intense, and less press. So many long balls. A CB like Laporte would not be successful at that time, that’s for sure. Etc.

pressing isn't a new concept bro. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't United tried to press Barcelona and got torn to shreds?

 

[A-man]

pressing isn't a new concept bro. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't United tried to press Barcelona and got torn to shreds?

No, pressing is t a new concept. Just like phones isn’t a new concept. Still there has been some development over the years.

 

[Cassidy]

I'm sure you've never disagreed with an ex pro.

Not on something he himself was doing (playing higher up the pitch as a CB), that would be rather silly

 

[MadDogg]

It was also a very stupid goal to concede. We left our slowest player who is decent in the air (Matic) to defend when we had a corner. We let our fastest players who are poor in the air move up for the corner (Tuanzebe and AWB).

To be fair it wasn't a planned thing. AWB was supposed to come back into his usual position of being the last defender, but Bruno and the other player (can't remember who it was) took a quick corner and passed it to AWB before he could drop. AWB did the right thing at first by passing it forward again, but instead of then continuing back to his normal position he decided to charge forward and continue being involved in that attack. Matic also did the right thing at first by seeing the danger and dropping back to cover, but then he wandered out wide to act as an option to pass to and left Ba all by himself in miles of space.

Stupid goal to concede of course, but it was more through individual errors rather than anything deliberately done.

 

[Varun]

Harry can do no wrong, better than Rio and Vidic taken together. Glory, glory Glazer United.

Yes, you guessed right. I don't rate him. If you need only world class players around you, you are not that special.

Yeah, surrounded by world class players like Lindelof, AWB, Fred and Mcto

 

[MadDogg]

Harry has always been good and I'm not sure why others do not see that. Maguire said it best recently (sic) "I'll always look better when my left back is playing so well."

He hasn't 'always' been good though. I've liked him since his Hull days so I'm certainly not someone who dislikes him, but I also recognise he has been rather inconsistent for us so far.

From when he joined up until lockdown he was quite inconsistent. He often had good games but he also had too many games where he made mistakes and was poor. After lockdown he was below average and he obviously started this season horribly (the latter I can forgive because of the lack of pre-season and his issues in Greece). He's mostly been good since then though so I'm hoping that improved consistency continues, and hopefully he improves further as he does have the ability to be very good.

 

[jem]

I only watched the second half against West Ham, but he was fantastic from what I saw.

 

[Marwood]

Not on something he himself was doing (playing higher up the pitch as a CB), that would be rather silly

If you look at his quote he doesn't claim he used to play a high line. Doesn't mention his own performance at all in fact. You've put words in his mouth there and claimed it's silly of me to disagree with him.

He's just singling out Maguire for a weak point the vast majority of CB's struggle with.

Do I trust Maguire one on one around the halfway line? Nope. Just like I wouldn't trust 99% of the Premier League CB's in the same position.

I'd be more focussed on the goalkeeper, hoping he's ready to come out and play sweeper in that scenario.