Melbourne Red
Still hasn't given Rain Dog another chance
I'm speaking for myself, never claimed otherwise. Thanks for clarifying that different people have different opinions.
Love it.
I'm speaking for myself, never claimed otherwise. Thanks for clarifying that different people have different opinions.
It's 1 of those things that only the very best can get away with.This, exactly.
Bludgeoning others into doing better will probably work to a great in a results-driven industry like sport, but we should probably reserve the pedestal for outstanding leadership for people who can actually communicate effectively and understand other people. I suspect if the likes of Jordan and Bryant had a better command of those and other interpersonal skills, they might have managed to elevate their teams to success without having to resort to unrelenting cuntery as a device.
More like Shannon Sharp. A Jordan hater.Eboue is skip bayless
Proper bullshit. Tim Duncan had 200% command and adulation of his teammates without "being a bad ass motherfecker". Countless others did and do.People think jordan is a bully?
Some of you lot are naive if you think he can get there commanding respect and adulations of his team and the world withour being a bad ass motherfecker.
Jordan was a very demanding and hard to please teammate and leader, but he lead by examples on the pitch. Nobody can deny his influence on the team. The fact that he's there bollocking you if you're not playing well is a testament of a great leader.
He was something else in his prime, good luck trying to be lowkey with that kind of spotlight on you.
yeah bit Tim Duncan isn’t a billionaire and in the conversation for top 3 athletes of all time. Maybe if he had Jordan’s mentality and personality, it would be Duncan donuts.Proper bullshit. Tim Duncan had 200% command and adulation of his teammates without "being a bad ass motherfecker". Countless others did and do.
That's not the discussion here. The quoted post said you can't get respect and adulation without being a bellend to your teammates. Well, you can, and it's obvious too.yeah bit Tim Duncan isn’t a billionaire and in the conversation for top 3 athletes of all time. Maybe if he had Jordan’s mentality and personality, it would be Duncan donuts.
who's tim duncan?Proper bullshit. Tim Duncan had 200% command and adulation of his teammates without "being a bad ass motherfecker". Countless others did and do.
Not sure what the obsession with the article writer about Jordan's private life is. If he wants that kept out the documentary I won't blame him. I seriously don't get how this is a point you can get upset about.Tweet
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I remember thinking why Popovich wasn’t in the documentary. He probably couldn’t stand the constant circle jerking around Mj and no real talk about basketball or coaching.Proper bullshit. Tim Duncan had 200% command and adulation of his teammates without "being a bad ass motherfecker". Countless others did and do.
Why Pop? I don't think his career really intertwined with Jordan's, they didn't qualify in '97 and lost 4-1 to the Jazz in '98. Don't think they have any history together tbh (unless I'm missing something obvious here).I remember thinking why Popovich wasn’t in the documentary. He probably couldn’t stand the constant circle jerking around Mj and no real talk about basketball or coaching.
I don't understand this. He seemed to have some good banter when he wasn't playing/training. He in my opinion was only a twat when he was playing and training.Not sure what the obsession with the article writer about Jordan's private life is. If he wants that kept out the documentary I won't blame him. I seriously don't get how this is a point you can get upset about.
I do get why people don't like him though. The guy is eaten by his own ambitions and never seems quite happy with anything, he more often than not could be a complete dickhead to his teammates if he felt they were standing in the way of his success and yeah I don't think he is the guy you would have a great time hanging out with.
I thought we would hear more from other coaches throughout the documentary tbh. It would have been interesting to hear Pop talk about MJ, Phil Jackson, and how they might or might not have influenced him. It also makes zero sense to me that sports journalists get so much screen time.Why Pop? I don't think his career really intertwined with Jordan's, they didn't qualify in '97 and lost 4-1 to the Jazz in '98. Don't think they have any history together tbh (unless I'm missing something obvious here).
I think it's telling that Jordan's closest confidants seem to be his security guards.I don't understand this. He seemed to have some good banter when he wasn't playing/training. He in my opinion was only a twat when he was playing and training.
But to be honest, if let him be a twat to me all day if he carried me to a bunch of championships
Do agree with eboue here except for the part about being compelling. His greatness is what made him compelling. Maybe a comparison could be made to Ronaldo. Not the most interesting or sympathetic either, but people want to see greatness. Interestingly enough, there was like a 5 minute clip about Kerr and his father in episode 9 or 10, that I found way more interesting and sympathetic towards Kerr that almost 10 hours of didn't make me feel towards Jordan.Not glib. Hes not interesting or compelling or sympathetic. Hes just really good at basketball. And once he stops playing there's not much left to care about.
Phil had some career. Won a title while playing (and one while injured), coached teams to 11 titles, was President of the NY Knicks, studied Eastern and Native American philosophy/spirituality, dated the Playboy model daughter of the owner of his team...Interesting that Phil Jackson went on to win 5 more titles with LA. Also watched the whole of the Raptors title win last year and had no idea Steve Kerr was the coach of Golden State.
I'm not arguing against the results and that it worked for him, but I disagree with anyone who'd argue that his methods are the only way to be the GOAT or be respected/adored by your teammates. There are 100 different ways to show leadership, and Jordan's is just one of them that worked best for him. Fair enough, but you don't need to be a dick to your teammates (or colleagues, work-related comparison) to be a great leader, that's all.I think it's telling that Jordan's closest confidants seem to be his security guards.
I enjoyed the series. Pretty much confirms everything I thought about him. The GOAT, insane competitor, not the nicest person. Don't think he's the biggest dick ever like some are making him out to be either. I do believe part of what made Jordan so great was his attitude. Now do you have to be an asshole to be great, of course not. But it worked for him and who can argue with the results?
Do agree with eboue here except for the part about being compelling. His greatness is what made him compelling. Maybe a comparison could be made to Ronaldo. Not the most interesting or sympathetic either, but people want to see greatness. Interestingly enough, there was like a 5 minute clip about Kerr and his father in episode 9 or 10, that I found way more interesting and sympathetic towards Kerr that almost 10 hours of didn't make me feel towards Jordan.
I think it's telling that Jordan's closest confidants seem to be his security guards.
I enjoyed the series. Pretty much confirms everything I thought about him. The GOAT, insane competitor, not the nicest person. Don't think he's the biggest dick ever like some are making him out to be either. I do believe part of what made Jordan so great was his attitude. Now do you have to be an asshole to be great, of course not. But it worked for him and who can argue with the results?
Do agree with eboue here except for the part about being compelling. His greatness is what made him compelling. Maybe a comparison could be made to Ronaldo. Not the most interesting or sympathetic either, but people want to see greatness. Interestingly enough, there was like a 5 minute clip about Kerr and his father in episode 9 or 10, that I found way more interesting and sympathetic towards Kerr that almost 10 hours of didn't make me feel towards Jordan.
My wife watched this with me and her favourite person was Pippen until he bailed on the team, although he kinda made up for that in the final match where he was injured and played on.Scottie pippen is the man. Not talked about enough
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...ichael-jordan-the-last-dance-documentary-espnHorace Grant, who won three titles alongside Jordan with the Chicago Bulls, said the documentary was edited to make Jordan look better. Some critics have pointed out that the fact that The Last Dance was co-produced by one of Jordan’s companies was glossed over.
“I would say [the documentary was] entertaining, but we know, who was there as teammates, that about 90% of it [was] BS in terms of the realness of it,” Grant said in an interview on ESPN 1000’s Kap and Co radio show on Tuesday. “It wasn’t real – because a lot of things [Jordan] said to some of his teammates, that his teammates went back at him. But all of that was kind of edited out of the documentary, if you want to call it a documentary.”
Yeah maybe I underrate him in that regard but somehow he never comes across as someone who can actually let go and have a really great time, but yeah maybe I'm wrong.I don't understand this. He seemed to have some good banter when he wasn't playing/training. He in my opinion was only a twat when he was playing and training.
But to be honest, if let him be a twat to me all day if he carried me to a bunch of championships
I'd think so, most of this footage is in the middle of the season/finals and you'd expect him to be extremely focused and concentrated on winning.Yeah maybe I underrate him in that regard but somehow he never comes across as someone who can actually let go and have a really great time, but yeah maybe I'm wrong.
I'm not sure how much of the behavior we've seen on the documentary is due to the fact that he was constantly aware of the camera team being in his face. It's almost like he felt compelled to make all this jokes because he was being filmed permanently.I never thought he was funny or had a sense of humour. It was always bad "banter" right on the edge and I felt like one bad reaction to that from his teammates would immediately result in an argument. He looked like the kind of person you have to tip-toe around and just smile and nod not to set them off. Or the kind of person who'd go from "relaxed" to extremely pissed in the blink of an eye on the golf course once someone did something he didn't like.
Could also be true, yeah. To be honest he was more interesting during media interviews than I thought he would be. Interesting, honest and insightful, witty at times.I'm not sure how much of the behavior we've seen on the documentary is due to the fact that he was constantly aware of the camera team being in his face. It's almost like he felt compelled to make all this jokes because he was being filmed permanently.
His ribbing and comments did feel very forced to me. Almost like he felt like that was how he was supposed to act. Like an alien who has researched locker room culture and tried to replicate it.I'm not sure how much of the behavior we've seen on the documentary is due to the fact that he was constantly aware of the camera team being in his face. It's almost like he felt compelled to make all this jokes because he was being filmed permanently.
Not sure what point Grant is trying to make? He's saying the documentary is making Jordan look better by editing out teammates having a go back at him, surely the opposite is true?
Yep. All the best documentaries do this. Takes a subject you have no interest in, and leaves you wanting more by the end. Senna was a similar one for me.@BusbyMalone As another non basket guy this is basically spot on with what I feel about the documentary as well. Riveting stuff.
Love itLove this show. As a guy in his mid 30s, I'm always going to lean towards MJ being the GOAT but seriously Jordan's way cooler than LeBron James or any of this generation's NBA superstars. Those behind the scenes videos of him taking the piss out of his team mates and generally being a competitive dick to everyone is riveting.
I've been watching videos of other NBA players telling people their Jordan stories. Kevin Garnett has one that cracks me the feck up.
Here's one of a 36 year old retired MJ going one on one with a rookie who talked too much. Him telling the kid to look around him at all the championship banners at the place was particularly badass. That first basket he made was smooth af.
Clueless!Really? I thought that was the one thing that disappointed me, that he apparently always needed someone to trigger him and that he couldn't keep up his winning mentality from within, from an inner drive. I also used to think he was quite invincible in the playoffs, but there were games where you'd expect him to get the job done or get his team over the line and he completely disappeared, e.g. letting the Sonics get back in the series after being up 3-0. Those are things that modern day superstars like LeBron get absolutely rinsed for if they do it with the online exposure they have right now, but Jordan also had games like that. If you need to lose to BJ Armstrong first before you get motivated, in the second round of the playoffs, then you lack an elite mentality imo.
His "that's what you gotta do if you want to be a leader" to justify his horrible behaviour towards some of his teammates is a pretty poor excuse as well to me.
He's absolutely compelling. He's still got you talking some 20 years after retiring. Doubt the Warriors or Raptors or James would generate this much interest 20 years later.Not glib. Hes not interesting or compelling or sympathetic. Hes just really good at basketball. And once he stops playing there's not much left to care about.