The leaks against the manager 2023 edition

[ArmaDino]

Leaks come when the manager loses the players.

People keep saying it's the players fault not Ten Hag like that really matters.

Do you want the club to get rid of every single player and just keep the manager as that's not how football works.

Once a manger loses the players then there's only one outcome.

I'm as sick of this as anyone as it's been the case ever since Fergie left and we just don't learn.

The only way to fix it is to just start again get a proper Director of Football who is responsible for signings.

Get a manager who knows what his role is and who the players actually buy into and maybe just maybe we go forward for once.

There are players we need rid of whether its for on the pitch reasons or what they are doing of the pitch but overall we have some very good players who should be doing better.

That's the manager's role

Disagree completely mate.

The problem starts with the owners and the way they set the expectations. In our club players are treated as assets instead of employees. They are offered over inflated contracts to "protect their value" and an insane job security.

Why? Is it because we don't have the DoF? Or is it maybe that the culture of the club is rotten?

You at a team like Brighton and see that they lost their DoF and manager within their last 12 months. And guess what? Nothing changed. You want to know why? A Brighton fan explained how everything started with their owner and their CEO who built the culture of the club.

The Glazers need to realize this very simple truth: that it's not Rashford, Garnacho, Shaw or Bruno who are the assets. It's Manchester United. Every single employee contributes to the appreciation of the said asset or deprecitation. But not by their value, but by the work they put in. If players are downing tools, then they intentionally lower the value of the club. And every employee that lowers the value of the club deserves the boot, be it 1 or all 20 of them.

Now when it comes to the manager he isn't a class clown to make everyone happy. His job is to get results.

Now the problem comes when the manager is trying to get results, but players deem his methods "too intensive". Should the manager be sacked because the players are intentionally lowering the standards of the club they represent by not putting in the effort? Should the manager be sacked because the players intentionally down tools so they can get the man that is not going to be as intense or as demanding on them?

I"ll leave that for you to ponder, but the point is that any title challenge requires excellent planning, execution and superhuman effort. And if any player or group lowers the standard by even 1% because they don't like it, then they deserve the boot.

Ans this s what ETH is trying to do. While the players he signed are exactly world beaters, they all have a heart and have a fight in them, and they keep going no matter what. Lisandro, Onana, Antony, Malacia and even Eriksen with Casemiro(though I suspect their legs are gone) all keep running and giving 100% even when they're not having the best game.

On the other hand players like Rashford, McTomminay, Sancho and even, AWB and Shaw at times, like to "jog" and ball watch. It's as if putting in the effort is a foreign concept for them. They clearly lack urgency and intensity which compromises the team time and time again be it during pressing sequences or even build up play.

I can keep on going, but the point is that we need a cultural reset. I believe And if we fail to back the manager, we will have another conversation like this around the year mark into the next manager's appointment.

 

[Dannn411]

Yep. Leaks could be from non-playing staff, too.

Very true. Likes of Steve Mclaren and Co. Its definitely not one of the foreigners because they don't have the relationships with local media that the Brits have. He's been too lily livered with his approach to binning deadwood players. Hopefully this is the wake-up call for him. If you don't clean house quickly, these players and staff will screw you over.

 

[kaku06]

People who think it’s all made up are as deluded as some of the players in the dressing room believing in their own abilities. You just have to watch yesterday’s press conference to see there is a lot going on.

 

[fallengt]

Do you want the club to get rid of every single player and just keep the manager as that's not how football works.

You can tell 100% English players or staff leaked this.
Since not many of them are in the starting 11, it's easy to squeeze out the rats

 

[kaku06]

All the wankers and snakes in that dressing room know fully well that nobody is going to pay them the wages we do. And as soon as their survival is under threat they know what to do. Get rid of the manager and start fresh with the new one knowing they would be given a clean slate for another few years possibly with a bumper contract. Simple.

 

[kaku06]

Let’s analyse who are these rats. Can’t be the players who we just signed. Can’t be ten hag’s previous years signings. Can only be the players who have fallen out or are not playing or having significant less playing time. That leaves us with Sancho, Maguire, Mctominay. Ironically these are also the players who would be closer to the British media than others and also these are the ones who have played under multiple managers and underperformed but are still here. So for them, now it’s time to play another survival game by getting rid of the manager.

 

[YSB99]

I’d like to back Ten Haag here to be honest considering I can’t stand a lot of our players, it’s people like Maguire, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Shaw, Sancho, McTominay we should be getting rid of before the manager, they’re all here years, they’ve done nothing, bin them and move on,

 

[AndySmith1990]

I'd bet substantial money those responsible for leaking stuff are the British players.

 

[AneRu]

Im on ETHs side here, but perhaps the disciplinarian approach is a little too much and has got old after a year.

Does he really command that much respect? To the players, if what he is saying and doing is not working, are they going to go with him? He has not exactly come to England with CV full of success. And he doesn't have the legend status like a Zidane would.

Rightly or not, maybe some do feel that Sancho has been treated harshly and that DDG contract offer being rescinded was bad form.

Perhaps they know that the tactics and instructions that they are being given are not working and that they are making the team perform worse.

We will see tomorrow at Burnley. If there is no response from the team, ETH is in serious trouble.

Nah these prima donas do this to every manager that's asks them to up the work rate, we have seen it before it's not like we are new to this. Everytime there expectation on them they crumble and start blaming the management so it's time to clear decks even if it means we finish the season playing loanees and U21s.

Just look at the lad from Spurs, the intensity and eagerness with which he plays and compare with our hometown golden boy. That tells you all there is to know about what's going on. The other issue is the club should have done everything to get rid of Maguire and McTominay because now they know the manager wants them out they have no reason to put the effort in to save him.

ETH, on his part, rather than seek to unite a toxic dressing room should double down on banishing Sancho's mates not putting in the required effort until they get in line or ship out. The club must back him even if we finish the season 12th because we need to get rid of the poison in our club.

 

[B. Munich]

Since not many of them are in the starting 11, it's easy to squeeze out the rats

British players in the starting eleven. There is only Rashford, isn't it?

 

[fezzerUTD]

Very true. Likes of Steve Mclaren and Co. Its definitely not one of the foreigners because they don't have the relationships with local media that the Brits have. He's been too lily livered with his approach to binning deadwood players. Hopefully this is the wake-up call for him. If you don't clean house quickly, these players and staff will screw you over.

Why the feck would steve mclaren leak to the press? As soon as ten hag goes so does mclaren. Stop talking rubbish. He‘s talking about doctors, physios or people like Mike Phelan not his fecking assistant manager.

 

[The Firestarter]

That reminds me of this small quote in Crimson Tide. Very relevant to the situation.


Any crew member who feels he cannot handle the situation can leave the ship RIGHT NOW.

So to use the navy/ships/sailors metaphor here: it's time to drop quitters (namely Sancho, Maguire and McTominay for starters) on rafts in the middle of the ocean. I prefer to rely on younger and less experienced players who ain't quitting yet, because they have everything to prove and critics to shut down.

Quote takes a darker turn when you remember it was not a ship but a submarine

 

[Niall]

Did Rangnick not give ETH a list of players he observed to be lazy ass, loser mentality cnuts? If not, why not?

This is where a DOF is needed. Someone out of the manager spotlight, in the position for the long term, who can identify toxic elements in the squad/club and eject them at the earliest opportunity.

Having a new manager coming in every few years and giving everyone a fair chance doesn’t cut it. We’re just doomed to repeat the same cycle over and over, as has happened several times now.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Players will dare to leak because they know the Manager doesn't have the full support of the owners, disgruntled players at City or Liverpool wouldn't dare to stir shit up because they know the club will discard them at the first instant Pep or Klopp says get rid.

I still don't think that these are actual leaks, most likely it's sourced from third hand sources rather than an insider leak, but on the chance this is an actual insider leak (player leak), then I hope the club backs Eth here , we can't have scummy players scheming to get a manager fired.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Did Rangnick not give ETH a list of players he observed to be lazy ass, loser mentality cnuts? If not, why not?

This is where a DOF is needed. Someone out of the manager spotlight, in the position for the long term, who can identify toxic elements in the squad/club and eject them at the earliest opportunity.

Having a new manager coming in every few years and giving everyone a fair chance doesn’t cut it. We’re just doomed to repeat the same cycle over and over, as has happened several times now.

There was a rumour about this explosive dossier. But do you think any professional manager, never mind ETH who has managed a top club in holland, wouldn't notice which players drop their heads first and often when things aren't going well? Unless Ralf is a psychologist, I can't imagine there being anything overly useful that ETH himself couldn't figure out. And he did clear out a bunch of players when he arrived. Most likely the dossier was about which players wanted out so he doesn't have to waste time asking them again.

As for DOF, that will never happen unless Murtough somehow steps aside, or moves on.

 

[Coleyoscar]

Despite what some people imagine, reputable professional journalists don't make up stories. They won't identify their sources but they usually indicate broadly where the stories originate.

Samuel Lockhurst, writing about similar rumblings in the past quoted "sources close to first team players" this phrase often means it's from the people mentioned (for example, in political stories, the phrase "sources close to the Minister" invariably means it's from the Minister). So we can be fairly sure that those historic leaks came from first team players of the time.

This time he uses the phrase "Dressing room sources". Not sure if that is significant. Does it mean someone on the staff but not a player? Is it a player who is not (or is no longer) a first team player? It doesn't sound to me that it originates with current first team players in any case.

 

[Bastian]

Did Rangnick not give ETH a list of players he observed to be lazy ass, loser mentality cnuts? If not, why not?

This is where a DOF is needed. Someone out of the manager spotlight, in the position for the long term, who can identify toxic elements in the squad/club and eject them at the earliest opportunity.

Having a new manager coming in every few years and giving everyone a fair chance doesn’t cut it. We’re just doomed to repeat the same cycle over and over, as has happened several times now.

When he was still in situ he denied that he was compiling that dossier (reported to label players selfish). At the end of April, mind. Back then he did not think players were selfish or unprofessional, but of course, he was still at the helm. He definitely thought a lot of them were shite.

Of course, at that time Lingard was spouting his mouth and Scholes said so publicly (which I found hilarious) so of course the dressing room was full of toxic elements.

I think Erik made as much of an effort as he could to distance himself from Rangnick - at least publicly, and Rangnick being such a happy talker, he probably couldn't speak to him privately anyway - probably in order to not alienate the toxic dressing room further.

We definitely do need highly competent people in charge of the footballing side of things, but I do wonder if any high calibre people would take on such roles at the club whilst the current owners are still here. I'm with you though, if Erik gets the sack we will yet again have do endure these underperforming players getting a chance all over again to prove they are not good enough for where the club should be heading.

 

[Kellyiom]

Disagree completely mate.

The problem starts with the owners and the way they set the expectations. In our club players are treated as assets instead of employees. They are offered over inflated contracts to "protect their value" and an insane job security.

Why? Is it because we don't have the DoF? Or is it maybe that the culture of the club is rotten?

You at a team like Brighton and see that they lost their DoF and manager within their last 12 months. And guess what? Nothing changed. You want to know why? A Brighton fan explained how everything started with their owner and their CEO who built the culture of the club.

The Glazers need to realize this very simple truth: that it's not Rashford, Garnacho, Shaw or Bruno who are the assets. It's Manchester United. Every single employee contributes to the appreciation of the said asset or deprecitation. But not by their value, but by the work they put in. If players are downing tools, then they intentionally lower the value of the club. And every employee that lowers the value of the club deserves the boot, be it 1 or all 20 of them.

Now when it comes to the manager he isn't a class clown to make everyone happy. His job is to get results.

Now the problem comes when the manager is trying to get results, but players deem his methods "too intensive". Should the manager be sacked because the players are intentionally lowering the standards of the club they represent by not putting in the effort? Should the manager be sacked because the players intentionally down tools so they can get the man that is not going to be as intense or as demanding on them?

I"ll leave that for you to ponder, but the point is that any title challenge requires excellent planning, execution and superhuman effort. And if any player or group lowers the standard by even 1% because they don't like it, then they deserve the boot.

Ans this s what ETH is trying to do. While the players he signed are exactly world beaters, they all have a heart and have a fight in them, and they keep going no matter what. Lisandro, Onana, Antony, Malacia and even Eriksen with Casemiro(though I suspect their legs are gone) all keep running and giving 100% even when they're not having the best game.

On the other hand players like Rashford, McTomminay, Sancho and even, AWB and Shaw at times, like to "jog" and ball watch. It's as if putting in the effort is a foreign concept for them. They clearly lack urgency and intensity which compromises the team time and time again be it during pressing sequences or even build up play.

I can keep on going, but the point is that we need a cultural reset. I believe And if we fail to back the manager, we will have another conversation like this around the year mark into the next manager's appointment.

It's quite interesting how these perceived player groups clump into 'British' and 'non-British'.

I don't know what goes on in training or for that matter what goes on in other clubs' sessions but with the technology we have today, I would have thought every player's training would be tracked and monitored. There's got to be some sort of breakdown between training tactics for upcoming games, outright fitness (for stamina & speed) and improvement or practice of skills. It should be relatively easy to work out if certain players are getting swamped or the sessions need more variety as well as comparing them to other PL teams?

I'm definitely no fan of all the stats that have entered the game, just because I don't like betting but I do use data science a lot at uni so for in-game performance we should have detailed statistics on who's doing what and when. EtH and his team can then presumably present it as rationale for training certain aspects as required, he would have the knowledge after all about whether those numbers coming from his team are good, bad or ugly based on what type of game had been played? Or indeed, if he'd messed up and got his tactics wrong.

Got to admit, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we were light years behind other clubs in utilising technology if I'm honest.

 

[ArmaDino]

It's quite interesting how these perceived player groups clump into 'British' and 'non-British'.

I don't know what goes on in training or for that matter what goes on in other clubs' sessions but with the technology we have today, I would have thought every player's training would be tracked and monitored. There's got to be some sort of breakdown between training tactics for upcoming games, outright fitness (for stamina & speed) and improvement or practice of skills. It should be relatively easy to work out if certain players are getting swamped or the sessions need more variety as well as comparing them to other PL teams?

I'm definitely no fan of all the stats that have entered the game, just because I don't like betting but I do use data science a lot at uni so for in-game performance we should have detailed statistics on who's doing what and when. EtH and his team can then presumably present it as rationale for training certain aspects as required, he would have the knowledge after all about whether those numbers coming from his team are good, bad or ugly based on what type of game had been played? Or indeed, if he'd messed up and got his tactics wrong.

Got to admit, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we were light years behind other clubs in utilising technology if I'm honest.

I like how you mentioned that you're not a fan of over analyzing everything, and yet you wrote a post just about that. Fair play though

My post wasn't about the training methods per see, but rather the attitude that some players have. It's clear as day when someone like Pellistri or Mejbri who come from the academy/reserves are willing to run their socks off and then when you have players like McTomminay and Rashford who just jog around the pitch with no urgency, then it's clearly that the problem aren't the training methods, but rather individuals who refuse to put in an effort.

 

[Alek M]

ETH will not be sacked this year. This is just clickbait by the newspapers.

 

[roonster09]

Not everything reported is truth, journalists especially sport journalists make up things and Luckhurst is the biggest culprit. He just sees fans reaction and pulls the story out of his arse.

 

[Kag]

That Luckhurst story is a work of fiction. He’s a terrible advert for sports journalism and he knows it, hence he blocks everybody who calls him out for his lies on social media.

The club would do well to ban him from the ground and make a statement.

 

[The Mitcher]

You can tell 100% English players or staff leaked this.
Since not many of them are in the starting 11, it's easy to squeeze out the rats

Prejudiced much?

 

[Kellyiom]

I like how you mentioned that you're not a fan of over analyzing everything, and yet you wrote a post just about that. Fair play though

My post wasn't about the training methods per see, but rather the attitude that some players have. It's clear as day when someone like Pellistri or Mejbri who come from the academy/reserves are willing to run their socks off and then when you have players like McTomminay and Rashford who just jog around the pitch with no urgency, then it's clearly that the problem aren't the training methods, but rather individuals who refuse to put in an effort.

Haha! Yeah old habits die hard! Whatever the tactics and technology, like you say, the sight test is useful and tells a story.
Wasn't Hannibal last season deemed to be too 'raw' or susceptible to cards, yet now puts in an MotM performance? Where other older pros are relatively casual. Hmm. Similar comments about Hojlund on MotD. Having to unwind a load of embedded behaviour and replace it is going to be a big job.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Personally I think it’s Rashford and Maguire.
Common theme when Rashford is horrendously out of form and suddenly there are leaks again. Maguire gets an incredible amount of defence in the media as well, it seems like he has quite a few mates in the media.

 

[Superunknown]

That reminds me of this small quote in Crimson Tide. Very relevant to the situation.


Any crew member who feels he cannot handle the situation can leave the ship RIGHT NOW.

So to use the navy/ships/sailors metaphor here: it's time to drop quitters (namely Sancho, Maguire and McTominay for starters) on rafts in the middle of the ocean. I prefer to rely on younger and less experienced players who ain't quitting yet, because they have everything to prove and critics to shut down.

What a film. Watched it again recently and it's just excellent.

As far as the leaks and players go: these men get paid a ridiculous amount of money to play a sport. They have to perform. At the moment, they're not performing. I absolutely back the manager if he's criticising the players for not working hard enough, because they're not. To leak stories or whatever to the press is weak. They should be focusing on doing their job better. There's no sense of professionalism.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

Breaking Bald

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Is he capable of building, though? I haven’t seen enough signs of that. I haven’t been impressed by his signings so far.

I want to see what ETH and the current group of players can do in the next few weeks (which means that he shouldn’t be sacked anytime soon). However, if it doesn’t work and we decide to have an overhaul of our team, then I don’t want him to lead it or be part of it.

Ok, fine. You’re entitled to your opinion. I’m glad it’s not you making the decisions, though.

 

[Theo88]

A great many years ago, Sir Alex won against Rangers in a cup final. He went on to say his team was a disgrace. He moved on to become one of the most successful managers in the game

Fast forward to today. E10H boots Maguire and Sancho and Tominay off the team, doing exactly what all fans have been asking for ages. He is now the prime evil.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Personally I think it’s Rashford and Maguire.
Common theme when Rashford is horrendously out of form and suddenly there are leaks again. Maguire gets an incredible amount of defence in the media as well, it seems like he has quite a few mates in the media.

Happens too often to be a coincidence.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I'm still 110% behind the manager. We can't keep going round and round not knowing the actual problem.

Our problem is not the manager. We have changed 5 managers post SAF. Every single one of them ended up the same way.

The real problems?
1) The board incompetency
2) Players discipline issues

 

[zaafi]

I'm so sick of these whiny fecks who always complain about the manager. Maybe if you weren't so shit at playing football, he wouldn't criticise you.

 

[RuudTom83]

The manager can survive any number of leaks as long as the team is winning...EtH has a very winnable run of games now...5-6 wins on the bounce, plus a handful of returning players will put him a strong position again.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

A great many years ago, Sir Alex won against Rangers in a cup final. He went on to say his team was a disgrace. He moved on to become one of the most successful managers in the game

Fast forward to today. E10H boots Maguire and Sancho and Tominay off the team, doing exactly what all fans have been asking for ages. He is now the prime evil.

And meanwhile, over in the Erik vs Sancho thread, every 30 minutes an ‘expert’ pops up to tell us that The Boss would never have done the same as Erik (which was basically to tell the truth) in that situation.

Bizarre bunch!

 

[Amir]

A great many years ago, Sir Alex won against Rangers in a cup final. He went on to say his team was a disgrace. He moved on to become one of the most successful managers in the game

Fast forward to today. E10H boots Maguire and Sancho and Tominay off the team, doing exactly what all fans have been asking for ages. He is now the prime evil.

Fergie also apologised for it and admitted it wasn't his finest moment. So that might not be a great example as he himself thought it WASN'T good management.

 

[United Hobbit]

While I'm starting to have doubts over ETH (will judge him properly when we aren't riddled with injuries), I hope the club backs him and the snakes are shown the door before him. Set some standards FFS.

Also what good is it doing for your Mainoos/Garnachos/Hannibals to be around these supposedly "senior" players who are bad apples? The difference in attitude and work rate between the young players who are keen to impress and the undroppables is very apparent.

Why we turned down £30m for McT god only knows. Could have brought at least one replacement... although I don't think it's him, he doesn't seem snakey enough. While Fred would be on the eventually needs to be replaced list you couldn't question his attitude

Its frustrating we have such a paper thin squad at the moment, if we had more players available I'd like to see ETH properly establish some authority and banish the lazy/leaking/need selling to the reserves/bench.

ETH needs to be backed in order to try and over throw this toxic culture around the club to show the players they are not bigger than the club. Otherwise we will just rinse and repeat.

It's absolutely ridiculous we don't have a proper DOF. You think we would want to as surely it'll be better economically in the long run rather than all the money we've wasted on signings who weren't suitable

 

[Manutd GOGOGO]

Absolutely back the manager here... This is a good opportunity to "squeeze" and "chase" out every single rat in the club. Reset the culture with hard work and discipline right in front.

 

[Cnaiür urs Skiötha]

I’d like to back Ten Haag here to be honest considering I can’t stand a lot of our players, it’s people like Maguire, Rashford, Martial, Bruno, Shaw, Sancho, McTominay we should be getting rid of before the manager, they’re all here years, they’ve done nothing, bin them and move on,

I agree to an extent that we need to get rid of the core of our team. Not saying they are not good footballers but we would have needed more of a fresh start. It is difficult with the stupid contracts we give out though.

 

[Longlivekeano]

If you can’t take criticism on the chin and get on with it, then you don’t belong in the industry. Lee sharpe was given hair-dryer treatment after scoring a hat trick against Arsenal and a winner against another team- just for his celebrations.

 

[astracrazy]

I wonder if the whole leaks thing was actually just BS now moving forward from last week.

It sounds and looks a happy camp if I'm honest. The reports of a successful family team BBQ Sunday going down well, the joking and chatting on the side lines yesterday. It doesn't look like a dressing room of unhappy players.

Either the leaks didn't happen, or its a disgruntled player (take a guess) causing shit and everyone knows it.