I'm genuinely not sure if we're agreeing or disagreeing? Just to clarify I think this is an atrocious adaptation of Tolkien but in the spirit of the post-modern age I'm willing to overlook that and give it a chance as a piece of TV in its own right. But it's not very good TV either unfortunately.
Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power
- Thread starter DWelbz19
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I do agree, the scale didn't fit the dramatic nature of the dialogue in previous episodes. It wasn't 1 village though, they made a point in the previous episode to say that several villages came to the tower. But I think the scale needed to be increased so rather than say 50-75 people dying it would be more like 300-500. But to do that, you'd also need to increase the amount of Orcs to make it justified that they were a genuine threat and the villagers stood no real chance. It would then give the Numenorians a harder task to deal with the Orcs and make their attack that more heroic.
I have no idea why so many are whinging about this episode on here. I thought it was very good for the most part apart from the logic associated with the charge. If they arrived at the crest of a hill, saw what was happening, and then charged, it'd have been fine.
We're definitely discussing stuff as this is not a fan club but legit forum. TV show could be better, Galadriel should be 2 meters long and looking down on Halbrand and Numenorians, but that would force every elvish character to be played by a basketball player. I guess we all secretly want Elrond to be played by Shaquille O'Neal, but compromise has to be made somewhere and they need to cut on some aspects.
If you look at Galadriel she's an actress with some elvish face features that fit the picture. Actress was decent in other stuff she played, but this time it looks genuinely rushed, perhaps she'll have more freedom to express herself in later seasons as now she's working on script that tells her to be a relentless Terminator, especially when she gave hell to the Numenorian sailors with no fight experience whatsoever.
To be honest I look on Witcher or Wheel of Time and I see some good stuff mixed with clearly rushed decisions. Streaming platforms need content and they will produce it in most efficient way in growing numbers, every single year.
In short - we just gonna have to deal with it. There are some good moments in Rings of Power, like Adar tactically destroying Galadriel, so hope is there she will change into strategist rather than Jackie Chan.
I thought Numenorians were like 7 feet tall and Elendil considered tall even amongst them?
We're definitely discussing stuff as this is not a fan club but legit forum. TV show could be better, Galadriel should be 2 meters long and looking down on Halbrand and Numenorians, but that would force every elvish character to be played by a basketball player. I guess we all secretly want Elrond to be played by Shaquille O'Neal, but compromise has to be made somewhere and they need to cut on some aspects.
If you look at Galadriel she's an actress with some elvish face features that fit the picture. Actress was decent in other stuff she played, but this time it looks genuinely rushed, perhaps she'll have more freedom to express herself in later seasons as now she's working on script that tells her to be a relentless Terminator, especially when she gave hell to the Numenorian sailors with no fight experience whatsoever.
To be honest I look on Witcher or Wheel of Time and I see some good stuff mixed with clearly rushed decisions. Streaming platforms need content and they will produce it in most efficient way in growing numbers, every single year.
In short - we just gonna have to deal with it. There are some good moments in Rings of Power, like Adar tactically destroying Galadriel, so hope is there she will change into strategist rather than Jackie Chan.
That’s one reason why he’s a great casting, as his incredible voice conveys his imposing physical presence.
That's right. Elendil would have to be played by someone taller than Karim Abdul Jabbar.
I guess only CGI could show it realistically enough, but that would add even more controversy.
And yet to spend this much money and not have good writers seems crazy.
Superb point. Good writers with self respect won't take the job where their creativity will be heavily influenced by corpo agenda and deadline days forcing them to drop huge chunk of their ideas into the bin. This is why British genius like Alex Garland works alone and make movies for 10m looking like 50m without any forced suggestions from above.
Peter Jackson was left out also because he took time in building his own sets, reading the actual source material and going through countless drafts to choose possible best solutions.
The problem is that the source material itself is rather thin and Tolkien's legendarium is rather dated. Put those together and of course you are going to get a Bad Robot version of Tolkien filling the gap. This series very much reminds me in tone (and to some extent content) of The Rise of Skywalker.
It would have been nice to also build up a bit to the Numenorean charge - they basically just teleported onto a hill in full gallop and knew exactly where the small gaggle of orcs would be. Kind of sums up the writing so far, it just happened. Like Isildur's random introduction into the battle, Adar deciding letting Arondir go was a good move, that conveniently placed statue of Sauron hidden behind some leaves etc. it moves the plot forward but more care could have been given.
Well the tower originates back to the 1st Age and it was built by Sauron/Morgoth. The elves then took it over as an observation post to watch over those pesky humans. Its only natural that the elves would like the nature to grow and cover up the sculptures of the enemy. Both given they love nature and they wouldn't want to be reminded of those times every day. That part made sense to me.
They also knew where the orcs would be because they were told several episodes again by Halbrand. Who I suppose guessed that the humans would flee to the tower as I suppose it's a Helms Deep scenario where you'd flee to the building which is easily defendable. Given that the Numenorians were riding too the Tower and the village lay between the tower and where they were riding from it makes sense they found them easily enough. The question i'd like to know is given that nobody (from several nearby villages) recognised Halbrand, how did he know about the Tower in the first place given he's clearly not a local? He may originate from the East side of the Southlands and we'd have to assume that all of the Southlands citizens knew about the Tower.
Isildur was given permission by the Queen Regent to ride into battle as he clearly wanted to get involved and help his father/friends. I dont think that was all that much of an issue, I actually liked that the Queen Regent stayed away from the battle like the Generals of Medieval times.
Yeah I don't get that connection at all. It's a level above the Hobbits films for example and although I hate the Hobbit films i'd still rate them higher than the absolute turd that was Rise of Skywalker. I just feel like you hate the show and if that's the case, then don't watch it. But then I get baffled by people spending their time watching things they hate, doesn't really compute to me. I'd rather spend my time watching something I enjoy and be able to discuss something I enjoy then spend hours watching something I hate to then moan about it. Each to their own.
Well because
he is scooby doo fan fiction Sauron so he built it himself
It’s because we’ve stopped bullying nerds. They’ve gotten far too complacent
The nerds have taken over and you now flip burgers for us
I want to give it a chance because I like Tolkien and it's not all bad - only about 50%. And I'm intrigued by the way modern corporations seen incapable of delivering no matter how much money they throw at a concept.
RoS was all about repackaging classic references and old characters into cinematic brand moments, but with no plot coherence whatsoever, cliched characterisation and clunky dialogue.
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It's thin and on top that it's also unfinished by Tolkien himself. Looks even more mindboggling why Jackson was isolated from any creative work, but eight episodes per season sounds right as they'll try to put the key events in without too much stretching.
Rise of Skywalker was such a weird movie. Then you see farce of Mark Hamill trying to be nice while doing interviews... Rings of Power surely won't be that bad, right ?
It seems a bit of a reach on all those counts.
Re it's existence isn't the issue for me but the elves hated Sauron, surely it would have been destroyed? Either make it really well hidden or have some reasoning for them leaving it.
Re Halbrand he is from somewhere else (if his people were already killed by the orcs I guess wherever their tunnel was coming from) but all he's told us is that orcs are in the Southlands. Being generous let's assume that tower is the only defensible position for hundreds of miles and they inevitably will go there, we just see them appear charging on horseback because Amazon wanted that shot with the camera coming over the hill - where's the build up or even some dialogue there, a bit of a back story or anything.
Re Isildur, why was he there though and not with the soldiers we know are his level/mates? He was just there because the writers wanted him to save Elendil but have him make some kind of an entrance so he couldn't be with the main charge, I get it, he's obviously going to be a main character but it wouldn't have been that hard to write in some reason he was on the hill and apparently not with any unit given he was riding around behind the queen out of formation.
In isolation these things aren't really an issue but there's so damn many of them. It's annoying because I actually like the idea of seeing the creation of Mordor, the orcs wanting a homeland and the tunnels not really being tunnels and misleading us. It just feels like they've spent all this money on effects and moments and then 2 seconds on putting it all together. Just like Adar's reason for letting Arondir go, literally the most skilled opposition facing him, because he wanted to "deliver a message", that must have taken them so long to come up with.
Eventually the people who make literally all television, film and media will realise there’s no pleasing you, and you’ll be back in our lockers, where you belong!
TV producers, Amazon Prime, Galadriel et al should repent for daring to adapt the holy scriptures of Tolkien - who I still believe was a Norman Bates character fo' real.
Wasn't he only allowed on the ship as a stablehand? So he probably wasn't a part of any 'unit' of war and was there as backup should things start to go south.
1. I'm not even sure it was a statue though, wasn't it engraved into the wall? Destroying it would therefore mean replacing all the stone, possible, but easier to just let nature (which they love) cover it up instead.
2. We were told for several episodes that was where they would be though, how much more dialogue do we need?
3. Isildur was a stable keep, not enlisted as a soldier.
I do agree that some of the writing needed more refining. For example, Theo knowing where the hilt was could have been explained very easily by having a Mordor style speech (like what happens with Frodo when he has the ring on) calling out to Theo. Then radio silence on the black speech when the covered hilt (which was the axe) was handed to him later on. It's the details they're missing out on.
I can let 1 and 3 go - as said alone they're not huge issues it's just the feeling of the situation being contrived isn't hidden. Good point on Isildur, then I guess I'm wondering why he was in full armour but at least it's a reason! I guess you agree with me on Adar letting Arondir go.
2 I really don't get. Unless there's some dialogue I have forgotten it's simply been Halbrand saying his people fell foul of orcs and generally saying where he's from in a very vague way - there's been nothing about the tower or village(s) we've seen. Given it was a bit of a Helm's deep copy, think of how the films introduced it with Wormtongue's voiceover, it takes a few seconds but it then doesn't feel so instant, we also had a good period of the actual travel to these places which is what we're missing here (i.e. Aragorn injured and seeing the Uruk-hai on his horse, the warg attack, decision to abandon Edoras).
The black speech idea is a nice one, again would be easy for the audience to follow and easy to implement. I do also agree they got the scale of this battle wrong, it felt like there was nearly no threat from the orcs.
I am hopeful that the scale is just going to keep building every season and this is all just some quick groundwork we're getting and character intros which then leads into some kind of climax now before the main story begins in season 2. I do think they will listen to critics because (when you ignore the stupid over the top criticism which is just hyperbole) there are a lot of people bemoaning the writing and I hope they take a bit more time with it.
The latest episode was really enjoyable.
2. The Queen Regent and Galadriel asked Halbrand where he thought Southlanders would flee too and he said "this tower". So that's why they rode there. It was about 2 episodes ago.
Adar letting Arondir is odd, so hopefully they explain a proper reason rather than just the usual "give them a message" troupe. Oh the scale will have to increase, Mordor is just starting to get made, we haven't seen the Numenorian army yet, nor have we seen Elves or Dwarves in full force. As I said before, it's a small skirmish, a little taste of things to come. But personally, I hope they tighten up the action sequences because I feel thats been the weakest part of this season, dialogues been great imo, visuals brilliant, music fantastic. Writing has it's ups and downs but the action has been a little underwhelming and poorly executed. The fight with the big orc being a prime example. Still it's early days, in season 1 of GoT they didn't even show the main battle on screen and we saw how that show ended so there's plenty of room for growth.
What was wrong with the Arondir-Orc fight? Other than the cliched ending.
Yeah I hated that wwe orc, I kind of let that go as it is a pg13 and I guess it’s a bit more fun for younger audience. I did think when we first saw that scary orc in episode 1 or 2 they’d be a lot more scary in general but they’ve kind of reverted back to being punch bags now. I genuinely missed that re the tower tip off so at least that makes more sense now, appreciated.
I remember being so disappointed at that GOT episode but it made sense. Better to not show it than show something bad, then I guess the budget increased and they could show things like the Dothraki attack on the wagon which cost them a huge amount of money to make.
Just the usual bollocks of big Orc playing with Arondir rather than just killing him which he could clearly do if he wanted. It started off well, but again, I think it was the direction in that Arondir gets tossed about several times rather than actually getting wounded himself. It came across as a bit like a 90's tv show if i'm honest.
That type of fight sequence could have been like one of those famous Jason Bourne hand combat fight sequences. Instead it just ended up with lots of pushing and throwing into things, it was a bit shit. I only watched it the once mind maybe it wouldn't be so bad on 2nd viewing.
One thing I’ve learnt in life, people will moan about absolutely everything. Too much throwing? Christ what a world.
It's not like they've got over a billion quid budget for some decent writers eh?
Yeah ok James Joyce we get it
I mean how much does Philippa Boyens even cost?
That happens in Game of Thrones quite a lot, also - it is not something solely from the past. Oberyn/Mountain fight has a nonsensical end, for example - an experienced and cunning warrior being turned into an idiot just when he is about to win.
This happens in most action films/tv series.
"As long as there is love, a home can never be truly dark"
My stomach is still upset over this crap.
The woman who helped to write the Hobbit trilogy and came up with the horrific love story triangle. I remember her saying to keep females interested in films they need a love story to follow and be able to route for couples. feck no.
Any theories on who sauron is yet?
Personally I don't think he's been seen in the show yet. I think it's pretty clear who Halbrand is though, I'm fully onboard that he's
The King of the Dead that Aragorn meets in ROTK.
Galadriel was actually a beast mode terminator in the lore CMIIW
That Jack Black lookalike