The Make A Fecking Sub ETH Thread

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L1nk

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Weghorse is absolute Shite right now. He provided no outlet ALL game you can see what he's there for and he may take a few games to bed in but why has he started 2 games when we were 100% a better team without him. 2 games started 1 draw 1 loss...

It isn't rocket science bed the guy in slowly like we did with Casemiro. He wasn't thrown in to start game after game.

Garnacho should have come on at 70mins into the game for Weghorse at least he would have ran at the arsenal defense and if not scored pushed them back repeatedly. The pressure built until arsenal nabbed a goal.

100% manager to blame for this loss to arsenal.
He's bringing in Weghorst because our squad is completely thin on players, yes we could play Rashford there but Rashford is clearly better on the left, Martial is injured, Casemiro is out, I don't know what you genuinely want him to do?

I agree Garnacho should have come on earlier and Eriksen should have been the one to go off for Fred
 

Mr Pigeon

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Stop lying to yourselves, at 2-2 away at the league leaders there is no one worth bringing on in this scenario. That’s reflection of the squad not him
With most games I'd agree but it was pretty clear that we needed fresh legs on the pitch. The team were all absolutely shattered and being bombarded by Arsenal. That he put Garnacho on after their goal showed that. Ten Hag was hoping for a draw and had yet another reality check about the PL tonight.
 

RedStarUnited

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I don’t disagree, but having an outlet wouldn’t mean much when we could hardly hold on to the ball. The midfield was getting bypassed and the fullbacks getting pinned back. We didn’t have the legs or quality in midfield to hold on. Garnacho wouldn’t help us in that regard.

There was no one to bring on to fix that.
He would help with having another player to attack with. What exactly did the striker do? And why did he put him on when the game was done?
 

charlenefan

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Other than Garnacho to give us some extra omph on the break I don't know what he could have done? AWB was fecked but we had no RB on the bench, Eriksen was fecked but we had no more midfielders on the bench. And don't say bring on kids because that's not going to happen when you're hanging on
 

Alek M

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Garnacho for Weghorst at 80th minute. Add more pace! Elanga for Eriksen. Drop bruno in midfield. Wtf. We needed fresh legs to press and protect the 2:2 and maybe counter.
 

Robert

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Other than Garnacho to give us some extra omph on the break I don't know what he could have done? AWB was fecked but we had no RB on the bench, Eriksen was fecked but we had no more midfielders on the bench. And don't say bring on kids because that's not going to happen when you're hanging on
Yeah I was frustrated by the lack of subs but when I think about it like this I can sort of understand
 

Get In Scholesy

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He would help with having another player to attack with. What exactly did the striker do? And why did he put him on when the game was done?
At that point 3-2 down you do what you can to salvage the result, its straightforward forward to throw on an attacker.

However at 2-2 I think its seen as a good result away from home, if he throws a striker to chase the win we and concede he would get hell for that decision.
 

Get In Scholesy

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With most games I'd agree but it was pretty clear that we needed fresh legs on the pitch. The team were all absolutely shattered and being bombarded by Arsenal. That he put Garnacho on after their goal showed that. Ten Hag was hoping for a draw and had yet another reality check about the PL tonight.
Fresh legs don’t always mean being defensively solid. We didn’t have the personnel to deal with Arsenal’s squad and plan today.
However, I do agree with ETH getting a reality check, hopefully he got several to take away from that game.
 

Borys

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Our squad options are far from impressive, but ETH has some trust issues. Especially when it comes to subbing Eriksen and Bruno.
 

Irwin99

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Yes the mighty Elanga, Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia should have all been brought on to win us the match against the best side in the league. Garnacho possibly could have come on sooner but other than that i'm really not seeing much he could have done.

Fred was disappointing when he came on (wasn't terrible, tried hard etc). He's been a good impact sub at times this season but he didn't help wrestle the midfield away from Arsenal.
 

roseguy64

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I was screaming for Pellistri and Garnacho to come on for Weghorst and Eriksen. Last 10 minutes give them the ball and have them run at the tired Arsenal backline. Infuriating.

Or even sub on Maguire and go 3 at the back.

DO SOMETHING
 

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weso26
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I was screaming for Pellistri and Garnacho to come on for Weghorst and Eriksen. Last 10 minutes give them the ball and have them run at the tired Arsenal backline. Infuriating.

Or even sub on Maguire and go 3 at the back.

DO SOMETHING
Exactly. DO SOMETHING.
 

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weso26
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Yes the mighty Elanga, Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia should have all been brought on to win us the match against the best side in the league. Garnacho possibly could have come on sooner but other than that i'm really not seeing much he could have done.

Fred was disappointing when he came on (wasn't terrible, tried hard etc). He's been a good impact sub at times this season but he didn't help wrestle the midfield away from Arsenal.
Jesus Christ. We did nothing when Arsenal were pissing all over us and we lost. The only surprise was that it took Arsenal so long to score.

Did that work? Did letting Arsenal have chance after chance work? No. We lost.

I would much prefer if we are a bit proactive and try and at least get a point.
 

Kopral Jono

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This is unrelated but why won't Ten Hag blame the officials for once on his post-match interviews? I'm not saying he should say things that could get him banned from the dugout, but a sly dig about the penalty incident midweek and Zinchenko being offside in the lead-up to Arsenal's third today would have been nice.
 
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Thought he gave up all initiative with the Antony sub, with our lump of lard up top, after that we only had Rashford who posed a threat, gave all the advantage to Arsenal.
Game was screaming from United’s point of view to get the lump off and get another threat (Garnacho) on asap, without that it was too easily for Arsenal.
 

Idxomer

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It's so infuriating that he keeps moving Bruno to the right. Not only Bruno is the worst playmaker in a top team you could put on the wings but also he can't defend in that position to save his life.
 

PoTMS

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Worrying thing is he doesn't seem to learn his lesson.
 

Waynne

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Yes the mighty Elanga, Maguire, Lindelof, Malacia should have all been brought on to win us the match against the best side in the league. Garnacho possibly could have come on sooner but other than that i'm really not seeing much he could have done.

Fred was disappointing when he came on (wasn't terrible, tried hard etc). He's been a good impact sub at times this season but he didn't help wrestle the midfield away from Arsenal.
I'd rather have Elanga run around, trying to disrupt their play than inviting constant pressure . I'm not expecting him to provide any goal threat but at least having a fresh pair of legs in the middle of the park would be helpful.
 

Irwin99

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Jesus Christ. We did nothing when Arsenal were pissing all over us and we lost. The only surprise was that it took Arsenal so long to score.

Did that work? Did letting Arsenal have chance after chance work? No. We lost.

I would much prefer if we are a bit proactive and try and at least get a point.
They're a better team than us, way further ahead than us in their rebuild, and have a very realistic chance at winning the league and we just gave them a fecking tough game-probably their hardest three points of the season. Of course you're going to be under pressure against Arsenal and in the last twenty minutes we just wasted any counter attacking opportunities.

Again, can you name a player, other than Garnacho who would have changed this result? Can you name a midfielder who could have come on and wrestled the midfield back? 'cause Fred sure as hell didn't.

Also, i don't think it would have been a travesty of a result if the game had ended a draw. Arsenal were the better team and deserved it but it's not as if they smashed us the whole game.
 

Red in STL

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The mistake was to put Fred on for Antony, that change should have been for Eriksen, Antony was our main outlet and he did it well, it's not a coincidence that after he went off Arsenal were all over us, Garnacoh should have been on for Weghorst with 15-20 to go
 

Waynne

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They're a better team than us, way further ahead than us in their rebuild, and have a very realistic chance at winning the league and we just gave them a fecking tough game-probably their hardest three points of the season. Of course you're going to be under pressure against Arsenal and in the last twenty minutes we just wasted any counter attacking opportunities.

Again, can you name a player, other than Garnacho who would have changed this result? Can you name a midfielder who could have come on and wrestled the midfield back? 'cause Fred sure as hell didn't.

Also, i don't think it would have been a travesty of a result if the game had ended a draw. Arsenal were the better team and deserved it but it's not as if they smashed us the whole game.
I'm sure many here know that.

The issue I have is not that we lost. Its the manner in losing. We were on the ropes for a good 20 minutes. If you're team is struggling to contain the pressure, with a bunch of tires legs out there your best bet is to make a substitution to try and see the game out at 2-2. Bring on fresh legs and pack the midfield to frustrate and try and contain the pressure because Arsenal are not going to go route 1 for the winner.

Sometimes parking the bus would suffice to get something from a game and in this case we had about 20 minutes or so to pull it off.
 

Mcking

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Other than Garnacho to give us some extra omph on the break I don't know what he could have done? AWB was fecked but we had no RB on the bench, Eriksen was fecked but we had no more midfielders on the bench. And don't say bring on kids because that's not going to happen when you're hanging on
Excuses. Since he had little options, why didn't he bring on the one option he had, who has already proven to be a game changer for us? Funny that immediately Arsenal scored, he managed to figure out that Garnacho is allowed to get on a pitch.
 

Irwin99

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I'm sure many here know that.

The issue I have is not that we lost. Its the manner in losing. We were on the ropes for a good 20 minutes. If you're team is struggling to contain the pressure, with a bunch of tires legs out there your best bet is to make a substitution to try and see the game out at 2-2. Bring on fresh legs and pack the midfield to frustrate and try and contain the pressure because Arsenal are not going to go route 1 for the winner.

Sometimes parking the bus would suffice to get something from a game and in this case we had about 20 minutes or so to pull it off.
Well we did bring on fresh legs and pack the midfield, we brought on Fred for Antony, who, to be honest was the most obvious sub we had but still made almost zero impact. In fact it probably even made the team worse.

I can see why people are saying 'bring on fresh legs' but other than Eriksen lasting the 90 i'm not sure what people expect in terms of quality or workrate in their replacements. Bruno and Rashford are always going to be kept on and I didn't think Weghorst looked particularly tired. I personally don't think Elanga or Pellistri would have made a blind bit of difference against Arsenal. We better hope Martial, Sancho and Dalot come back soon because our bench looks dire (although defensively decent I guess)
 

DarkXaero

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Things needed to change in the last 10-15 minutes of the match tonight, but we didn't have those changes on the bench tonight. Fred was the only one, and then there's nothing after that. Yes, ideally you would bring on Garnacho to go for the win at 2-2, but Garnacho is not stopping our midfield from being thoroughly outplayed and he makes us worse defensively. So that risk was there, and unfortunately, their winner came in the 90th minute, when it was too late for us to reply back. Ultimately, we need much better squad depth.
 

Mcking

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Weird reply I said he could have brought on Garnacho. Can you not read?
He had Garnacho and didn't bring him on. What makes you think he'd have brought in another midfielder for Eriksen, or another RB for Wan-Bissaka? It wasn't a matter of not having options, he had one which has clearly worked many times in the past but didn't use it.
 

Samid

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They're a better team than us, way further ahead than us in their rebuild, and have a very realistic chance at winning the league and we just gave them a fecking tough game-probably their hardest three points of the season. Of course you're going to be under pressure against Arsenal and in the last twenty minutes we just wasted any counter attacking opportunities.

Again, can you name a player, other than Garnacho who would have changed this result? Can you name a midfielder who could have come on and wrestled the midfield back? 'cause Fred sure as hell didn't.

Also, i don't think it would have been a travesty of a result if the game had ended a draw. Arsenal were the better team and deserved it but it's not as if they smashed us the whole game.
Has it occurred to you why we wasted counter attacks? Because our front four was Eriksen (dead legs), Bruno (out of position on the wing where he's useless), Weghorst (slow, can't run) and Rashford. Rashford was a one man attack and all they had to do was nullify him, which is quite easy while dealing with one man attacks.

Compare this:

McFred
Bruno - Eriksen - Rashford
Weghorst

To potentially:

McFred
Elanga - Bruno - Garnacho
Rashford

Elanga, while being a donkey, would at least offer fresh legs, pace and width. Weghorst was only offering the donkey part.

Garnacho helped change the game vs City. Is he one week later not good enough to get minutes vs Arsenal? Bruno also changed the game vs City, he did it while playing centrally. Why shove him to the wing just to shoehorn Eriksen in who looked like a pensioner after the break? Eriksen playing 90 minutes here is a crime.

Some of you struggle to understand the concept of attack being a form of defence. Quite often it's the best form of defence. We had no attack once Antony went off. That meant Arsenal could keep piling on the pressure. We had nowhere to go. All we had was hoofing it out of danger, only for them to regain possession and attack again. Now compare that to if we had Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford and fresh legs Elanga as our front 4. That would automatically peg Arsenal back, otherwise we'd pick them apart on the counter. Keeping Arsenal's defence honest would've relieved quite a lot of pressure off our defence and midfield. We would've had more attacking outlets and more of the possession since we wouldn't be hoofing it to no man's land every time.



You can take as much comfort in "we gave them a tough game and hardest 3 points of the season" as you want but the cold hard reality is Arsenal battered us. Whilst they are a better team and we were missing Casemiro, we let them batter us to this extent. The game was one way traffic the entire second half and the manager did absolutely nothing to try and stop the rot.
 

Stadjer

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Garnacho was bought on against Palace... he didnt do anything. Bringing on Garnacho isnt a certain gamechanger like some seem to think it is. He might not even been fit or didnt do well in training, who knows.

People wanted to take of Rashford during halftime against City. ETH was an idiot for not doing that. If ETH doesnt make a sub he does that for a reason. I would trust his judgement more than someone here....
 

The Purley King

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Weghorst did pretty well until he ran out of gas. Held the ball up well and pressed well.
Garnacho should have come on way earlier for Antony, if not started.
We were too passive second half but we were clearly leggy and subs should have been made earlier.
May not have changed the result but we could all see what was about to happen just a surprise it took so long
 

Dion

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Can't understand why this is a constant with our managers. It beggars belief.
It's constant because fans have no idea how other clubs do things so complain despite managers being well within average for the league. Solskjaer had the earliest average first, second and third substitution time in the league last season and people were constantly moaning for him to make substitutions earlier.

Watch Man City or Liverpool and you'd be really frustrated.
 

Dion

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Has it occurred to you why we wasted counter attacks? Because our front four was Eriksen (dead legs), Bruno (out of position on the wing where he's useless), Weghorst (slow, can't run) and Rashford. Rashford was a one man attack and all they had to do was nullify him, which is quite easy while dealing with one man attacks.

Compare this:

McFred
Bruno - Eriksen - Rashford
Weghorst

To potentially:

McFred
Elanga - Bruno - Garnacho
Rashford

Elanga, while being a donkey, would at least offer fresh legs, pace and width. Weghorst was only offering the donkey part.

Garnacho helped change the game vs City. Is he one week later not good enough to get minutes vs Arsenal? Bruno also changed the game vs City, he did it while playing centrally. Why shove him to the wing just to shoehorn Eriksen in who looked like a pensioner after the break? Eriksen playing 90 minutes here is a crime.

Some of you struggle to understand the concept of attack being a form of defence. Quite often it's the best form of defence. We had no attack once Antony went off. That meant Arsenal could keep piling on the pressure. We had nowhere to go. All we had was hoofing it out of danger, only for them to regain possession and attack again. Now compare that to if we had Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford and fresh legs Elanga as our front 4. That would automatically peg Arsenal back, otherwise we'd pick them apart on the counter. Keeping Arsenal's defence honest would've relieved quite a lot of pressure off our defence and midfield. We would've had more attacking outlets and more of the possession since we wouldn't be hoofing it to no man's land every time.



You can take as much comfort in "we gave them a tough game and hardest 3 points of the season" as you want but the cold hard reality is Arsenal battered us. Whilst they are a better team and we were missing Casemiro, we let them batter us to this extent. The game was one way traffic the entire second half and the manager did absolutely nothing to try and stop the rot.
He clearly wanted to pack the midfield and make it harder for Arsenal to run at the back line, you act like playing 4 central/attacking midfielders wasn't a change or a choice when it clearly was both. He could have thrown on Garnacho and Elanga and we might have scored on the counter or we might have immediately conceded down the now completely empty flanks.
 

Irwin99

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Has it occurred to you why we wasted counter attacks? Because our front four was Eriksen (dead legs), Bruno (out of position on the wing where he's useless), Weghorst (slow, can't run) and Rashford. Rashford was a one man attack and all they had to do was nullify him, which is quite easy while dealing with one man attacks.


Elanga, while being a donkey, would at least offer fresh legs, pace and width. Weghorst was only offering the donkey part.

Garnacho helped change the game vs City. Is he one week later not good enough to get minutes vs Arsenal? Bruno also changed the game vs City, he did it while playing centrally. Why shove him to the wing just to shoehorn Eriksen in who looked like a pensioner after the break? Eriksen playing 90 minutes here is a crime.

Some of you struggle to understand the concept of attack being a form of defence. Quite often it's the best form of defence. We had no attack once Antony went off. That meant Arsenal could keep piling on the pressure. We had nowhere to go. All we had was hoofing it out of danger, only for them to regain possession and attack again. Now compare that to if we had Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford and fresh legs Elanga as our front 4. That would automatically peg Arsenal back, otherwise we'd pick them apart on the counter. Keeping Arsenal's defence honest would've relieved quite a lot of pressure off our defence and midfield. We would've had more attacking outlets and more of the possession since we wouldn't be hoofing it to no man's land every time.

You can take as much comfort in "we gave them a tough game and hardest 3 points of the season" as you want but the cold hard reality is Arsenal battered us. Whilst they are a better team and we were missing Casemiro, we let them batter us to this extent. The game was one way traffic the entire second half and the manager did absolutely nothing to try and stop the rot.
EtH basically just said (video below) that he has no bench other than Ganacho and the reason he didn't take Weghorst off was because of the pressing he offered and the set piece defending. I don't think Weghorst looked that tired and as EtH says in the video Rashford is not going to come off and Bruno always carried a threat. Garnancho could have come on for Antony but that probably wouldn't have helped the midfield so he brought Fred, which to be fair didn't help either. I agree that Eriksen might have been the better choice to sub though but i completely disagree how effective his bench options were to change the match.

We were under massive pressure against the best team in the league and we're quite a bit away from them; even so i really don't think they battered us the whole game (last twenty minutes yes). A draw wouldn't exactly have been the greatest travesty or injustice imaginable.

 

Waynne

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Well we did bring on fresh legs and pack the midfield, we brought on Fred for Antony, who, to be honest was the most obvious sub we had but still made almost zero impact. In fact it probably even made the team worse.

I can see why people are saying 'bring on fresh legs' but other than Eriksen lasting the 90 i'm not sure what people expect in terms of quality or workrate in their replacements. Bruno and Rashford are always going to be kept on and I didn't think Weghorst looked particularly tired. I personally don't think Elanga or Pellistri would have made a blind bit of difference against Arsenal. We better hope Martial, Sancho and Dalot come back soon because our bench looks dire (although defensively decent I guess)
Bring on some fresh legs and change the setup. Default to a defensive shape and see out the game. What shape that is I have no idea but clearly what was going on wasn't working for us.
Then again it might be down to how the players reacted to situations on the field cause Ten Hag's post match press conference he spoke about a winning championship mentality.
What I also don't understand is the Garnacho sub so late on in the game. What was the meaning of that?

Very strange decisions but overall I'm not bashing Ten Hag. He's only just starting out and the squad is currently paper thin. We can only build from here but we could have came away from this game with at least a point.
 

charlenefan

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He had Garnacho and didn't bring him on. What makes you think he'd have brought in another midfielder for Eriksen, or another RB for Wan-Bissaka? It wasn't a matter of not having options, he had one which has clearly worked many times in the past but didn't use it.
you're being ridiculous

goodnight
 

criticalanalysis

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Some of you cnuts don't deserve ETH and the progress we've made so far this season.

Coward? Fraudulent? Feck off.

He's not perfect and of course he can improve but watch your reactionary dumb takes. Leave it in the match day thread.
 

FrankDrebin

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United fans : " Make a fecking sub, Hag ! "

Ten Hag quickly looks over at the bench :
 

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They're a better team than us, way further ahead than us in their rebuild, and have a very realistic chance at winning the league and we just gave them a fecking tough game-probably their hardest three points of the season. Of course you're going to be under pressure against Arsenal and in the last twenty minutes we just wasted any counter attacking opportunities.

Again, can you name a player, other than Garnacho who would have changed this result? Can you name a midfielder who could have come on and wrestled the midfield back? 'cause Fred sure as hell didn't.

Also, i don't think it would have been a travesty of a result if the game had ended a draw. Arsenal were the better team and deserved it but it's not as if they smashed us the whole game.
You're saying bring on a player other than Garnacho? Perhaps just bring on Gernacho. Just because Arsenal are winning the league doesn't mean we have to roll over and have our belly tickled.

Yes Arsenal were the better team. We still handed them the win when we had the point in our hands.
 

gerdm07

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The mistake was to put Fred on for Antony, that change should have been for Eriksen, Antony was our main outlet and he did it well, it's not a coincidence that after he went off Arsenal were all over us, Garnacoh should have been on for Weghorst with 15-20 to go
This is how I saw it. Antony was doing good with providing an outlet and keeping the ball. Weghorst is too slow to be effective when we are under tons of pressure.
 

noodlehair

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Thought Ten Hag was fine today. Problem is when his first choice players aren't getting it done or aren't available, he has an extremely small pool of actually reliable players he can use to do anything about it. Basically Garnacho, Fred (sometimes) and Malacia. Everyone else is already on the pitch.

When your back up for Casemiro is Mctominay, and Casemiro is banned, you're kind of limited to what you can do if this causes a problem during the game.
 
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