Yeah, I'm sure United played a role in the choice of club. And City were available.
Agree completely with the second part.
The 'Manchester Is Blue' Thread
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
Agree completely with the second part.
It appears a logical idea in theory if the rival club, despite living in it's neighbour's shadow, already had it's own strong fan base. For eg: If someone buys Everton and suddenly makes them PL and CL contenders, nothing needs to be done about increasing the number of local fans -- because Everton are already well supported locally despite Liverpool being more successful. City had a core fan base, but it was never going to be big enough.
Everton or Newcastle would have been the ideal clubs if Mansour wanted unwavering support from the local community. I am sure City's overseas fan base will expand in coming years, but I don't see how they can wean away sections of the local fan base whose fathers and grandfathers supported United, bar the random few who may switch allegiances.
Dont disagree, and thats why i call it winning the lottery.
Arsenal was another club that interested him.
I'm not defending UEFA, I'm just saying you can't pick and choose when to have morals and when not. The people who own City do terrible things in their own country and yet it looks like that's ok with you, where as with UEFA you draw the line.
The reason I think City so often have half empty stadiums during CL games is that you don't have a big enough fanbase to be filling the ground every week, especially locally. And also, you've been in the Cl for 8 seasons now and you've not really done much at all, I think the fact you've been pretty shit in it makes City fans not want to go.
The boycott thing is a smokescreen. It's like the guy who loses on FIFA then claims he wasn't really trying anyway, and in fact he hates football games.
I like your username though by the way. One of the all time great own goals.
You seem to forget the financial mess City were in at the time with Thaksin in charge of the club.
Sorry but if you're going to try and claim that City fans en masse are taking the moral high ground you'll rightly get questions about City's lovely owners and why they bought the club.
Besides how does punishing the team for a UEFA fine from 6 years ago work? It doesn't end of.
The truth is something simpler. City will usually get a turnout, not always, for an EPL game where they're going to blow away the likes of Huddersfield but in a tournament where they're likely to get a beating a lot of fans don't fancy it.
Definition of part time.
We had also moved to a new stadium with excellent facilities already in place and land to develop close by.
Have a read of my post in the newbie thread and you'll get a better understanding of why i decided to join a different board than a City one.
Suppose i am a part timer now, as i no longer go to games because of the continued financial squeeze on the fans.
Im quite critical of the club where it deserves it. Whether that be, pricing, empty seats, or owner's involvement in Yemen, etc.
You'll like me once you know me
Last edited by a moderator:
They could have brought Everton, the fall out from Liverpool fans would have been epic.
It was a fantastic OG wasn't it. The way he flicked it up for himself was superb.
City were hilarious in that era.
Thank God he didn't buy Arsenal. Can you imagine their fans?
Ill watch but having no interest in CL football isn't as ridiculous as you make it sound, they just put together a silly excuse to combat the "Banter"
Im not alone in this, UEFA aren't rejigging the format because its too successful you know.
But your ST prices are still on the whole, on the cheaper side in the league. Though granted, the price increases started from a very low base so I can see why some fans might be up in arms as they aren't accustomed to paying premium prices, but compared to the rest of the league the v4m of a City seasoncard is still much, much better. My ST costs £836 full price excluding EFL, FA and UCL games, and also an additional £230 for parking for the season. If I was, heaven forbid, a blue; it'd be £500 for a similar seat with a similar view, and £190 for parking at the Etihad. And you guys have Pep blowing his load over the rest of the league, while we have Phil Jones trying his best not to run like a paraplegic who also has cerebral palsy. There really is no contest here and for City fans to complain about their prices is a bit well, rich.
City fans complaining it's too expensive, I have no issue with that. They're right, football ticket prices are obscene and I really hope at some point we reach a breaking point and something is done.
With TV rights and sponsorship deals ticket prices don't have to be so high anyway.
I just don't buy into the boycotting for moral reasons nonsense we hear so often. Or blaming the roads, or saying it clashes with Church on a Sunday. All excuses I've heard.
With TV rights and sponsorship deals ticket prices don't have to be so high anyway.
I just don't buy into the boycotting for moral reasons nonsense we hear so often. Or blaming the roads, or saying it clashes with Church on a Sunday. All excuses I've heard.
They have been offered a 3 game £53 bundle for all 3 home CL games.
The simple hard fact is, they know nothing of European football for a sustained period of time, so they don't get it. Yes, they want the shiny tin pot thing at the end, but the bit in the middle, they just don't get, or more importantly, they don't have any passion for. That will take time to achieve and by then, the footballing landscape may have changed once again.
They are fools to themselves in my mind are cutting their nose to spite their face,
Tbf you look at Donetzk and Hoffenheim as the opponents in that package and it looks really uninteresting, especially when they had Donetzk last season already. Those are Europa League group stage level names and no English side sells out their Europa League home legs in the group stage
feck me, I didn't know that
City's prices have traditionally been among, if not the lowest in the league, the fact that they now have world class players and a team (both on and off the pitch) means that they're paying higher ticket prices but it's still nowhere near ours (outside of their cringey tunnel club bollocks which no one in their right mind would pay for) let alone the exhorbitant prices you see at the London clubs who have achieved the square root of feck all (I'm looking at you, Spurs and Arsenal) they really shouldn't be complaining about prices.
Actually the prices are insane for many games with tickets £60 for the likes of United & Chelsea and even for whoever they are playing at the end of the season.feck me, I didn't know that
City's prices have traditionally been among, if not the lowest in the league, the fact that they now have world class players and a team (both on and off the pitch) means that they're paying higher ticket prices but it's still nowhere near ours (outside of their cringey tunnel club bollocks which no one in their right mind would pay for) let alone the exhorbitant prices you see at the London clubs who have achieved the square root of feck all (I'm looking at you, Spurs and Arsenal) they really shouldn't be complaining about prices.
Maybe I'm looking at it from a different angle - Taking into consideration that city have just amassed 100 points in the PL, then they were 'robbed'(their words) by an official in their quarter final of the CL last season, were they were going to go on win it, which is what they told us, they then told us all that they will come back and will win it next year and will also win the PL once again - so wouldn't you want to be there to say ' I saw all the games' ? And also have the ticket credits to make sure you got to those all important quarter and semi-final as as well as the final?
I'm not trying to stick the knife ion here on city's fanbase, but what is it that they actually want? They're not bothered by European competitions, yet they want to win everything, they're supposedly best fans in the land, but won't go and support their team in large numbers befitting of a team in such high adulation, they complain about the pricing yet are offered the best priced ticket package that I pretty much know for a fact - every other English team in the CL fanbase, would snatch their respective clubs hand off if they were offered that,whihc makes me wonder, what is it they actually want? Free entry to every game and everyone to bow down to them because they have won the PL and affirmed as the richest club on the planet and have had this massive complex built for them around their pre-paid ground? I just don't know what it is.
I'm sure City fans can correct me, but prior to the takeover their niche was to be the underdog. United were the ruthless capitalist pigs hovering up the trophies; City were the plucky underdogs watching real football and taking all its gut pinches with gallows humour.
Now that prop has been pulled away I'm not sure what their motif is anymore.
I can only speak from a Chelsea p.o.v
When we were bought we were happy humbled, and all that. We were a good cup team and had good players prior to that. There was a connection between the club and the fans that was built over time, We had the big bad Arsenal as our version of united while we were just failing. When we got into the UCL we cherish it the bridge is full for every game and even some Europa games we sell out the bridge but you will never see that much amount of empty seats for a UCL game at the bridge never.
City tried to do a Chelsea but it didn't work, We went from 0 to a 100 real quick with winning right after we were bought, you guys took years to win something. We were robbed in the UCL 09 ghost goal at anfield etc etc but we kept on coming back because this is the pinnacle of club football to be crowned Kings of Europe the ultimate bragging rights of any fan. Ask Madrid fans if you think they are tired of winning the UCL. Bayern fans are begging for a UCL victory. liverpool fans just want to win something, anything.
While at City you have Pep playing some of the greatest football in europe world class players and your stadium is empty. The fanbase just doesn't exist.
When we were bought we were happy humbled, and all that. We were a good cup team and had good players prior to that. There was a connection between the club and the fans that was built over time, We had the big bad Arsenal as our version of united while we were just failing. When we got into the UCL we cherish it the bridge is full for every game and even some Europa games we sell out the bridge but you will never see that much amount of empty seats for a UCL game at the bridge never.
City tried to do a Chelsea but it didn't work, We went from 0 to a 100 real quick with winning right after we were bought, you guys took years to win something. We were robbed in the UCL 09 ghost goal at anfield etc etc but we kept on coming back because this is the pinnacle of club football to be crowned Kings of Europe the ultimate bragging rights of any fan. Ask Madrid fans if you think they are tired of winning the UCL. Bayern fans are begging for a UCL victory. liverpool fans just want to win something, anything.
While at City you have Pep playing some of the greatest football in europe world class players and your stadium is empty. The fanbase just doesn't exist.
But aren't those the prices for the premium seats (i.e. tunnel club, hospitality, etc), rather than simply the standard STs? I was under the impression that the vast majority of the seats are still very competitively priced.
I hope it continues because they're never going to win it playing in front of half empty stadiums every home game.
I've got a ticket for the Manchester derby at City and the tickets were £60 for any ticket in the stadium.
I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification.
How much is it to get out?
Bit harsh, incorrect and ignorant to put Arsenal in with Spurs for winning nothing. Since the PL started in 1992 Arsenal have won 3 PL titles and the most FA Cups which is 8.feck me, I didn't know that
City's prices have traditionally been among, if not the lowest in the league, the fact that they now have world class players and a team (both on and off the pitch) means that they're paying higher ticket prices but it's still nowhere near ours (outside of their cringey tunnel club bollocks which no one in their right mind would pay for) let alone the exhorbitant prices you see at the London clubs who have achieved the square root of feck all (I'm looking at you, Spurs and Arsenal) they really shouldn't be complaining about prices.
Arsenal have 13 league titles which is the 3rd most in English football history and 13 FA cups which is the most in English football history.
They kind of have a reason to be allowed higher ticket prices than all but United and Liverpool.
One trophyless season.
I already said i was pro Yemen which should indicate enough to you, as to what i mean.
I agree with you. The fanbase isnt there. I think Mansour thought he could do what he's done and wave a magic wand and fans would appear en masse.
City's pricing policy has also had an impact. The seasoncard has gone up 50% in 6yrs. That priced my old man out for this season and 2 season ticket holders gone. He couldn't justify the CL games on top. I can't say how many others have been affected this way but if some fans are feeling squeezed the CL games and other cup games are the first you'll give up. That's first hand experience.
Yeah Pollocks was a belter. Its the only time I've laughed at the opposition scoring.
So how do United fans manage to fill their stadium week in week out and would never have as little fans as City did the other night.
For City fans if pricing is the issue and not because the fans are shite then how come the club 5 miles down the road manages to double City’s attendance?
Coz you guys have a history of winning everything in the top flight for the past 50 years - consistently. That has grown your fan base exponentially right across the world. City had a quick run in the early 70s and then in the last 7-8 years. Roughly, the City attendance has grown by 10k/15k in the last 10 years, so give it another similar timeframe to you guys and some continued success, it might reach the 70k mark. 10 years in footballing terms, is 'overnight'. Give it a week in footballing terms and lets take a look then
Yeah. We won 4 FA cups through the 70s and 80s. A period when we consistently had the highest average attendances.
I think the ideal club for them would have been Aston Villa.
Big city, biggest club in that city, with a genuinely rich history to build upon and closer to London than some of the other big English clubs.
We have had the highest average attendances in the league pretty much since records began. We went without winning the league for nearly 3 decades in this time. I would hardly call this consistently winning everything.
Your fan base hasn't actually increased that much since 2008. Your average attendances last year were in the low 50K's. This isn't factoring in that 1000's of these tickets were give aways but are put down as sold tickets. It was also reported that you were fudging your attendance figures more than any other PL club. Your true attendances (tickets sold) is between around 40 to 50K. The present time is the pinnacle for City as a club. You have Pep who is regarded as the GOAT by many. You have the most expensively assembled squad in the history of the league. You have just had your best ever season. Attendances are not increasing though. If you cannot fill your ground at the moment how are you going to get another 20K through the doors when you are offering something which is inferior to what you are offering now.
As a City ST holder for 30 years who also attends the CL games, I have to say that I am baffled by our low attendances for CL games. As others have said, most clubs would give their right arm to be in the CL and now we are in it, we can't get the stadium full which in turn dramatically affects atmosphere which was completely flat for the Lyon game I went to
There is of course a big difference between a sold out PL game which some ticket holders don't attend and a CL game where that might apply to some empty seats because primarily, the low CL attendances are down to not selling tickets in the first place
Anecdotally, in my experience of attending CL games at the Etihad, a significant number of the ST holders I see at PL games don't go to the CL games, especially in the early rounds - I'm always surrounded by new faces at CL games. Given there are plenty of non ST holders buying CL tickets and attendances are still poor, it shows just how few ST holders buy them
I don't buy the idea that the CL 'protest' is hugely responsible, because it's not brought up as a factor with the fans I speak to, but obviously I don't speak to a huge percentage of fans so I can't be sure
I have found getting to the ground considerably more difficult since we moved from Maine Road - I live in Altrincham and there has been the odd game in the years since we moved stadium where I've come home without getting to the ground after spending 2 or more hours trying to get to there and it's got to half time with me still being nowhere near the stadium. Midweek games in particular can be very tough to get through the traffic. I'm sure that affects some people
I also think the cost of a game is not just the ticket price - it's the food & parking (massively overpriced as it is at all clubs) and the time it takes out of the evening (and potentially work) which is potentially easily 6 hrs +, even for someone who lives in Greater Manchester. I seem to recall reading that the average income of the average city fan is quite low compared to united's, but I can't remember the specifics - does that ring bells with anyone ?
But I always come back to the same point - however much these factors contribute to at least some extent, I am staggered at the difficulty in selling more tickets. I assume the club have looked into the problem - I'd be fascinated to see the feedback they have received because without those details, we can only guess.
There is of course a big difference between a sold out PL game which some ticket holders don't attend and a CL game where that might apply to some empty seats because primarily, the low CL attendances are down to not selling tickets in the first place
Anecdotally, in my experience of attending CL games at the Etihad, a significant number of the ST holders I see at PL games don't go to the CL games, especially in the early rounds - I'm always surrounded by new faces at CL games. Given there are plenty of non ST holders buying CL tickets and attendances are still poor, it shows just how few ST holders buy them
I don't buy the idea that the CL 'protest' is hugely responsible, because it's not brought up as a factor with the fans I speak to, but obviously I don't speak to a huge percentage of fans so I can't be sure
I have found getting to the ground considerably more difficult since we moved from Maine Road - I live in Altrincham and there has been the odd game in the years since we moved stadium where I've come home without getting to the ground after spending 2 or more hours trying to get to there and it's got to half time with me still being nowhere near the stadium. Midweek games in particular can be very tough to get through the traffic. I'm sure that affects some people
I also think the cost of a game is not just the ticket price - it's the food & parking (massively overpriced as it is at all clubs) and the time it takes out of the evening (and potentially work) which is potentially easily 6 hrs +, even for someone who lives in Greater Manchester. I seem to recall reading that the average income of the average city fan is quite low compared to united's, but I can't remember the specifics - does that ring bells with anyone ?
But I always come back to the same point - however much these factors contribute to at least some extent, I am staggered at the difficulty in selling more tickets. I assume the club have looked into the problem - I'd be fascinated to see the feedback they have received because without those details, we can only guess.
You make some very valid points in the second paragraph above, but I don't fully agree with your points in the first paragraph.
People pick and choose when to have morals all the time. It is of course hypocritical. But we mostly judge our 'enemies' differently to 'our own'. For example fouls we see differently when our team have committed them to when they are committed against us
Anybody that does take issue with UEFA isn't, IMO, doing it so much from a moral standpoint but more from a 'siege mentality' type approach - UEFA treat us unfairly and we don't like them as a result.
BTW I don't agree with that approach, but I get it. I may dislike the fact FFP was more about protecting the already rich clubs and preventing city from joining the elite rather than protection of the poorer clubs and I find the stance they took on racism and the resultant breaking of the ban on home fans incredibly unfair, but I don't let it fester because I want to win the CL and booing/staying away is counter productive. I also think it must leave our players bemused and confused which is again, counter productive.
Even if you ignore the accusations or corruption or UEFA's "hidden agenda" against City, our fans have a complicated relationship with the Champions' League, to the point where I think most of us would consider it third or even fourth priority at the start of the season.
Let me explain. When you're not in the competition and you're looking up at the teams who are, you feel envious. You want the big European nights under the floodlights in April and May, you want your own Liverpool in Istanbul, your own United in Barcelona. It's a tournament drenched in legend and prestige, a place where the world's best players get together to play dream team football and win the ultimate prize. You want nothing more than to get there and join in with the big boys. When we played Napoli back in 2011 and the anthem rang around the stadium you could really feel everyone's blood running round their bodies just that little bit quicker.
But then you start getting used to it as a fanbase while the club doesn't quite adjust. There's no beer on sale inside the ground, your players are still too naive and fall onto the referee's bad side, and you're not sat around your Saturday 3pm regulars. As matchday experiences go, Champions' League ones are the worst. On the pitch, you're trying to make your way in the tournament and get a foothold to climb into Europe's elite, but you've been drawn against Bayern Munich in the group stages again, which means you'll likely be facing Barcelona in the first knock-out round. Great, that's what this tournament is all about, surely? Well, yes, but facing Barcelona in the knockout round means your seat that's worth £35 for a game against West Ham is suddenly £50+ on a winter weeknight.
You have occasional good nights. You beat Bayern Munich 3-2 with a big last minute goal, you beat PSG to reach the semi-finals, you finally beat Barcelona in a big game. But it's not enough to combat the disinterest and apathy, the feeling of the corporate elite invading your space that comes with larger advertising hoardings and more expensive tickets. And what chance do we have of winning it anyway? So you stop paying for three group games and any subsequent knockout ties, and you watch it at home on TV instead. Why rush home from work to watch a game against Lyon when you can go at a leisurely pace and sit on your couch instead?
If even 5,000-10,000 City fans feel this way, that affects attendances significantly. We have a core, local support of around 45,000-50,000. The rest come and go. As some posters have recognised in this thread, City aren't a team you want to travel from far and wide to come and watch. Not yet. It'll come with time and continued success, but it won't happen overnight. We can't make up the numbers with day trippers and tourists yet. We don't have a mass global fanbase to draw from and two decades worth of trophies to back it up. So every now and again, especially in cup games, our attendance will drop under 40,000 if even 5-10% of the regulars either can't part with the cash, can't be arsed, or were priced out years ago with the steady increases.
I'm not sure why attendances are so important to fans of rival teams when the reasons behind them are pretty boring and self-explanatory?
Let me explain. When you're not in the competition and you're looking up at the teams who are, you feel envious. You want the big European nights under the floodlights in April and May, you want your own Liverpool in Istanbul, your own United in Barcelona. It's a tournament drenched in legend and prestige, a place where the world's best players get together to play dream team football and win the ultimate prize. You want nothing more than to get there and join in with the big boys. When we played Napoli back in 2011 and the anthem rang around the stadium you could really feel everyone's blood running round their bodies just that little bit quicker.
But then you start getting used to it as a fanbase while the club doesn't quite adjust. There's no beer on sale inside the ground, your players are still too naive and fall onto the referee's bad side, and you're not sat around your Saturday 3pm regulars. As matchday experiences go, Champions' League ones are the worst. On the pitch, you're trying to make your way in the tournament and get a foothold to climb into Europe's elite, but you've been drawn against Bayern Munich in the group stages again, which means you'll likely be facing Barcelona in the first knock-out round. Great, that's what this tournament is all about, surely? Well, yes, but facing Barcelona in the knockout round means your seat that's worth £35 for a game against West Ham is suddenly £50+ on a winter weeknight.
You have occasional good nights. You beat Bayern Munich 3-2 with a big last minute goal, you beat PSG to reach the semi-finals, you finally beat Barcelona in a big game. But it's not enough to combat the disinterest and apathy, the feeling of the corporate elite invading your space that comes with larger advertising hoardings and more expensive tickets. And what chance do we have of winning it anyway? So you stop paying for three group games and any subsequent knockout ties, and you watch it at home on TV instead. Why rush home from work to watch a game against Lyon when you can go at a leisurely pace and sit on your couch instead?
If even 5,000-10,000 City fans feel this way, that affects attendances significantly. We have a core, local support of around 45,000-50,000. The rest come and go. As some posters have recognised in this thread, City aren't a team you want to travel from far and wide to come and watch. Not yet. It'll come with time and continued success, but it won't happen overnight. We can't make up the numbers with day trippers and tourists yet. We don't have a mass global fanbase to draw from and two decades worth of trophies to back it up. So every now and again, especially in cup games, our attendance will drop under 40,000 if even 5-10% of the regulars either can't part with the cash, can't be arsed, or were priced out years ago with the steady increases.
I'm not sure why attendances are so important to fans of rival teams when the reasons behind them are pretty boring and self-explanatory?
God, I almost felt sorry for you...for a moment
This is pretty accurate from my perspective. I now live in London and don't go to more than a dozen games each season. I went to the Napoli game and have been to a good few CL games since. Its strange to explain but I find the CL games fairly underwhelming. Too many tourists, no beer in the ground, fussy referees...it just doesn't feel like a proper game. I would rather go to a PL game or one of the domestic cups.
I see KDB is back way ahead of schedule...
Perfectly legit. Nothing suspicious at all
Perfectly legit. Nothing suspicious at all
Two to three months was the original prognosis. He's not likely to be playing for several weeks. This correlates pretty closely to the expected recovery time. Why the paranoia?