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RedFish

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The why is in not having a choice because the stand up is so good it exposes the weaknesses in his own game and the shoot follow-ups are much, much harder to come by because these guys have exit points a mile away from where they struck from, which is not the same as what he encounters currently - he scrambles and trades and then he's grappling and the opponent falls to pieces and is subsequently terrified for the rest of the bout, understable as that is from their perspective.

Before his loss, Ferguson was 'the one' custom-built to match Khabib and not be intimidated whilst providing volume and aggression by the bucketload.

I don't think a new level is set for Khabib - he's at a level where everything is scrutinised because there's discussion of greatest of all-time etc. at which point these guys get broken down to the minutiae. Thing is, though, strikers of the level I'm talking about are so few and far between that hoping one emerges in Khabib's division whilst he's still at his peak is like waiting on a unicorn - Khabib can only beat what's in front of him, but you can't sweep his flaws under the carpet. He's vulnerable to certain things and it would have been great to see a truly masterful standup exponent go at it with him just see how it would turn out for the both of them.
If there had been a Wonderboy or Edwards , a point fighter that can inflict enough damage to make you hesitant to come in the way Khabib does then maybe that would have been a problem for him. As LW that fighter didn't exist. Justin hits as hard as anyone and look what happened.

Barboza and his KO ability with his kicks was beaten to a oulp income of the most savage beatings I've ever witnessed.
 

Man of Leisure

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In GSP's case, it would be because he was a complete fighter. Probably one of the few who were masterful at every aspect of MMA.
Very valid point. He was one of the first good at multiple disciplines. I remember thinking wrestling was his weakness early on in his career during the Hughes fights, and eventually he was training with the Canadian wrestling team later in his career. Tremendous athlete.
 

Tel074

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I didn’t want to be a bad sport which is why I deleted it.

But of course I’ll be back in this thread when McTap next fights to gloat in his thrashing.
If you are above the age of 11 then you should really be embarrassed calling McGregor McTap.
If you don't like the man then that is fine but seriously if the best insult you have is that then you are either 11 or you got dropped on your head as a child .
McGregor brought the sport to the masses he will go down as a UFC legend and rightly so .
 

sammsky1

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If you are above the age of 11 then you should really be embarrassed calling McGregor McTap.
If you don't like the man then that is fine but seriously if the best insult you have is that then you are either 11 or you got dropped on your head as a child .
McGregor brought the sport to the masses he will go down as a UFC legend and rightly so .
For you perhaps. Not for me.
I’d love to be 11 again
 

sammsky1

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If you re-watch the fight, you'll notice that Gaethje was constantly lowering himself and being protective of Khabib's takedowns. I don't think he was tired or gassed per se, he was just so weary of getting taken down. Think that seriously wore on him.
Correct. You'd have to be dumb not to be wary of Khabib entering take down distance. Ultimately no one has found a way, to stop him getting a takedown. It's as simple as that.
Here’s what the posters on Sherdog say. All pretty convinced he was totally gassed.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/justin-was-completely-gassed-after-round-one.4142304/
 

Man of Leisure

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Here’s what the posters on Sherdog say. All pretty convinced he was totally gassed.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/justin-was-completely-gassed-after-round-one.4142304/
Sherdog :lol: Blast from the past. Haven't been on there in like over 10 years. The atmosphere on here post-fight was very sherdog-like.

I do think it was more mental exertion than physical like some on there were saying. The pressure Khabib was applying was unreal. Crazy part is, that first minute went by without much happening, almost zero action.
 

Man of Leisure

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I do think part of the blueprint for beating Khabib is almost knowing and being okay with getting taken down at some point. But being able to scramble and get back on their feet. Easier said than done.

Gaethje seemed too deferential at the end of the fight. Someone like that will never beat Khabib. Not saying he could beat him, but someone with Tony's cavalier attitude would almost be a prerequisite imo.
 
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Charlie Foley

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McG is just some bloke he had fun with and choked. A blur is the hundreds of men whom he has defeated.

There is nothing McG can now say or do to challenge Khabibs GOAT status and so nothing he can say they will even get on his radar anymore. It’s done.
The "Khabib doesn't give a shit about Conor and never did" narrative is nonsense. If that was the case, he wouldn't have hopped the cage after he'd 'killed' Conor and all his boys wouldn't have rushed the cage.

I don't think Conor "rattled" Khabib because I don't think Khabib gets rattled in the typical sense, at least not the way "internet banter" uses that term, but he obviously mattered enough to him to get him pissed off.
 

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I do think part of the blueprint for beating Khabib is almost knowing and being okay with getting taken down at some point. But being able to scramble and get back on their feet. Easier said than done.

Gaethje seemed too deferential at the end of the fight. Someone like that will never beat Khabib. Not saying he could beat him, but someone with Tony's cavalier attitude would almost be a prerequisite imo.
Look what happened to Tony when he fought Gaethje.


When push comes to shove, there has been no fighter with the skillset to defeat Khabib. If Khabjib couldnt absorb a shot as well as he evidently can then we also wouldn't be having this discussion. Time to admit defeat, he has been simply superior.
 

Charlie Foley

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Look what happened to Tony when he fought Gaethje.


When push comes to shove, there has been no fighter with the skillset to defeat Khabib. If Khabjib couldnt absorb a shot as well as he evidently can then we also wouldn't be having this discussion. Time to admit defeat, he has been simply superior.
MMA math
 

Man of Leisure

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Look what happened to Tony when he fought Gaethje.


When push comes to shove, there has been no fighter with the skillset to defeat Khabib. If Khabjib couldnt absorb a shot as well as he evidently can then we also wouldn't be having this discussion. Time to admit defeat, he has been simply superior.
Well, I've got no dog in this fight so not sure what the bolded means. Khabib is amazing and the class of the division by far. I was just stating that if someone were to beat him, they can't be as worried about being taken down as Gaethje clearly was. That was a self-fulfilling prophecy right there.
 

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having seen gsp, silva, and jones fight in their prime, to me khabib is the goat. Absolutely unbeatable. I know he hasnt got the flair of other fighters, but i know he makes anyone in front of him at the cage feel like they're fighting a fecking bear. It's a shame he didn't fight ferguson while he was at the top because i know khabib would have beat him just like anyone else. I just can't see this "unorthodox style is what it takes to beat khabib" argument.

I really hope the eagle returns for a couple more fights. Im sure he will do a Mayweather and leave undefeated
 

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having seen gsp, silva, and jones fight in their prime, to me khabib is the goat. Absolutely unbeatable. I know he hasnt got the flair of other fighters, but i know he makes anyone in front of him at the cage feel like they're fighting a fecking bear. It's a shame he didn't fight ferguson while he was at the top because i know khabib would have beat him just like anyone else. I just can't see this "unorthodox style is what it takes to beat khabib" argument.

I really hope the eagle returns for a couple more fights. Im sure he will do a Mayweather and leave undefeated
His flair is underrated. Just tonight there was a bit where he pointed at his knee then at Gaethje and he immediately fecking nailed him with a jumping knee.
 

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Also, when you watch the poiriers, the conors, the Gaethjes et al fight each other, they seem absolute monsters, top level athletes with the ability to defeat any other person in the cage. And they are

Who would have guessed there is a level above them? Against Khabib, they smash into a fecking wall
 

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Phenomenon. Greatest of all time for me. As the poster above said its the fact that he makes great fighters look like they don't even belong in there with him. More than that, he even seems to make his opponents believe themselves that they don't belong there. That separates him from other greats.

On the one hand sad to see him retire young, but on the other I like to see legends go out on top of the game. Respect.
 

Man of Leisure

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having seen gsp, silva, and jones fight in their prime, to me khabib is the goat. Absolutely unbeatable. I know he hasnt got the flair of other fighters, but i know he makes anyone in front of him at the cage feel like they're fighting a fecking bear. It's a shame he didn't fight ferguson while he was at the top because i know khabib would have beat him just like anyone else. I just can't see this "unorthodox style is what it takes to beat khabib" argument.

I really hope the eagle returns for a couple more fights. Im sure he will do a Mayweather and leave undefeated
:lol: So true. Slightly off-topic, but if you can create the perfect fighter, I'm convinced they'd have a long-limbed body shape with skills. Like Anderson Silva, Jon Jones and Israel Adesanya. Not saying Izzy is on that level, mind you.
 

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If there had been a Wonderboy or Edwards , a point fighter that can inflict enough damage to make you hesitant to come in the way Khabib does then maybe that would have been a problem for him. As LW that fighter didn't exist. Justin hits as hard as anyone and look what happened.

Barboza and his KO ability with his kicks was beaten to a oulp income of the most savage beatings I've ever witnessed.
Yeah, as you know, I'm going to give these greatest of all-time discussed candidates an objective and critical run. I've said the same thing all the way through the thread about Khabib's faults/flaws, but at the same time, he is anomalous - he can fight the way he does because what he backs it up with is surefire defeat if he gets his hands on you. What is textbook to stop his stand up literally turns into hesitancy and reluctance as fighters evaluate all of their output and the consequence for throwing what are obvious, and would-be easy counters if the other guy didn't carry the threat of a superhuman maul machine.

It's quite immaterial to have sub-par stand up when it ultimately leads to what he wants, which is to get into proximity to grapple and end the fight. He closes distance in a way that nobody else is allowed to because generally, it would be suicidal to walk into, and through, established range like he does - that completely messed with Barboza's head, for example; you're supposed to go the other direction when I kick you, sort of thing, instead, Barboza started evaluating whether using his kicks was a good idea or not because of the potential consequences for doing so. Mentally, it was over.

I think the level of mental pressure he exudes and overwhelms with is bigger than his physical threat. It is clear from his fights that it doesn't take long for the other guy to conform to Khabib's style and abandon a lot of what got them the title shot in the first place. The fact he makes high level opponents not want to throw anything is akin to maybe only peak Silva, albeit for a completely different reason. It's really fascinating to watch that process of mental deconstruction.

You need someone with great stand (footwork inclusive) up as well as mental fortitude to withstand what Khabib brings to the octagon. Either that, or someone like Ferguson, who, whilst not in the tier of strikers I'm talking about, had the confidence and assuredness in he what he does to go in their and not become yet another overwhelmed opponent.

In terms of presence and aura, Khabib's the most intimidating champion I've seen - that he can make opponents so self-conscious speaks volumes for him, but in terms of names and what they've done in the sport or their ability to be the top dog, he's not got a resume like the other true contenders, imo.

Jones is still comfortably #1 for me; then the rest of the pack.
 

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@Berbaclass aye Conor did well and actually looked very good as an under pressure fighter but he was humbled. Humbled big time. Khabib literally had him saying its only business mid fight. I don't think I can find anything more embarrassing after the way Conor got on. If they fight again, Khabib is selling that fight not Conor.
Agree he did well considering. The guy lost his focus and discipline and turned into a complete C@nt. He used to engaged is psychological warfare before fights but the racist xenophobic personal bile he was spewing was shameful. Nothing clever about it at all and he got deservedly humbled, and this is coming from a fan of Conor. Live by the sword, die by the sword, and ultimately the money went to his head.

My only regret is that we did not see the best of Mcgregor. I think if he was in the zone like he was post Alvarez we may have seen something special.

Conor is a great fighter and was a phenomenom but he is not an all time great. Mayweather made way more money but never went on coke and booze binges and descended into scumminess. It is what it is though. Ultimately its the fans that have missed out a bit.
 

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There are only two fights I'd really find interesting were Khabib to renege on his retirement and both of them would be more matters of curiosity:
1) GSP - two all time greats going at it but with the caveat that GSP hasn't been an active fighter for a long time while Khabib is in his prime and therefore the result would mean nothing.
2) Ferguson - based on his unorthodoxy and that he's probably the only fighter Khabib has faced that's comfortable and capable of dishing out lots of damage from his back with his elbows. Probably just gets pinned against the cage just like everybody else though.

No interest in a McGregor fight and don't really understand the attraction of it. Also don't understand why so many are keen for him to be next in line for the vacant Lightweight title when he wants to face Poirier at 170 and actually asked Dana for a Diego Sanchez fight.
No point in any of these. GSP is meaningless. If he wants something real go after Usman.

Ferguson a waste of time. Would crush him quickly. Devastating loss to Gaethje so why?

Conor also a waste of time. They guy lost it and really is damaged goods now. He used to be a big net benefit for the UFC but he created a shit show and will damage the UFC brand. Too much money and arseholeness and unprofessionalism. Shame really because he is Khabib's only real challenge at Lightweight.
 

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He was out of his depth like every other fighter against Khabib . Like I said before Khabib was never under any pressure even for a second in the McGregor fight
Agree. Conor did however negate and neutralise him for periods. Certainly had the skill level to cause Khabib big problems. But really he looked shook when entering the ring, which was a first. Mental doubt coming from lack of true preparation. I truly believe that he knew he wasnt ready for Khabib. And he wasn't.
 

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I haven’t watched MMA seriously since about 2013, just pick out fights as and when they interest me. But I’m a little intrigued as to why he would be considered as the best ever.

Best currently P4P? Maybe, although Jones record is better, I’ll accept the PED question marks. Looking at who he’s beat, it’s not his fault who he has to compete against, that list doesn’t scream GOAT to me. Most of the fighters on the list are all great match ups for him stylistically too.

Never testing himself at welterweight is another mark against him. He clearly struggles to 155, so there’s no reason he couldn’t go up to 170. Of course it’s his choice, and he’s fully entitled to stay at 155, but it weakness his GOAT credentials.
 

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I haven’t watched MMA seriously since about 2013, just pick out fights as and when they interest me. But I’m a little intrigued as to why he would be considered as the best ever.

Best currently P4P? Maybe, although Jones record is better, I’ll accept the PED question marks. Looking at who he’s beat, it’s not his fault who he has to compete against, that list doesn’t scream GOAT to me. Most of the fighters on the list are all great match ups for him stylistically too.

Never testing himself at welterweight is another mark against him. He clearly struggles to 155, so there’s no reason he couldn’t go up to 170. Of course it’s his choice, and he’s fully entitled to stay at 155, but it weakness his GOAT credentials.
There's so many different ways to look at the GOAT talk, I guess that's what makes it so interesting to discuss. I think even the biggest Khabib fans would admit his resume is not necessarily the best ever in terms of opponents (but still very strong). However it's his dominance and way that he makes very good fighters look silly in there with him. Won basically every round, never in trouble, never even cut in a fight, 29-0 (13-0 in UFC). If a gun was put to your head and you were forced to pick someone to win a fight and save your life, Khabib would be a damn good first choice. But it's totally understandable to rate him as low as 8th or 9th best all time too. Just depends on how you look at it.

Edit: Thinking a bit more about it 8th is hard to justify but as low as 6 is feasible.
 

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Gutted to see Khabib retire.

I wonder why he felt compelled to tell his mom he won’t do it without his father. Maybe it just wasn’t the same for him without his father in his corner.

Given fighting is obviously in his blood, I would have thought him continuing would have only strengthened his (and by extension his fathers) legacy.

Not upto me to question his motive I guess but the UFC won’t be quite the same without him.
 

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Reading through this morning having a laugh some of the posts on Khabib are some weird shit. Like some odd fan fiction of what they dream someone is like.

You’ll be very disappointed if you are waiting for him to enter the ring. He is not going to be turned by money. He does not blow his money. He really doesn’t need money to motivate him. He would rather live on the streets than break a promise with his mother. If you think he will, then you don’t know the man.
Rather live on the streets :lol: :lol: This is a weird view.

your western rational view of the world driven by money and fame doesn't exist or have any relevance in Khabib's world.
This is your blindspot on this matter.
This is just a really weird statement. Its how people speak like they know the guy and have just got it in their head he can do no wrong and is an angel. In fact there was a post saying "there's YouTube videos of him..." and how humble, modest etc he is. As if a YouTube video is in no way edited in his favour. There's also YouTube videos of him being a cnut to homeless people and hanging around with terrorists (and he takes money off them Mr Frugal himself) this narrative that goes on is really odd, if you like him fair enough but he's hardly the nicest guy in the world.

This is in danger of turning into a poundland version of the Messi vs Ronaldo thread. :lol:
Yeah the McGregor bit is always weird and then the same comments appear from people who don't like him "McGregor is desperate to stay relevant" surely completely aware by commenting on him them same people are making him relevant still? Mayweather became a billionaire targeting them people.

As for the fights went the way I thought they would. Hopefully Whittaker is better prepared for Adesanya and there is something annoying about a fighter retiring champion. I hope they'd set up a tournament so we get 3 top level fights but I imagine it does go to the winner of Connor vs Poirier now.
 

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Reading through this morning having a laugh some of the posts on Khabib are some weird shit. Like some odd fan fiction of what they dream someone is like.



Rather live on the streets :lol: :lol: This is a weird view.



This is just a really weird statement. Its how people speak like they know the guy and have just got it in their head he can do no wrong and is an angel. In fact there was a post saying "there's YouTube videos of him..." and how humble, modest etc he is. As if a YouTube video is in no way edited in his favour. There's also YouTube videos of him being a cnut to homeless people and hanging around with terrorists (and he takes money off them Mr Frugal himself) this narrative that goes on is really odd, if you like him fair enough but he's hardly the nicest guy in the world.



Yeah the McGregor bit is always weird and then the same comments appear from people who don't like him "McGregor is desperate to stay relevant" surely completely aware by commenting on him them same people are making him relevant still? Mayweather became a billionaire targeting them people.

As for the fights went the way I thought they would. Hopefully Whittaker is better prepared for Adesanya and there is something annoying about a fighter retiring champion. I hope they'd set up a tournament so we get 3 top level fights but I imagine it does go to the winner of Connor vs Poirier now.
It'd be great if they would organize some kind of 8 man tournament over a year to crown a new champ, but unfortunately UFC seems pretty reluctant to anything experimental these days. It will be Conor - Poirier for the strap and Tony fighting the winner I'd guess.

Conor - Dustin
Tony - Hooker
Justin - Oliveira
Ferreira - Dariush? (lots of fighters you could throw in this last one)
 

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I just came here to say – Khabib: GOAT.

Also, disappointed with the Whittaker-Cannonier result. Whittaker is rebuilding after his defeat against Israel, but him being number one contender again is in no way, shape or form exciting for that division.
 

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And Solskjær has won it!
The good rival for Khabib would be Israel Adesanya. If he wins against him, there will be an option to fight Francis Ngannou (although it would mean getting some 40+ kgs of weight - perhaps not possible).
So why are you all against Khabib shifting to a heavier category?
Yeah Khabib moving up 4 divisions to fight Ngannou would be a really interesting fight for 10 seconds, though not as interesting as watching Mayweathers take down defence for 20 seconds vs Khabib in an MMA fight.
 

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It'd be great if they would organize some kind of 8 man tournament over a year to crown a new champ, but unfortunately UFC seems pretty reluctant to anything experimental these days. It will be Conor - Poirier for the strap and Tony fighting the winner I'd guess.
Yeah I thought that, even 4 people and get 3 good fights.

I read something a while ago, and it makes sense, they don't like tournaments because obviously people suffer damage and can be huge delays on fights.

For example is Conor beats Poirier and then Ferguson beats Gaejthe in a war then they have Conor hanging around ready to fight but Ferguson could he inactive for a long time holding up the whole division. Still though would love to see something different
 

Lay

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Yeah Khabib moving up 4 divisions to fight Ngannou would be a really interesting fight for 10 seconds, though not as interesting as watching Mayweathers take down defence for 20 seconds vs Khabib in an MMA fight.
Before that he should fight John Cena. Would like to see him against an opponent he can’t see
 

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And Solskjær has won it!
Before that he should fight John Cena. Would like to see him against an opponent he can’t see
Khabib could see him, Khabib sees all.

He could also fight Lesnar in a cross promotion mixed MMA/WWE rules fight. Steel chairs are allowed but no climbing to the top of the ropes in case Khabib jumps into the crowd again. All Khabib would have to do is gain 100lbs, piece of piss for him I’m sure.
 

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That was an amazing performance by Khabib. Gaethje did look like he was gassing earlier... but I think that was maybe the emotional energy and the intense pressure Khabib was putting on him. He was really forcing a relentless pace and had Justin backing up and circling almost the entire fight whilst they were standing. It was very different to when Khabib fought Conor and he seemed a bit more worried about the threat from Conor’s striking and fought a more patient fight.

It would have been amazing to see Khabib go for number 30 against GSP. I can understand not being interested in Conor or Dustin again as it’s hard to imagine those fights going any different and he has nothing to gain from it in terms of his legacy.
 

Tel074

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Agree. Conor did however negate and neutralise him for periods. Certainly had the skill level to cause Khabib big problems. But really he looked shook when entering the ring, which was a first. Mental doubt coming from lack of true preparation. I truly believe that he knew he wasnt ready for Khabib. And he wasn't.
Yeah I think most fighter's deep down know they have a punchers chance against Khabib and when that isn't working they know what's coming .
Gaethje v McGregor would be a war
 

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Phenomenon. Greatest of all time for me. As the poster above said its the fact that he makes great fighters look like they don't even belong in there with him. More than that, he even seems to make his opponents believe themselves that they don't belong there. That separates him from other greats.

On the one hand sad to see him retire young, but on the other I like to see legends go out on top of the game. Respect.
You can visibly see when the opponent's realise this during the fight and break.
 

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The why is in not having a choice because the stand up is so good it exposes the weaknesses in his own game and the shoot follow-ups are much, much harder to come by because these guys have exit points a mile away from where they struck from, which is not the same as what he encounters currently - he scrambles and trades and then he's grappling and the opponent falls to pieces and is subsequently terrified for the rest of the bout, understable as that is from their perspective.

Before his loss, Ferguson was 'the one' custom-built to match Khabib and not be intimidated whilst providing volume and aggression by the bucketload.

I don't think a new level is set for Khabib - he's at a level where everything is scrutinised because there's discussion of greatest of all-time etc. at which point these guys get broken down to the minutiae. Thing is, though, strikers of the level I'm talking about are so few and far between that hoping one emerges in Khabib's division whilst he's still at his peak is like waiting on a unicorn - Khabib can only beat what's in front of him, but you can't sweep his flaws under the carpet. He's vulnerable to certain things and it would have been great to see a truly masterful standup exponent go at it with him just see how it would turn out for the both of them.
Well I meant that currently there isn't anyone currently that good, therefore there isn't a chink in his armour. Of course his weakness is his stand up but he's more than proficient on his feet to negate another fighter superior stand up as we've seen in his past few fights when the level went up dramatically.

Before Tony's loss to Gaethje where Gaethje was forcing pressure on Ferguson. Is it not reasonable to come to conclusion that after last night's showing, Tony would have maybe a submission in him against Khabib and that's it. To be honest, I'm not sure Tony could even do it. BJJ black belts fought Khabib before and none did anything except for Dustin Poirier.

Khabib for me, will go down as a fighter that's never been taken to deep waters in MMA and that's really something. It would have been great to see him at 170 though but Usman becoming the champ when he did made it pointless as he said he'd never fight him.
 

Paxi

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In GSP's case, it would be because he was a complete fighter. Probably one of the few who were masterful at every aspect of MMA.
I also thought, winning the middleweight title against Bisping in the manner and the circumstances was awesome.

I'd say.

Jon Jones
GSP
Khabib
Nunes
Mighty Mouse

Hard to really put them into order but I'd be inclined to say that Jonny Bones is #1.