The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Fracture90]

Yes the primary cause of the goal was the poor decision by Sanchez by putting Toby in a situation that he was ill suited to handle. There were two better passes to be made and a 3rd option of hoofing the ball, but Sanchez didnot take those options. Everything else flows from that poor decision.

A similar scenario is the penalty we conceded against Everton. Yes it was Smalling that committed the foul and could have done better staying on his feet, but primary fault lies with Pogba who was lackadaisical and lost the ball, putting Smalling in the situation he was ill suited to deal with.
That would be Lukaku being a poor finisher or just unlucky.
he would have improved us cos he is better than all our current CBs or do you think any of our CBs are better than him

No - like I said even in that PSV goal sequence, his recovery from his error and ability to still put in a late tackle without committing the foul shows his defensive quality. Also Simeone's defense is nothing like ours - it is simply more physically aggressive and dominant (as would be expected from a Simeone+Godin defence). Coming from the Ajax school Alderweireld is too soft for such a scheme.

As to the cost argument, the first factor would be the market price for alternatives i.e. can we get someone better at that price or of similar. If not, then 70m for Toby is what the current dictates. Beyond that is to see if we can get a lower fee. If Tobywill be available for free or 25m next summer and Spurs were truly interested in accepting Mata as part of the deal, then with good negotiating skill, Ed should have been able to secure him for closer to a 40m valuation.

So why we may not have gotten Toby, that we couldnt get anyone better than our current group of CBs (given how bad they are) is the bigger problem. I simply cannot understand how a club like us cannot sign a CB that is beeter than Smalling, Lindelof, Bailly, Rojo and Jones.

That's it dude, you must be a WUM 100%, that Toby wasn't at fault bs really tells it all.

I mean the lengths you would go in order to fuel your narrative and push you're agenda are straight-up ridiculous.

How can you even believe in that stuff you're spewing out is beyond me.

 

[VP89]

Yes, and that's kind of my point (badly made perhaps). Those three players cost this club £180m and probably another £150m in contracts. IMO Mourinho hasn't figured out the best way to use any of those players. You would hope for that kind of financial commitment a manager would be 100% certain about how we intended to use them - how they fit into his system. It's a serious lack of due diligence on our part.

Pep has signed exactly the right players for his vision. They are all out there contributing and getting better.

I think 2 of those players would have started if fit. And I do agree with your points but of late he has found some form of continuity in his defensive selection and in the front 3. If the caf were to post a first XI by their choice it would probably be identical barring Matic.

 

[Patrick08]

An average player that City targeted and if we paid that much for an average player then it disprove the idea that the manager isn't backed.

If we stayed second, i could agree with Jose's claims, but Jose is now using the dry summer market as an excuse for what he's getting out of the team, and the guy whose at the centre of why we are so poor was the same guy that had him Fired from the last job ie Matic. Never seen a damn poor def mid than him in Jose's team than him. He is so 2014, half of our problems would be solved if we had a real good partner to paul pogba who'd actually own the midfield like a boss. But that's only half of it. He isn't convincing any of the top players in the market to join him and his project by the selection of his tactics and the fact that he just doesn't get best out of top talents by his methods.

We backed him enough with pogba and lukaku purchases, Sanchez, Matic, even fred as well, this was the summer if he chose the right target like playmakers to improve the middle and add the creativity needed to open up defenses things could have finally put in place,but as always, playing creative dominating way is just not his way and we saw a poor window unfold before our eyes where superb talents chose somewhere again and Chelsea benefitted from that massively i belive.

Tactially jose has absolutely lost it with his own stubbornness and weather or not we dint back him enough in supposedly, perisic, willian and cb deals out of which Cb is a debatable subject, the fact it it wasn't going to change the dross the midfield has served this season and the lack of creativity and control team shows on the pitch week in week out, defenders are only the last line of defense which should be okay hadn't they needed to absorb pressure for 80% of the time with his poor tactics and men in front of them.

He has lost his winning attitude and mojo with unflexibility he is showing tactically and i have little faith he is going to change and take the club in right direction. I just don't understand what were the conversation between him and Woodward in terms of transfer policy and vision before he was offered a new contract just after which things went downhill.

 

[Bilbo]

The most obvious reason we aren't challenging City is because we simply lack the funds to compete with them in the transfer market.

Every situation is judged on individual merit, the new manager will be no exception.

Every other English club lack the funds to compete with City in the market right now - only we can come close.

Even if we take them out of the equation we are falling behind the competition.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

You said that the signing was an average player, you basically admitted that the list was the issue. All debate stops there, the manager got the player that he asked for and the club spent what was needed to land them, you are basically making the point that the club should tell Mourinho to do one and comeback with more serious lists.

The list was reported to have 5 midfielders (Mourinho wanted 2 of them): Jorginho, Kovacic, Milinković-Savić, Weigl and Fred, with Fred being the last on the list. He could not secure the two preferred targets and had to settle for only one and the last option at that, but still decide to overpay for him. That we ended up with only the average player is on him or should Mourinho have listed only the best players? cos then he is likely to be accused of wanting the unattainable.

Also you don't know how much Inter or Leicester asked, you don't even know if Perisic and Maguire pushed for a move.

It was widely reported that inter wanted £49m for Perisic or martial+cash and Leicester was reportedly holding out for £80m for Maguire.

Players rarely push for moves, so dont see the relevance of it.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Controversial opinon:

Proper fans blame Woodward and The Glazers

Plastic fans blame Mourinho

Very simple scenario.

I still don't know how this one got promoted. Nonsensical posting

 

[JPRouve]

Here's the thing though Rouve, this DOF won't be appointed. The Caf hasn't cottoned on yet

Theyve fallen hook, line and sinker for it. If there was one to be appointed, he should be appointed ASAP.

I have little doubts that the club won't appoint a DOF which is why I accept that the footballing side of things is dealt by the manager and Woodward, and why I blame the manager and Woodward accordingly to their publicized responsibilities. Unlike you I don't pretend that it's not our setup, I simply accept it.

 

[CA1]

Every other English club lack the funds to compete with City in the market right now - only we can come close.

Even if we take them out of the equation we are falling behind the competition.

Chelsea and Liverpool spent far more than us this summer.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

I'd be interested to know if anyone poster on here believes that we've signed any players that Jose was against us signing.

I am not saying he signed anyone not wanted, but that he signed the lesser quality options, often overpaying and did not for some positions at all cos of price.

 

[JPRouve]

The list was reported to have 5 midfielders (Mourinho wanted 2 of them): Jorginho, Kovacic, Milinković-Savić, Weigl and Fred, with Fred being the last on the list. He could not secure the two preferred targets and had to settle for only one and the last option at that, but still decide to overpay for him. That we ended up with only the average player is on him or should Mourinho have listed only the best players? cos then he is likely to be accused of wanting the unattainable.

It was widely reported that inter wanted £49m for Perisic or Martial+cash and Leicester was reportedly holding out for £80m for Maguire.

Players rarely push for moves, so dont see the relevance of it.

What is your source? You do realize that journalists barely have an idea about who the targets are, let alone how they are ranked?

Edit: Please tell me that you didn't use a slider from Sportskeeda.

 

[CA1]

I still don't know how this one got promoted. Nonsensical posting

Next season on here is going to be quality entertainment.

People's brains are going to be fried on who to blame for the fact we'll still be like 4th/5th or whatever.

I have so much ammo lined up to taunt some of our fans tbh. It could get pretty messy.

 

[Bilbo]

I think 2 of those players would have started if fit. And I do agree with your points but of late he has found some form of continuity in his defensive selection and in the front 3. If the caf were to post a first XI by their choice it would probably be identical barring Matic.

Maybe all three of them would have started if available. They have all been available for most of the season. Losing away at City should not generate the kind of reaction it has this week in isolation. It has done so because its another embarrassment in a season that has already had far too many of them, often involving those players that were missing.

Regarding your last point I agree. My issue with him is not generally around the team selection (apart from his self-serving make-a-point selections he is prone to) its the way he sets the team up and how he instructs us to play.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

No of course not. It’s up to the scouts and manager to stop putting players of low quality and compatibility on the list.

If all the targets are unobtainable (let’s say Messi and Ronaldo were recommended), then it’s the fault of the scouting team and manager for not being able to identify anyone else who can also do the job. Otherwise the manager will just keep asking for the very best, unobtainable players, and when they inevitably don’t sign, he will say “I’m not in charge of the quality of the squad, I wanted Neymar, Hazard, Griezmann and De Bruyne”. A truly preposterous notion.

A player is only truly unobtainable if he doesnt want to join the club. As obtainable as many deemed CR7 in the past, he still joined Juve last summer. many would have deemed Neymar unobtainable but he joined PSG for 200m.

Beyond the player's wishes, it is simply a matter of cash.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Maradona has spoken:

https://www.rt.com/sport/443950-maradona-mourinho-better-than-guardiola/

 

[Bilbo]

I am not saying he signed anyone not wanted, but that he signed the lesser quality options, often overpaying and did not for some positions at all cos of price.

I have some sympathy for Woodward there. Top class players are harder to sign than ever, and players are only ever considered to be overpriced unless they turn out to be a failure.

Nobody ever says £50m on Stones and Walker was poor value, but they did at the time.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

I still don't know how this one got promoted. Nonsensical posting

I actually find it really funny & haven't ever laughed in the CAF as much as I have for the last two days

Real fans want Woodward out & fake fans wants Jose out - like we have to choose one or the other; what happens to fans who want both out

 

[cheeky_backheel]

That's it dude, you must be a WUM 100%, that Toby wasn't at fault bs really tells it all.

I mean the lengths you would go in order to fuel your narrative and push you're agenda are straight-up ridiculous.

How can you even believe in that stuff you're spewing out is beyond me.

Just answer the basic question - is Toby better than all of our current CBs?

 

[fellaini's barber]

Wrong - I would rather you relate the amount spent to the quality of the squad assembled with it

So what do you think is the quality of our squad in relationship to $400m?

 

[Robbie Boy]

This thread is getting funnier by the day, some proper mentalists around

 

[Bilbo]

Chelsea and Liverpool spent far more than us this summer.

They sure did, and it may perfectly explain why those clubs are getting better, but it doesn't explain why we are getting worse

 

[Patrick08]

The list was reported to have 5 midfielders (Mourinho wanted 2 of them): Jorginho, Kovacic, Milinković-Savić, Weigl and Fred, with Fred being the last on the list. He could not secure the two preferred targets and had to settle for only one and the last option at that, but still decide to overpay for him. That we ended up with only the average player is on him or should Mourinho have listed only the best players? cos then he is likely to be accused of wanting the unattainable

I suggest you should stop reading Daily mail.

 

[JonDahl]

Beyond the player's wishes, it is simply a matter of cash.

Yes, (assuming the club want to sell as well) this is obvious - if we can afford it. But our financial situation isn’t in a position where we can continuously spunk £150 million up the wall and not have to pay for it at some point down the line. So let’s not be disingenuous and pretend we can pay every top target the £500k a week they want with no repercussions.

Remember, Ed is not responsible for the quality of the squad.

 

[JPRouve]

I suggest you should stop reading Daily mail.

That's not even the daily mail, it's kind of worse than that. The Daily Mail and many other papers had Fred has one of the two main targets, they all have different lists but two names come back often Milinko-Savic and Fred.

 

[markhughes]

I personally think Mourinho should stay until the end of the season though I would be reluctant to spend too much money away in the January window with our recent track record, maybe we could bring in a CB or RM during the window if the right opportunity comes along.

Our signings have been so bad over the past few years, when was the last time that the club made a successful signing? In the last 5-6 years the only two players I would consider a success are RVP (6 years ago) and Mata (5 Years ago), the latter is debatable perhaps.

These signings were prior to Mourinho of course but demonstrates that we have bigger issues with player recruitment than simply blaming Mourinho, seriously we are supposed to be one of the biggest clubs in the world and we have had (from my perspective) two successful signings in 6 years, something is very broken at this club.

Personally I would rather us play youngsters who have talent and a passion for the club than some of our current "stars", I could deal with us languishing in mid table for a year or two if we were making progress with our youth, we have some VERY good young players and I hope that we can at least see them in the cup competitions this year, I highly doubt it though.

Even with a top four finish this year I would say that we need to make changes right across the club, DOF and a focus on youth would be a good start along with a few top signings but I just dont see it happening.

 

[JonDahl]

This thread is getting funnier by the day, some proper mentalists around

CA1 is a wum, but he’s giving these other nutters the confidence to come out and spew complete nonsense. More and more are coming out the woodwork, following in his lead, blaming anyone they can apart from the man responsible.

 

[Greck]

I still don't know how this one got promoted. Nonsensical posting

Mod needs to face a panel. Perhaps Redcafe now sells promotion

 

[VP89]

Maybe all three of them would have started if available. They have all been available for most of the season. Losing away at City should not generate the kind of reaction it has this week in isolation. It has done so because its another embarrassment in a season that has already had far too many of them, often involving those players that were missing.

Regarding your last point I agree. My issue with him is not generally around the team selection (apart from his self-serving make-a-point selections he is prone to) its the way he sets the team up and how he instructs us to play.

He seems to be vocally claiming that he instructs quicker start to games and higher presses though.

Its obviously not working yet clearly!

 

[Casanova85]

Now that Fellaini has got a new haircut, we'll get 12 consecutive wins.

 

[Random Task]

I actually find it really funny & haven't ever laughed in the CAF as much as I have for the last two days

Real fans want Woodward out & fake fans wants Jose out - like we have to choose one or the other; what happens to fans who want both out

You will be severely punished.

No longer will you be permitted to support United, instead you will be forced to follow Rochdale. Dems the rules I'm afraid.

 

[Red_toad]

So the reason we can't string passes together,attack or defend properly,cant press for shit, 8th on the table is because after buying like 10 players over 2 seasons, we didn't get one or two more this summer?

The club retained the manager, the club did not get key players the manager wanted. I’d say yes 2 world class player added to our starting 11 would make a huge difference. But that cannot be proven, as it didn’t happen.

 

[Thisistheone]

Some stats here for Jose:

* United have a negative goal difference (-1) after the first 12 games of a top-flight season for the first time since 1977/78 (-1).

* Fulham (0) are the only club to keep fewer clean sheets than United (1) this season. Cardiff and Huddersfield (both 2) have more.

* Joe Hart (54), Lukasz Fabianski (49) and Mat Ryan (46) are the only keepers to have made more saves than David De Gea (42) in the Premier League this season.

* United have conceded as many shots in the Premier League this season as Huddersfield (154).

* United have scored fewer goals (45) than Bournemouth (46), and conceded more (33) than Newcastle (32) in the Premier League in 2018.

* United have scored fewer open play goals in the Premier League this season (12) than Watford (13).

* Mourinho has lost 26 of his 137 United games. He has only lost more games during a single managerial spell once (27 losses in second Chelsea tenure).

Bloody hell.

Sack him.

 

[fellaini's barber]

The club retained the manager, the club did not get key players the manager wanted. I’d say yes 2 world class player added to our starting 11 would make a huge difference. But that cannot be proven, as it didn’t happen.

You surely can't be talking about Maguire and Alderweirld are you?

 

[fellaini's barber]

The list was reported to have 5 midfielders (Mourinho wanted 2 of them): Jorginho, Kovacic, Milinković-Savić, Weigl and Fred, with Fred being the last on the list. He could not secure the two preferred targets and had to settle for only one and the last option at that, but still decide to overpay for him. That we ended up with only the average player is on him or should Mourinho have listed only the best players? cos then he is likely to be accused of wanting the unattainable.

It was widely reported that inter wanted £49m for Perisic or Martial+cash and Leicester was reportedly holding out for £80m for Maguire.

Players rarely push for moves, so dont see the relevance of it.

,Thought you had already outdone yourself with 'Jose wanted Dier but got Matic instead',but you are the gift that just keeps on giving

 

[roonster09]

,Thought you had already outdone yourself with 'Jose wanted Dier but got Matic instead',but you are the gift that just keeps on giving

It's like this guy was with Jose when he drafted the list

 

[fellaini's barber]

It's like this guy was with Jose when he drafted the list

He invented all these stories between Sunday and today, will continue inventing them till Jose leaves it seems

 

[JPRouve]

It's like this guy was with Jose when he drafted the list

The same list, in the same order:https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/jose-mourinho-s-midfield-targets-for-the-summer

 

[roonster09]

The same list, in the same order:https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/jose-Mourinho-s-midfield-targets-for-the-summer

That source

 

[Kapardin]

Next season on here is going to be quality entertainment.

People's brains are going to be fried on who to blame for the fact we'll still be like 4th/5th or whatever.

I have so much ammo lined up to taunt some of our fans tbh. It could get pretty messy.

Well, do you think that if the next manager fails, it would vindicate Jose? Absolutely not. Just as Jose flopping doesn't vindicate LvG or Moyes, the next manager failing won't vindicate Jose.

Ed is at fault, but only 50% of the blame is his. Our squad isn't worse than Brighton or West Ham. Anyway, seems like you are hoping we would fail just to ensure your idol Jose keeps his rep intact.

Choosing the right manager is paramount. Mourinho is the wrong manager. So is Zidane IMO. Not sure about Pochettino, his constant comments about domestic cups not being important don't sound great, his European record bar last season is dodgy and his teams don't play champagne football as the myth goes.

Ironically, the only manager that ticks all the boxes is Conte -- and with him, we would still have a defensive style of play.

 

[fellaini's barber]

I suggest you should stop reading Daily mail.

That load of bollocks has nothing to do with the Daily Mail, he's pulling them out of his arse as he goes along

 

[RedDevil@84]

The list was reported to have 5 midfielders (Mourinho wanted 2 of them): Jorginho, Kovacic, Milinković-Savić, Weigl and Fred, with Fred being the last on the list. He could not secure the two preferred targets and had to settle for only one and the last option at that, but still decide to overpay for him. That we ended up with only the average player is on him or should Mourinho have listed only the best players? cos then he is likely to be accused of wanting the unattainable.

Any name on the list, Jose should be sure that the player can do the job in the way he wants or be sure that the player could be brought up to that level in reasonable time and the team is good enough to give the player that time.

He should not be putting average players in the list, if he feels they are not good enough to do the profile he wants. It doesn't make sense to put a 10 member list to Woodward and then complain when Woodward gives him the 10th.

Not excusing Woodward's crap negotiation skills with players, but the list is always on Jose.