The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

kouroux said:
Well said, he should never have left Barca. That team would have won 1 more CL at least and many more La Ligas
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Why not? He got his wish and made space for Dembele and Coutinho, helping BVB, LP and PSG at the same time.
RM didn't mind it either ;)
 
Feels similar to Bale, unreal players who’ve achieved a tremendous amount. But probably fallen just short of that undisputed best title they clearly had the ability for.
 
He was the worst of the front 3, and that's an achievement next to this version of Messi.
 
Never liked him as a player. There’s little doubting his natural ability, and he had some seasons where he was world class and appeared on the precipice of greatness, but his move to PSG was always a complete circus. All about money and marketing, very little about football. He’s often “injured” and you have to doubt his professionalism. He’s got some records in the books, especially for Brasil, but I doubt he will be remembered in the same breath as Ronaldinho or Luis Ronaldo. He certainly doesn’t garner the same sort of affection. Because whereas they exuded joy on the pitch, he seems like a snide little rat with his ridiculous theatrics and persona.

Not a fan.
 
The rumour mill saying PSG want to move on from him. Probably as part of convincing Mbappé to stay and build a project around him. But who's gonna want to pay Neymar´s salary?
 
simonhch said:
Never liked him as a player. There’s little doubting his natural ability, and he had some seasons where he was world class and appeared on the precipice of greatness, but his move to PSG was always a complete circus. All about money and marketing, very little about football. He’s often “injured” and you have to doubt his professionalism. He’s got some records in the books, especially for Brasil, but I doubt he will be remembered in the same breath as Ronaldinho or Luis Ronaldo. He certainly doesn’t garner the same sort of affection. Because whereas they exuded joy on the pitch, he seems like a snide little rat with his ridiculous theatrics and persona.

Not a fan.
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Well said. It’s a shame because he is so much natural ability, but I hate his theatrics, and he’s a little too cozy with his sister, Cersei.
 
The highest amount of league games he has played in a season for PSG is 20!
 
I'm one that does think he was incredible at one stage of his career, if a little lacking in direction at times. He's lost his pace/acceleration these days and he's just not the same player. When he was at Barca and earlier on at PSG he was brilliant. I think he always just lacked a coach to connect with him that would harness his talents into 100% effectiveness. Kind of like how Fergie shaped Ronaldo from showboating winger to incredible all-round attacker that was practically unstoppable.
 
elmo said:
Newcastle if they stay up.
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I thought about that, but could you really picture Neymar moving to Newcastle of all places? The Saudis would have to build him a climate controlled Copacabana on the Tyne.
 
Liver_bird said:
Feels similar to Bale, unreal players who’ve achieved a tremendous amount. But probably fallen just short of that undisputed best title they clearly had the ability for.
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Bale's massively overachieved. Not comparable in the slightest really.
 
Just checking highlights from PSG game today. Getting booed by his own fans even when scoring, absolutely brutal! Never seen anything like that.

.
 
I feel like he's been semi-retired since joining PSG.

Can only see him massively taking the piss if he was to go to Newcastle for a year or two.
 
He's played 84 league games for PSG and never more than 20 a season. And he's been there 5 years.
 
RoyH1 said:
The rumour mill saying PSG want to move on from him. Probably as part of convincing Mbappé to stay and build a project around him. But who's gonna want to pay Neymar´s salary?
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If Woodward were still here I'd be worried. But now I expect Newcastle to be the ones who will sign the overpaid and unmotivated wasters out there
 
GDaly95 said:
I feel like he's been semi-retired since joining PSG.

Can only see him massively taking the piss if he was to go to Newcastle for a year or two.
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He shouldn't leave PSG; as you said, golden semi-retirement: Qatar connection (without actually playing in Qatar), farmers league (other than Lyon, OM, Monaco, Lille, etc.), already too old for the PL.

But the likes of Inter or Juve might take the bait...

Other than that, 2-3 more seasons with PSG, and then Miami...
 
It's so sad the level he has been this season. Not even a shadow of the player he was. I hope people watched his first few games in PSG when he tried to show he was the best player in the world, he was absolutely amazing and looked like a Messi/Ronaldinho hybrid. :(
 
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Korwas said:
It's so sad the level he has been this season. Not even a shadow of the player he was. I hope people watched his first few games in PSG when he tried to show he was the best player in the world, he was absolutely amazing and looked like a Messi/Ronaldinho hybrid. :(
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It was very fun 5 years ago, but simply hasn't shown it enough in the games that really mattered.

He still has moments of brilliance, but he's not available enough and he's just physically declined over time. He's had some really massive injuries, foot and back that could really derail a career. As many issues as I have with Neymar, I never questioned his desire. He's always looking to compete and give it his all, but his all is so limited at times that it can be a liability for what he's paid. If Newcastle wanted him, I wouldn't have an issue letting him go. PSG produce some of the best talents in France and they often never make it to the squad but show elsewhere that they belong. A little more trust in their youth set up, a better integration, and losing Neymar isn't a big deal. Right now, I'm sure players like Nkunku or Diaby would have done as good of a job as he has this season at the very least, and quite possibly been more productive.
 
GDaly95 said:
I feel like he's been semi-retired since joining PSG.

Can only see him massively taking the piss if he was to go to Newcastle for a year or two.
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Apparently he talked about eventually going to the US because they have a shorter season. Honestly I think he sees himself as semi-retired as well and is happy with it.
 
Made it to his sister’s birthday.

FNlR5XKXEAYNvg9
 
Korwas said:
It's so sad the level he has been this season. Not even a shadow of the player he was. I hope people watched his first few games in PSG when he tried to show he was the best player in the world, he was absolutely amazing and looked like a Messi/Ronaldinho hybrid. :(
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He's had a great career in my view. It's just lacking a major international trophy. He's won everything else, scored about 400 goals (amazing for a guy who's not an out and out striker) and dazzled with some exceptional play. As recently as last summer he was truly brilliant for Brazil in the Copa America but just fell a bit short.

I just think people keep expecting him to be Messi or Ronaldo and he's not. But he's still really really good.
 
GifLord said:
You have to be joking?
Just from Italy he had Shevchenko, Nedved, Totti, a young Kaka and Adriano.
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The two brazilians were studs who weren't really in the conversation of best though until towards the end of his peak and had an even shorter one than he did. Obviously, there were other great players around, but Sheva pretty much started declining by 2005-06 and put a stake through his career's heart with his move the Chelsea, Nedved had just won the ballon d'Or and never made the top 3 again. Those are not huge roadblocks that are consistently stopping you from individual awards year after year, I used Zidane and R9 as an example because they're the names that usually came up in the individual awards the most often, sometimes whether it was deserved or not, and that went for Ballon d'Or just like World Player of the year they used to have.

I'm not dismissing the names you mentioned, but there's no argument that Neymar's competition for the top individual awards was greater than what R10 dealt with in his prime and if they had traded eras, I think Neymar gets at least one individual award throughout his career and is looked at vastly differently. I'm going to post this in the Neymar thread because I'm most definitely hijacking the topic with this conversation.
 
Sayros said:
The two brazilians were studs who weren't really in the conversation of best though until towards the end of his peak and had an even shorter one than he did. Obviously, there were other great players around, but Sheva pretty much started declining by 2005-06 and put a stake through his career's heart with his move the Chelsea, Nedved had just won the ballon d'Or and never made the top 3 again. Those are not huge roadblocks that are consistently stopping you from individual awards year after year, I used Zidane and R9 as an example because they're the names that usually came up in the individual awards the most often, sometimes whether it was deserved or not, and that went for Ballon d'Or just like World Player of the year they used to have.

I'm not dismissing the names you mentioned, but there's no argument that Neymar's competition for the top individual awards was greater than what R10 dealt with in his prime and if they had traded eras, I think Neymar gets at least one individual award throughout his career and is looked at vastly differently. I'm going to post this in the Neymar thread because I'm most definitely hijacking the topic with this conversation.
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Neymar was competing with 2 players regularly called the GOAT
 
Sayros said:
The two brazilians were studs who weren't really in the conversation of best though until towards the end of his peak and had an even shorter one than he did. Obviously, there were other great players around, but Sheva pretty much started declining by 2005-06 and put a stake through his career's heart with his move the Chelsea, Nedved had just won the ballon d'Or and never made the top 3 again. Those are not huge roadblocks that are consistently stopping you from individual awards year after year, I used Zidane and R9 as an example because they're the names that usually came up in the individual awards the most often, sometimes whether it was deserved or not, and that went for Ballon d'Or just like World Player of the year they used to have.

I'm not dismissing the names you mentioned, but there's no argument that Neymar's competition for the top individual awards was greater than what R10 dealt with in his prime and if they had traded eras, I think Neymar gets at least one individual award throughout his career and is looked at vastly differently. I'm going to post this in the Neymar thread because I'm most definitely hijacking the topic with this conversation.
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Messi and Ronaldo made everyone look like scrubs. I think any player who finished 3rd behind those 2 in any Balon dor/WPOTY should be given a special recognition
 


special player. different cloth. football comes so easy to him, it’s ridiculous
 
TsuWave said:


special player. different cloth. football comes so easy to him, it’s ridiculous
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Interesting there not many snippets of Neymar at PSG in that highlights reel.
 
youmeletsfly said:
Ronaldinho levels of talent, but with the level of effort compared to me in the office on a Friday.
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You guys talk about Neymar as if he isn’t an incredibly decorated player and was not a top 5 player in the world for like a decade or something. Guy was only second to Messi and Ronaldo.
 
TsuWave said:
You guys talk about Neymar as if he isn’t an incredibly decorated player and was not a top 5 player in the world for like a decade or something. Guy was only second to Messi and Ronaldo.
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His ability is way beyond what he has achieved though. He likes the spotlight and the parties too much and his transfer to PSG was a terrible move. He needed a manager at a big club to motivate him and he had too much power there because of the nature of that deal and the money paid for him.

He did reach those heights temporarily, but he should have done more and shouldn’t even need arguments in his favour. His talent was ridiculous from his very first days here at Santos.

Bad decisions and a bad attitude have blunted what should have been something incredible.

The fact that he has had the career he has had, in spite of that, shows just how insanely naturally gifted he is.
 
Unbelievable natural talent that I tend to forget due to him being a complete arse of an individual
 
TsuWave said:
You guys talk about Neymar as if he isn’t an incredibly decorated player and was not a top 5 player in the world for like a decade or something. Guy was only second to Messi and Ronaldo.
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He hasn't been top 5 since at least 2018 or so.

Being talented isn't the only thing to consider him top of the top, he is a very lazy player who prefers to party.

Not that he is only one, brazilian players like Adriano, Ronaldinho,Romario,Robinho, and R9 did the same, which is why their peak didn't last long.
 
FrankFoot said:
He hasn't been top 5 since at least 2018 or so.

Being talented isn't the only thing to consider him top of the top, he is a very lazy player who prefers to party.

Not that he is only one, brazilian players like Adriano, Ronaldinho,Romario,Robinho, and R9 did the same, which is why their peak didn't last long.
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I disagree, but even still, that would still make him a highly decorated player - arguably top 3 for half a decade - and only behind two players who are considered by many the best that ever played, during said stretch of time.

Nonetheless - and this is off topic - but did anyone at any point say that being talented is the only thing to consider anyone top of the top? Why did you go off in that random tangent and then branched out talking about Brazilian players liking to party? Do you believe random paragraphs add validity to what you said previously?
 
Maluco said:
His ability is way beyond what he has achieved though. He likes the spotlight and the parties too much and his transfer to PSG was a terrible move. He needed a manager at a big club to motivate him and he had too much power there because of the nature of that deal and the money paid for him.

He did reach those heights temporarily, but he should have done more and shouldn’t even need arguments in his favour. His talent was ridiculous from his very first days here at Santos.

Bad decisions and a bad attitude have blunted what should have been something incredible.

The fact that he has had the career he has had, in spite of that, shows just how insanely naturally gifted he is.
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Nearly everything you've written here is false. His ability is way beyond what he has achieved?

Let's look at those achievements shall we?

He has 27 trophies including the Champions League (he was also top scorer in the year that he won it)

He's scored over 100 goals for 3 different clubs. People will obviously try and denigrate him doing it at Santos and PSG. The problem with the short sighted take is that barely anyone has done this, no matter what leagues they played in. The only ones in the last 80 years are C Ronaldo and Romario. That's it. Zlatan hasn't done it and he has 500+ goals.

Number of career goals: 400+

I mean, do people get how astonishing this is for a player that is not an out and out striker? He's a number 10/attacking midfielder. Try and think of another current number 10 not named Messi with 400 goals. You'll be thinking a long time

Career goals and assists, 650

Self explanatory

Goals and assists for Brazil: 74 goals and FIFTY ONE ASSISTS in 119 games.

He has more assists at international level than Messi in about 50 less games and a better goal ratio than Messi, Ronaldo. Lewa, Suarez, Zlatan. Aguero, Benzema and a whole host of other prolific scorers. And again, he's not even a striker.

People hate this guy for reasons that make no sense to me. But the falsehood that he hasn't achieved anything despite his talent needs to die a quick death. People talk about him like he's freaking Ravel Morrison FFS.
 
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