The PL is in decline

[Nani Nana]

The European Superleague project is apparently taking shape and it would not be possible without the PL giants.

In the past weeks, I understood why. The Premier League has decreased in quality over the past few seasons, triggered by several factors:

- The departure of renowned managers (Ferguson, Wenger)
- The decrease in expenditures from wealthy owners
- Poor resource allocation

Overall, watching Chelsea yesterday with three average homegrown players in the starting 11 (Abraham, Mount and James) who would not get near the bench of Chelsea 2004-05, I noticed it is happening across the board.

MUFC have struggled to fill the leadership gap left by Ferguson. Yet MCFC have struggled in Europe and flattered to deceive for the best part of 10 years.

Liverpool performed extremely well on the continental stage and domestically, but with injuries, it looks like the cycle is over.

Generally speaking, out of the best six teams in the league, all but one are worse than ten years ago.

Have a great week

 

[thegregster]

I think overall football has declined.

The 90s till around 2017 saw some amazing teams and Ronaldo/Messi hit amazing heights. Mostly down to leagues getting access to players from all over the world. Club teams became incredibly strong.

I think the PL has been in decline for years. It peaked from 2006-2009.

 

[SER19]

I think the prospect of the super league is more to do with other nations to be honest. The domination of bayern, Juve and psg have all but nullified three of the 'big 5'.

Im against the idea of the super league though. We expect too much from football. 38 games, may the best team win, some sporting drama along the way. That should be enough. All the fecking with it for years has led to this latest idea.

 

[bond19821982]

Name a club which is consistently doing well . May be Bayern because they have a monopoly in German players.

Juve ? Barca ? Real ? The football has declined in general.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I think it is getting better. Particular feels like it when watching older games.

We are worse though relative to others so that is why it feels worse.
Teams like Sunderland, Bolton, Stoke and West Brom are not badly missed. Although I miss Sunderland vs Newcastle.

 

[Dancfc]

Umm what?

RB was our one chink in our armour back then, James is comfortably better than what both Ferreira and Johnson were.

 

[SirMarcusRashford]

The Premier League is the European Super League.

Clubs outside England have been trying for years to end Premier League financial dominance. As much as people hate to admit it, the Premier League is the envy of the world in a football sense (money/various playing styles/competiveness/drama/players playing here/managers managing here/atmospheres/history and worldwide appeal), English clubs would be fools to ruin what we have in this league.

 

[youngrell]

Yet all 4 teams in CL top their groups currently, with only spurs letting down the EL teams with their inferior head to head record.

As first reply says, it's more likely the whole of football.

A lot of the big clubs are in weak positions compared to the previous decade.

 

[Righteous Steps]

The PL was worst in the 90’s.

 

[balaks]

What a load of old bollocks.

Football has declined because Utd don't win the league anymore - that's all I'm reading from this.

The quality of the football and players in the Premiership is incredibly high and has some of the best managers in the world in it. Were you alive in the 1990's?

 

[JJ12]

I think it’s in a better state than all of the other leagues.

The top teams have declined slightly but other teams have improved making it far more competitive.

The top teams are still amongst the best in Europe also.

 

[Nani Nana]

What a load of old bollocks.

Football has declined because Utd don't win the league anymore - that's all I'm reading from this.

The quality of the football and players in the Premiership is incredibly high and has some of the best managers in the world in it. Were you alive in the 1990's?

Yes, I started watching football in the 1990s.

Disagree with the managers, Mourinho (who I love) is using the same tactics as fifteen years ago, Guardiola too, let alone Ancelotti, altogether a shortage of new ideas and personnel. All past their peaks whilst the likes of OGS, Lampard and Arteta are not fit to lace their shoes still.

 

[GenZRed]

The OP would have been right if they were talking about the Premier League 2011-2016.

 

[Ole's screen]

What are you even talking about? The PL today has the best established managers(Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Jose) as well an a lot of very good up and coming managers. What are we even comparing it to? A 2 horse La Liga with a failed Everton manager as the manager of Barca? A 1 horse French or German League?

You can maybe argue Serie A is more tactical, but even then I'd say you're living at least a decade in the past and confusing low intensity with more tactical.

 

[Lynty]

Just a cycle.

World football does seem to lack an abundance of top players at present. But there's plenty with the potential to become world class.

Problem for the top EPL clubs, the top 4 became the top 6 - so talent is spread thinner, then on top of that - all the rest of the clubs can just refuse to sell now, they can ask stupid money for their best players. Top talent is spread across the league instead of gathering in the top 4 clubs. You'd think this would make a more competitive league, and in my opinion it does - as every club does have the ability to hurt you. But coaching standards are still a decade behind. Managers like Bruce, Pardew and Pulis are still (or were for the large majority of this decade) premier league staples.

 

[Jonno]

La Liga has declined.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

There will be no European Super League. I'm still loving football.

 

[Offside]

All goes in circles. 18/19 for me the top 2 in the Premier League were the top 2 teams in the world. Same in 07/08. 15/16 none of the top 5 were a top 5 team in the world. Now it’s looking open again. As I say, it’s cyclical.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

La Liga has declined.

Real and Barca have declined, its much more competitive now.

 

[Jonno]

Real and Barca have declined, its much more competitive now.

It’s more competitive because of their decline

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

It’s more competitive because of their decline

Yeah 2 teams decline, not the whole league.

 

[horsechoker]

A decline is inevitable but as far as leagues go, I think that PL is the strongest.

The only top European league that comes close is La Liga where 2 teams and possibly Atletico have a realistic chance of winning the league.

The Bundesliga might be quite competitive below Bayern Munich but Dortmund have failed to win the league since Klopp was there.

It's quite telling that only one team has managed three Premier League title wins in a row, it goes to show how competitive the league is. Dominance doesn't seem to last long, whereas in Europe there are teams who are on five, six, seven titles in a row.

Even if the Premier League declined it would still be the strongest league, other leagues have declined to such a point where they seemingly don't have a hope of winning the league or coming close unless the big dog has a major crisis.

 

[Jonno]

Yeah 2 teams decline, not the whole league.

I disagree. Barca and Real declining, drastically, makes it an easier league to play in and therefore the standard has declined.

 

[Reynoldo]

The Premier League is the European Super League.

Clubs outside England have been trying for years to end Premier League financial dominance. As much as people hate to admit it, the Premier League is the envy of the world in a football sense (money/various playing styles/competiveness/drama/players playing here/managers managing here/atmospheres/history and worldwide appeal), English clubs would be fools to ruin what we have in this league.

They should just suggest then that Bayern, Juve, Barca, PSG And Real just come join the EPL and be done with it

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I disagree. Barca and Real declining, drastically, makes it an easier league to play in and therefore the standard has declined.

If you count 2 teams as the "standard" you are right, I don't.

 

[Zen86]

Football declines, while the money and politics increases. Go figure.

 

[njred]

There will be no European Super League. I'm still loving football.

I think it’s inevitable that it’s coming. If it does they without a doubt should make rule of no VAR. Unfortunately the footballing world is pandering to younger fans that will no doubt spend money to watch the top teams in the world compete. I have nothing against getting fans involved who are younger but the Super league will draw them in for the big names and big clubs.

 

[R77]

Not sure I agree with the premise, but we all see things differently so it's a fair observation.

Several of the most influential managers of recent times are in the league. Teams in the bottom half are as likely as ever to take points of the higher teams. You could argue that tactical aptitude and variety is at an all time high. Even teams like Brighton and Villa have players of quality enough that it's worthwhile tuning in to watch.

Seems to me the game is changing in a way that doesn't necessarily make for better entertainment though. VAR has done little for the consistency of decisions. Rule changes re; arm contact are ridiculous. Anything covid related, from scheduling to the possibility that only some teams might be allowed fans, are unfair. It's kinda analogous to supporting the club with the reptile ownership though. You just carry on.

 

[Green_Red]

The reason they want a european super league is because the big european clubs dont make as much money from their domestic leagues as the English clubs do. Those big European clubs are afraid if they dont act now theyll succumb to the growing financial clout of the English clubs.

The Euro spuer league should be rejected outright by English clubs.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

How do you define decline. Less fun to watch? Statistically worse in different metrics? Worse results for certain teams in Europe?

 

[TheLord]

Completely disagree with the OP.
Football, in general, doesn’t have too many talismans after Messi and Ronaldo7 started declining and I can’t think of a single year since the 1980s when this last happened. I can’t think of a single player in 2020 who inspires awe - maybe, Messi occasionally, don’t know.

Or may be because there’s so much in-depth analysis of footballers and such extensive media scrutiny that not many footballers look like “generational talents” these days.

If only you’d spare some moments watching the Spanish and Italian leagues these days, you would NOT have created this thread.

The PL is incredibly competitive, full of immensely talented players and managers, and is the envy of the world. No other league comes close. There are many players in midtable PL teams who’d make the starting places of most top continental clubs in 2020. I don’t think this ever happened.

 

[bosnian_red]

It hasn't declined. It comes in waves. Premier league in the mid-late 2000's was top, then Spanish football took over for the next 5-8 years while premier league had a lull. The prem over the past 4 years though has been consistently improving, coinciding with Klopp/Pep/Mourinho coming back in the league. Thats backed up by trophies and further progression in the European competitions. Liverpool and City of the last few years are roughly on par with any of the best sides in the Premier League Era (or at least, in the conversation). The coaching, standard of players in the league, and the change in standings every year show the high level across the league, making it hard to predict. Judging it based on European performance is always a good barometer of a league quality overall though. Not fluke years, but consistent performance and progression.

This year is a weird year because of covid, it has an impact on just so many levels without fans and all that. But ignoring the covid aspect, I'd say the PL was at a bit of a peak in the wave these last couple of years. It just doesn't feel like that for United because we've still been shit throughout it.

 

[Oldyella]

Umm what?

RB was our one chink in our armour back then, James is comfortably better than what both Ferreira and Johnson were.

Agreed. I really rate Mount too. Maybe he wouldn't get in your championship sides but he would make the bench at least.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Overall, watching Chelsea yesterday with three average homegrown players in the starting 11 (Abraham, Mount and James) who would not get near the bench of Chelsea 2004-05, I noticed it is happening across the board.

Chelsea of 04/05 were by a mile the best team in the country and players like Jarosik, Smertin and Huth still got a lot of minutes.

The spread of talent might be a bit more even but I think the actual number of good players in the league is probably higher than it was at that point.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I think it’s inevitable that it’s coming. If it does they without a doubt should make rule of no VAR. Unfortunately the footballing world is pandering to younger fans that will no doubt spend money to watch the top teams in the world compete. I have nothing against getting fans involved who are younger but the Super league will draw them in for the big names and big clubs.

I don't see what a Superleague would give fans that the CL doesn't already give, I love the CL don't get me wrong but I enjoy the rivalry of the domestic league, much, much more. I am pretty sure I'm not in the minority either.

 

[11101]

I think overall football has declined.

The 90s till around 2017 saw some amazing teams and Ronaldo/Messi hit amazing heights. Mostly down to leagues getting access to players from all over the world. Club teams became incredibly strong.

I think the PL has been in decline for years. It peaked from 2006-2009.

Yeah, agreed. These things go in cycles every 10 years or so. Early 2010s saw a drop off, early 2000s was very poor.

Two specific individuals aside, I think to some extent the last 8 or 10 years have been quite poor for club football. Probably 2013 Bayern was the last properly great team.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Not for me but we are arguably seeing a consequence of too much coverage and a lack of new ideas. Unless you go to games, what we see when we see with football is ultimately what we're fed through media and broadcasters have become far more routine over the past five years.

An easy fix would be new and better analysis/pundits/commentators but, for whatever reason, they haven't moved on in that direction since G Nev joined Sky. Before that, when BT got on the game - though they didn't really do anything except try to copy Sky.

 

[Drifter]

I have lost that buzz for football. Just think there is way too much of it. Remember laughing at this at the time, but it's the way I feel now.

 

[RedRonaldo]

We still have the 3 best manager in the game, so, the decline is not too bad.

 

[FootballHQ]

Might just be me but I prefer seasons when 4-5 teams are massively in title races and teams at top are regularly dropping points on weekly basis.

Of course I appreciate great teams like Liverpool and Man. City in recent years but can't say I find it riverting when they both barely draw a game up to February and finish on or very close to 100 points.

Man. United won plenty of league titles in 90s and early 2000s with great teams in 75-85 point range after all.

I much prefered La Liga in the late 90s when someone like Deportivo La Coruna could win it with 69 points than a decade later when Real Madrid finished 2nd on 96 points, 25 points clear of 3rd.

For a neutral Serie A is surely more exciting this year than last 4-5 years with Juve miles clear and NID to win the league.

One thing that has declined though is quality of bottom end teams. In the 90s you were very likely to get relegated if you didn't get to 40 points and likely this season Burnley will stay up with about 30 points which isn't a good look considering the money now being spent at the bottom end.

On playing front, think the top teams are incredibly strong now with front 3 options but wouldn't say the defence and midfield set ups are close to what top 6 teams had in 2006-2009 period but that's probably reflective of how much football has been a counter attacking game at top level now.