The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[No11]

need some help here.


Looking at the judges cards I am a bit surprised there were no tied rounds. Even on here I see people saying Golovkin won 8-4, 7-5.
I will watch the fight again, but from memory I had at least 4 rounds that were difficult to separate the 2, had Golovkin win 5 and Canelo 3.
I certainly didn't see Golovkin win 8 rounds, so why no tied rounds?

 

[Kazi]

need some help here.


Looking at the judges cards I am a bit surprised there were no tied rounds. Even on here I see people saying Golovkin won 8-4, 7-5.
I will watch the fight again, but from memory I had at least 4 rounds that were difficult to separate the 2, had Golovkin win 5 and Canelo 3.
I certainly didn't see Golovkin win 8 rounds, so why no tied rounds?

10-10 rounds are generally very rare in boxing.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Just watched a sky program on Povetkin, in the buildup to next weekend. Seemed quite a classy guy, humble, down to earth (in a hard-as-feck Russian kind of way)

 

[giorno]

I certainly didn't see Golovkin win 8 rounds, so why no tied rounds?

Because people don't like tied rounds

FWIW, i had trouble scoring the 1st(GGG), 3rd(Canelo) and 9th(GGG). I could see all three rounds being scored draws. I'd have GGG 116-114 in that case

Most rounds were close(in fact i'd say the 5th, 10th and 11th were the only rounds with a clear and obvious winner)

Will rewatch in a few weeks time though

Re-watched the first fight, and confirmed my score(114-114). The 4th, 8th and 10th were a lot closer than i remembered, and i switched the 1st and 3rd. 5th, 7th and 9th clear GGG rounds, 2nd, 6th and 12th clear Canelo rounds, with Canelo shading the 11th and GGG shading the 4th. The others could have gone either way(gave 1 and 8 to GGG and 3 and 10 to Canelo). Don't see how people saw GGG winning 8 rounds in that fight. Even the rounds he won clearly(except the 9th) it was down to lack of activity from Canelo than GGG doing any meaningful work. He did more damage in the 10th and 11th, two rounds i think he lost...

 

[No11]

10-10 rounds are generally very rare in boxing.

they shouldn't be, that's my point.
I believe when rounds are that close the chances are they will go to the guy who finishes stronger or dare I say the judges/ pundits favourite.
FWIW I had Golovkin 117-115, but I am no expert.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/9g88mo/spoilers_canelo_vs_ggg_media_scorecards

34 media members had GGG, 2 had Canelo with 15 having it a draw.

 

[pocco]

It was 5am here and I was knackered watching it. But I certainly felt like Canelo was winning it going into the halfway point. He was the aggressor, and was doing a good job at limiting GGG to the jab, whilst landing better power shots and combinations, also generally controlling the fight. GGG had some stronger rounds later on, as did Canelo. It was a tough one to score at times, a lot of very even rounds.

I felt as an overall fight it was very even, GGG looked uncomfortable on his stool like I hadn't seen before though. He agreed with Sanchez that he felt he was losing at one point later on and it looked like the body shots had took their toll. Showed a lot to come back strong nearer the end and managed to capitalize when Canelo looked tired. In turn Canelo dug deep in the 12th to go toe to toe and win the round imo. He made GGG miss a hell of a lot in that round iirc too.

I'm really going to have to watch it again though to be able to form a proper opinion on the scoring, they're just my thoughts from last night.

 

[Zen]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Boxing/comments/9g88mo/spoilers_canelo_vs_ggg_media_scorecards

34 media members had GGG, 2 had Canelo with 15 having it a draw.

This is exactly where I'm coming from - the cards are "fair" and 5/6 have been vaguely sensible. But sensible in if they were the singular odd one voting against the norm, to have 5/6 seeming leaning clearly towards Canelo(more so DLH) tells it's own story to me.

 

[No11]

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Watched the fight again last night and scored it pretty much the same as I did when watching live.

Canelo Golovkin
Round 1. 10 10
Round 2. 10 9
Round 3. 10 10
Round 4. 9 10
Round 5. 9 10
Round 6. 10 10
Round 7. 10 9
Round 8. 10 10
Round 9. 9 10
Round 10. 9 10
Round 11. 9 10
Round 12. 10 9

So 117-115 in favour of Golovkin.
Never understand why people didn't score some rounds as even.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

David Haye said on BBC the morning before the fight that 'Vegas' wanted Canelo to win. The judges understand that. Its business at the end of the day. Such is boxing.

 

[Murray3007]

I had it GGG by at least 2 rounds, thought it was closer then the last one that I had GGG by 4 rounds. knew at the start he would need a KO to win, was a great fight and credit to both men for taking a lot of those punches. on to the 3rd fight I suppose but feel apart from the moneyside for GGG cant see him possibly getting a decision after seeing how these 2 fights have gone.

 

[TMDaines]

Having only three judges, even in a perfect world where judges are unbiased and get a clear view of everything, is always going to be problematic. It's such a small sample size. If you take a random three cards from the media, Canelo has a chance of winning, if you take five or seven, his chance is much smaller. In all sports, fortune and variance are a big part of results, and ultimately if you want to be an undefeated boxer at the end of your career, you want to avoid close fights as it is likely some will go against you.

Watched the fight again last night and scored it pretty much the same as I did when watching live.

Canelo Golovkin
Round 1. 10 10
Round 2. 10 9
Round 3. 10 10
Round 4. 9 10
Round 5. 9 10
Round 6. 10 10
Round 7. 10 9
Round 8. 10 10
Round 9. 9 10
Round 10. 9 10
Round 11. 9 10
Round 12. 10 9

So 117-115 in favour of Golovkin.
Never understand why people didn't score some rounds as even.

Because judges are given directives not to have drawn rounds. I think most would agree, boxing scoring would be better for having more 10-10 rounds, but there's no point doing that as an armchair scorer, because it doesn't reflect reality.

 

[No11]

Because judges are given directives not to have drawn rounds. I think most would agree, boxing scoring would be better for having more 10-10 rounds, but there's no point doing that as an armchair scorer, because it doesn't reflect reality.

I understand what you are saying, in my opinion it is flawed.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, if judges don't give even rounds they more than likely will give the round to the one who finishes the round stronger or more likely the one the judge favours.
There were around 6-7 rounds that were close.

 

[Revan]

Just watched the match. Fantastic fight, and credit to Canelo. Saying that, there was absolutely no way that GGG didn't win at least 6 rounds. I had round 5 for Canelo (same as judges), and rounds 9 and 11 for me were either GGG or should have been 10-10. Giving all of them 10-9 to Canelo, for me it should have been a 6-6 draw. Giving those two to GGG, it should have been 8-4. There is no way that the fight was a 7-5 Canelo. No math that wasn't 'every close round goes to Canelo' gives him 7 rounds and the fight.

Same bullshit as Ward vs Kovalev I when the entire world scored it for Kovalev, but the judges gave it to Ward.

 

[Tommy]

The world has lost Enzo Calzaghe. Sad times... Remember all the times where the fans were singing "Super, Super Joe!" & Enzo was just the proudest looking fecker in the room.

What a boss.

 

[giorno]

I had round 5 for Canelo (same as judges)

We probably won't ever know what the judges saw, so i jave to ask you: how?????

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Just watched the match. Fantastic fight, and credit to Canelo. Saying that, there was absolutely no way that GGG didn't win at least 6 rounds. I had round 5 for Canelo (same as judges), and rounds 9 and 11 for me were either GGG or should have been 10-10. Giving all of them 10-9 to Canelo, for me it should have been a 6-6 draw. Giving those two to GGG, it should have been 8-4. There is no way that the fight was a 7-5 Canelo. No math that wasn't 'every close round goes to Canelo' gives him 7 rounds and the fight.

Same bullshit as Ward vs Kovalev I when the entire world scored it for Kovalev, but the judges gave it to Ward.

This decision was bad, very bad but Kovalev-Ward I was particularly egregious. That one really didn't have many close rounds and had a dominant start and finish by Kovalev and a knockdown. I had it 117-110 but a case for 116-111. I had GGG up by 116-112 with a case for 115-113 again very, very bad decision but what sticks me is that people kind of just accept it because "He's the superstar". This sucked because I knew exactly what would happen and how it would be scored.

 

[Raoul]

We probably won't ever know what the judges saw, so i jave to ask you: how?????

Probably down to the perceptual illusion that power punches are more impressive than volume jabs. If Canelo got a couple of combinations in then that will obviously appear like he's being the aggressor....even though GGG outstruck him in that round.

 

[GeorgieBoy]

Probably been mentioned before; and am prepared for this to get shot down, but...
Why can't these big boxing events have 9 experts/judges scoring the fight rather than 3? Reduces the risk of human error and human bias surely? I remember Joe Rogan mentioning something similar in his podcast with regards to the UFC.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

The world has lost Enzo Calzaghe. Sad times... Remember all the times where the fans were singing "Super, Super Joe!" & Enzo was just the proudest looking fecker in the room.

What a boss.

Yeah, very sad indeed. I loved Enzo. He just had an incredible energy and excitement and was as mad as a box of frogs. Going to watch some Calzaghe fights this week. A great father-son team up there with the most successful and unique in Boxing history.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Probably been mentioned before; and am prepared for this to get shot down, but...
Why can't these big boxing events have 9 experts/judges scoring the fight rather than 3? Reduces the risk of human error and human bias surely?

They'd have to pay more and also the problem isn't them scoring correctly it's more to do with clear bias and who "gets to" the judges. Fights are often scored how the promoter wants to. They could have 50 judges for Canelo fights and if it's close he's not losing.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I have only watched it the one time so far I think I had GGG winning 1, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 and Canelo winning 2, 3, 6, 9.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Just when you thought Billy Joe couldn’t be anymore of an irredeemable scumbag

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...aunts-drug-addict-offering-crack-sex-act.html

 

[Revan]

We probably won't ever know what the judges saw, so i jave to ask you: how?????

GGG landed more jabs and power shots, but I thought that Canelo's big shots were cleaner and did more harm.

 

[Kazi]

Probably down to the perceptual illusion that power punches are more impressive than volume jabs. If Canelo got a couple of combinations in then that will obviously appear like he's being the aggressor....even though GGG outstruck him in that round.

But power punches generally are more impressive than volume jabs, especially when they’re as crisp as Canelo’s.

 

[Utdstar01]

GGG landed more jabs and power shots, but I thought that Canelo's big shots were cleaner and did more harm.

Maybe to a boxer with a normal chin but GGG didn't seem affected at all so i don't see how you can measure this.

 

[Revan]

Maybe to a boxer with a normal chin but GGG didn't seem affected at all so i don't see how you can measure this.

A clean power punch is more impressive IMO than one or two small jabs, regardless of GGG having a granite chin.

Also, GGG got cut from Canelo in this fight, and received more punishment than ever on his career. For once he wasn't very comfortable on trading punches all night long.

 

[ivaldo]

Probably down to the perceptual illusion that power punches are more impressive than volume jabs. If Canelo got a couple of combinations in then that will obviously appear like he's being the aggressor....even though GGG outstruck him in that round.

They are more impressive aren't they? It's significantly harder to land a solid hook than it is a jab. The issue springs from how much weight you give a power punch in comparison to a jab.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Any idea what time the Groves-Smith World Boxing Super Series final is supposed to be? It's scheduled for Friday and is in Saudi Arabia. Any idea what time it's on?

 

[Zen]

Maybe to a boxer with a normal chin but GGG didn't seem affected at all so i don't see how you can measure this.

He was clearly effected by the body shots. That's how you can measure it. Both have great chins, but GGG never lit up Canelo like Canelo did in the first fight on GGG, but no question, fantastic chins.

 

[Thisistheone]

Aye, he's just thrilling to watch. Searched his name on this thread as I'm drunk and bored and I think we should have a Munguia hype-train:

@El General 1994
Inter Yer Nan
Pat Mustard
@Thisistheone

@Kazi thrown off as he only mentioned him to throw shade on Sadam Ali, and I'm hoping the main event tonight shows that he's on the wrong side of history.

Mate, I am on that train!

Munguia is absolutely terrific isn't he. Looks a monster at this weight & so exciting. You can see him causing a lot of destruction but also getting KO'd down the line, unless he changes his style. Beast.

 

[paulscholes18]

Just when you thought Billy Joe couldn’t be anymore of an irredeemable scumbag

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...aunts-drug-addict-offering-crack-sex-act.html

He is a complete wanker
He’s been charged with misconduct

 

[Thisistheone]

Have a look at this video and try not to get emotional watching Enzo's reaction to his son getting into the Boxing Hall of Fame:

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[El General 1994]

Any idea what time the Groves-Smith World Boxing Super Series final is supposed to be? It's scheduled for Friday and is in Saudi Arabia. Any idea what time it's on?

I'm pretty sure it's on Friday 28th Sep and UK will be 22:30...so LA time is 14:30 (perhaps?)

 

[sullydnl]

Just when you thought Billy Joe couldn’t be anymore of an irredeemable scumbag

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/s...aunts-drug-addict-offering-crack-sex-act.html

What a prick.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I'm pretty sure it's on Friday 28th Sep and UK will be 22:30...so LA time is 14:30 (perhaps?)

That would be good. I did check ITV Box Office site and they had it for 10am UK time which would be Friday afternoon in Saudi Arabia.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Have a look at this video and try not to get emotional watching Enzo's reaction to his son getting into the Boxing Hall of Fame:

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What a man. There's been very few Father/Son teams that were successful and they were hugely successful which is amazing considering Enzo had no prior experience. He also proved it wasn't just a fluke by having a son that was a great talent because he also trained a few other guys from being kids to world champions out of Newbridge, Wales of all places! That to me is the measure of a top trainer that can take a fighter from the school yard to the ring and not the Freddie Roach method of being a trainer that only takes on fully developed fighters.

From the documentaries and things you read about the Calzaghe's they really do come across as a really good family. Joe was a humble lad, quiet and laid back on the surface whereas Enzo was a firecracker. He would always squeeze that extra bit out of Joe whether it was in the corner and I'm sure especially in the gym. Like I said a brilliant team. Calzaghe IMO was the best British fighter in the post war era and Enzo had a massive role in that not to mention getting the likes of Cleverly, Macirenelli and Rees to championship victories.

Re: That video at the Hall of Fame. I really, really regret not going to that induction. As a longtime Boxing fan and keen historian it's been a bucket list item for me and I always said I wanted to make my first visit truly a special one. I was planning on that one due to two of my all-time favorites (Calzaghe and Trinidad) being inducted and I don't know why I didn't go. I'm told it was a great one. I'm not going to miss 2020 induction when my favorite fighter of all-time Juan Manuel Marquez will be inducted.

 

[El General 1994]

What a man. There's been very few Father/Son teams that were successful and they were hugely successful which is amazing considering Enzo had no prior experience. He also proved it wasn't just a fluke by having a son that was a great talent because he also trained a few other guys from being kids to world champions out of Newbridge, Wales of all places! That to me is the measure of a top trainer that can take a fighter from the school yard to the ring and not the Freddie Roach method of being a trainer that only takes on fully developed fighters.

From the documentaries and things you read about the Calzaghe's they really do come across as a really good family. Joe was a humble lad, quiet and laid back on the surface whereas Enzo was a firecracker. He would always squeeze that extra bit out of Joe whether it was in the corner and I'm sure especially in the gym. Like I said a brilliant team. Calzaghe IMO was the best British fighter in the post war era and Enzo had a massive role in that not to mention getting the likes of Cleverly, Macirenelli and Rees to championship victories.

Re: That video at the Hall of Fame. I really, really regret not going to that induction. As a longtime Boxing fan and keen historian it's been a bucket list item for me and I always said I wanted to make my first visit truly a special one. I was planning on that one due to two of my all-time favorites (Calzaghe and Trinidad) being inducted and I don't know why I didn't go. I'm told it was a great one. I'm not going to miss 2020 induction when my favorite fighter of all-time Juan Manuel Marquez will be inducted.

I'll never forget that HBO 24/7...

 

[Kazi]

Apparently Golovkin won 8-4...

He got his ass whooped again

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

It's never a good way to judge a fight going off their faces. Some fighters bruise/cut easier than others especially older fighters with higher cheek bones. I can give hundreds of examples of the worse looking guy winning the fight and many times by KO.