Deery
Dreary
- Joined
- May 21, 2019
- Messages
- 18,590
Didn’t man usually stick £20 on but lost on the football so never pulled the tigger!Great call man. You put money on it?
Didn’t man usually stick £20 on but lost on the football so never pulled the tigger!Great call man. You put money on it?
Fury has fought nothing but bums outside of Klitschko.Wilder yes, his resume is full of taxi drivers, but Fury? No way. Fury fought a much younger, fitter, better Vlad in his own backyard and schooled him, and did the same to Wilder when Joshua wasn't willing to travel.
Joshua has a reasonable resume, but not on the level of Fury's.
He turned professional in 2008 so it's not like he didn't have time to fight him. He won his title in his 33rd fight, and the decided to defend it against absolute nobody's.Not sure Wilder ever had time to fight Wlad to be honest. Wlad pretty much retired in 2015 after Fury beat him only coming back when Fury got the belts taken off him for the Joshua fight.
When exactly was Wilder supposed to be fighting him ?
You'll have to elaborate.
People are overlooking Usyk’s experience relative Joshua’s. When Joshua started boxing, Usyk was already at an Olympic Games.It's not embarrassing though, is it? If you go back through this thread, I've not been much impressed with Joshua as he's been stiff and robotic for a good deal of his career, but he's gone away and tried his best to modify his game and work on his flaws. His head movement is clearly much better than it used to be - people stating his head movement is poor aren't giving Usyk any credit for his pedigree and unorthodox striking as it's only a Fury who is not going to be there to be hit in the whole division.
He did what he could but lost to a better boxer, it's hardly a revelation.
The guy who beat him is a phenomenal boxer, though. And yes, the UK has been pretty shite at HW boxing for 100 years before lewis.Is he? Is that the best?
Because a better boxer just stepped up a weight to school him. If that's the "2nd or 3rd" best heavyweight we've ever had, then we are pretty lame. Because Joshua clearly isn't ever going to be any kind of great.
It's like Hatton's boy being given the win earlier despite clearly being bashed around the ring. You can't want people to watch this tripe for good money to keep it going, yet then get annoyed when they wonder why our great hope turns out to be a wet lettuce leaf.
If by adjustments you mean he actually threw his right hand a few times then maybe.1st sentence is true, but that was what the whole of Usyk's game was supposed to look like: no power, gassed with the extra weight, so much less movement and awkwardness, but the only thing that hasn't come up with him is the power.
I don't agree with the second sentence, though. Joshua hit Usyk a lot, people seem to have not registered that, h also made adjustments in the middle rounds that caught Usyk off guard and he threw a really skillful, unsuspecting feinted uppercut to the body that made Usyk wince.
There has clearly been work put in to modify his game and just because it didn't work against Usyk - who is a masterful boxer as we all know - it doesn't mean the work never occurred.
feck me you were calling him out for taking an easier fight earlier tonight, now you’ve seen just how good the Ukrainian is, you still can’t accept that he actually as we told you, took on a very hard fight, barring Fury the most difficult in the current division?
Much younger? It was a year and a half. And by all accounts VK was in great shape when he fought AJ.Wilder yes, his resume is full of taxi drivers, but Fury? No way. Fury fought a much younger, fitter, better Vlad in his own backyard and schooled him, and did the same to Wilder when Joshua wasn't willing to travel.
Joshua has a reasonable resume, but not on the level of Fury's.
One of those bums was a heavyweight title holder that Joshua wouldn't fight under the same circumstances (going to his place).Fury has fought nothing but bums outside of Klitschko.
Lennox Lewis literally had one of the best jabs in the history of HW boxing. There is no time in Joshua's career where he will ever come close to that level of perfection and it's impossible for him to think and fight in the manner Lewis did because of the gulf in the quality of the jab.If he stuck behind the jab and found the range like Lewis used to, it might have opened up for him. But he did neither that nor forced the advantage.
Whos been the best HW in the world before tonight?The guy who beat him is a phenomenal boxer, though. And yes, the UK has been pretty shite at HW boxing for 100 years before lewis.
He might never be great, but being maybe the best HW in the world (before tonight) is pretty dam good.
Wilder is a bum with a bomb, nothing more. Joshua has fought pretty much every good heavy weight out there. You're living in la la landOne of those bums was a heavyweight title holder that Joshua wouldn't fight under the same circumstances (going to his place).
Besides, you could say the same against Joshua, who managed to lose to one of those bums.
This is it. We can call AJ a lot of things, but he's always game. He'll fight anyone. There existed this pretense that AJ ducked Fury and Wilder, but we've heard from both camps who have acknowledged offers were made from AJ. As the champ, wtf was he having to chase contenders, and why were they turning down the biggest paydays of their career?!feck me you were calling him out for taking an easier fight earlier tonight, now you’ve seen just how good the Ukranian is, you still can’t accept that?
He takes on fights, always has, something too many boxers don’t.
"Oh what's that? You pull a bigger crowd, you have more belts, are considered a better fighter, and have a far better record? Well why don't you come fight me in this bingo hall with a 6k capacity I can't sell out? Oh whats that? I could fight in front of 60k fans and earn more than I've ever earned in my entire career? No thanks, I'll fight this other Brit, who at the time had no belts and a quarter of the following."One of those bums was a heavyweight title holder that Joshua wouldn't fight under the same circumstances (going to his place).
Besides, you could say the same against Joshua, who managed to lose to one of those bums.
I would have said Joshua over fury. I rated his resume higher.Whos been the best HW in the world before tonight?
Younger, still confident champion, who he toyed with and easily beat in his own backyard (which was famous for being stacked against challengers) compared to AJ getting seriously hurt and basically outlasting a much older man than himself.Much younger? It was a year and a half. And by all accounts VK was in great shape when he fought AJ.
But who else have you got? Because this is pretty much where it ends. There is absolutely no doubt that AJ has fought better pedigree.
Seriously?He's the 2nd hardest hitting HW on the planet. Maybe a grenade, then.
I actually agree with you, Joshua was negotiating from a position of power, but Wilder had no interest in travelling. Wilder's resume is a joke really. But it's still true that Fury did what Joshua wasn't willing to - going to Wilder to take his belt.He held more belts and brought a bigger crowd. Since when is the champ expected to chase these fights? It's so, so stupid.
OK, who hits harder than Joshua at HW, then? I've got wilder and I'm out.Seriously?
Ah, fair play. I misunderstood you. Probably clouded by the number of people I’ve seen on twitter saying that AJ is now shit. I’d agree, he’s not shown enough yet to go down in GOAT territory. He’d need to dominate a proper boxer, a fury/Usyk for that to even be considered now. But yes he’s clearly one of the top heavyweights still.I've just won good money on Usyk points.
What I mean by top boxer btw, is historically. It's all hype, all build up, and in that fight he is still being taught a lesson at his age. AJ is up there in the current crop, but you watch that fight back in the morning with a clear mind and tell me he's got it.
And 10+ years as an amateur, to boot. Being outboxed by Usyk is destiny for all but a handful of opponents he'll face and it's no great shame or embarrassment. He's been a P4P top 5-10 for years, so obviously, if he can take his game up or down a division with no fallout, those P4P qualities will come to the fore, which is what happened tonight. I don't see how it's a travesty or disgrace on Joshua's part.People are overlooking Usyk’s experience relative Joshua’s. When Joshua started boxing, Usyk was already at an Olympic Games.
Tonight should be all about applauding Usyk, not piling on Joshua.
No. Let's not side step. His 'better record,' let's have some names. Let's make this comparison. The most ardent Fury fans wouldn't even make this debate.Younger, still confident champion, who he toyed with and easily beat in his own backyard (which was famous for being stacked against challengers) compared to AJ getting seriously hurt and basically outlasting a much older man than himself.
Haha it might be where it ends for you, but Fury's resume involves fewer losses, more champions, and actually traveling to defeat people. Far better than boxing mostly punchbags in your own country.
That's an accurate description of Wilder, but he's still the champion, and that bomb could easily have flattened Joshua (given that Ruiz absolutely battered him the one time he left the UK).Wilder is a bum with a bomb, nothing more. Joshua has fought pretty much every good heavy weight out there. You're living in la la land
Fury had no belts, despite his disingenuous claims he was the linear champ. He either fought Joshua, who approached HIM, or he fights Harry Haymaker. He chose the latter. What possible reason do we have for Fury not accepting the fight at the time, which would've been his bigger ever purse, despite it (rightly) being weighted towards the guy with all the power? Fury likes to claim he doesn't fight for money, so why didn't he take the fight?I actually agree with you, Joshua was negotiating from a position of power, but Wilder had no interest in travelling. Wilder's resume is a joke really. But it's still true that Fury did what Joshua wasn't willing to - going to Wilder to take his belt.
I think you need to re-watch the bout. Usyk's face was marked up by consecutive hits, not a few clobbering shots. Usyk won the starting and ending rounds, but the middle rounds had a lot of exchanges that were not in Usyk's favour.If by adjustments you mean he actually threw his right hand a few times then maybe.
He was always gonna land a few times, with his range and just his huge physical advantages, but this was remarkably one sided. A lot as you put it is quite an exaggeration.
He turned professional in 2008 so it's not like he didn't have time to fight him. He won his title in his 33rd fight, and the decided to defend it against absolute nobody's.
Shelly Finkal got asked off a reporter after Wilder won the Wbc title whether he would unify against Wlad. He said no he's still a baby in boxing terms. He clearly ducked him.
It's not side stepping when you're trying to lay out rules that I'm not playing to.No. Let's not side step. His 'better record,' let's have some names. Let's make this comparison. The most ardent Fury fans wouldn't even make this debate.
Maybe I do, but I'd suggest you ought to as well, as you're giving Joshua a lot of credit for not a great deal. Almost seems like pity.I think you need to re-watch the bout. Usyk's face was marked up by consecutive hits, not a few clobbering shots. Usyk won the starting and ending rounds, but the middle rounds had a lot of exchanges that were not in Usyk's favour.
What I don't like about this post-fight, is the way Joshua is being forced into a box as if he's exactly the same out there as he was a couple of years back. I'm not a fan of Joshua's and the majority of my posts in here will make it clear what I've thought of him over the years, but I find it contrived to deny him acknowledgement for adjustments he's tried to make.
To be fair he was the lineal champ, and hold the Ring title. It is widely considered to be better than having any of the alphabetic titles.Fury had no belts, despite his disingenuous claims he was the linear champ. He either fought Joshua, who approached HIM, or he fights Harry Haymaker. He chose the latter. What possible reason do we have for Fury not accepting the fight at the time, which would've been his bigger ever purse, despite it (rightly) being weighted towards the guy with all the power? Fury likes to claim he doesn't fight for money, so why didn't he take the fight?
Are you trying to use Fury choosing the bigger purse as a stick to beat him in taking a fight under circumstances that AJ wouldn't? That's just bizarre.Fury had no belts, despite his disingenuous claims he was the linear champ. He either fought Joshua, who approached HIM, or he fights Harry Haymaker. He chose the latter. What possible reason do we have for Fury not accepting the fight at the time, which would've been his bigger ever purse, despite it (rightly) being weighted towards the guy with all the power? Fury likes to claim he doesn't fight for money, so why didn't he take the fight?
Because he had to. Fury was negotiating from a position of weakness in that fight, AJ a position of strength. It shouldn't be held against AJ that he didn't do that when he never should have to do that.I actually agree with you, Joshua was negotiating from a position of power, but Wilder had no interest in travelling. Wilder's resume is a joke really. But it's still true that Fury did what Joshua wasn't willing to - going to Wilder to take his belt.
It's not held against him, but looking coldly at their CVs it is a tougher fight than AJ has had, in enemy territory against the biggest puncher in the division.Because he had to. Fury was negotiating from a position of weakness in that fight, AJ a position of strength. It shouldn't be held against AJ that he didn't do that when he never should have to do that.
That's subjective. Personally, I think the Wlad AJ faced was far better. For the first time in forever he had trimmed down, actually seemed to have a strategy for his opponent, and had the hunger. He didn't respect Fury, and thought he was fighting just anther no mark challenger.It's not side stepping when you're trying to lay out rules that I'm not playing to.
The Vlad that Fury faced was way better than the Vlad that AJ faced, and is the best name on either resume. Wilder away, as champ, also sits above anyone else on AJ's resume.
Other than that it's a collection of tough bums, but AJ is the same really, with his top opponents being less impressive than Fury's.
To be clear, you'd say the first Wilder fight Fury took is tougher than any fight AJ has taken?It's not held against him, but looking coldly at their CVs it is a tougher fight than AJ has had, in enemy territory against the biggest puncher in the division.
When you're banned and Rings own rules regarding inactivity strips you of the belt, you aren't linear champ. If we ignore that, then I suppose Rocky Marciano is still linear champ!To be fair he was the lineal champ, and hold the Ring title. It is widely considered to be better than having any of the alphabetic titles.
He didn't choose the bigger purse? Thats the point! The same nonsense was said regarding Wilder, until Wilder finally admitted last year he took LESS money to fight. Fury held no belts to AJs 3 at the time. But it's still maintained AJ ducked Wilder, just as it is that AJ ducked Fury.Are you trying to use Fury choosing the bigger purse as a stick to beat him in taking a fight under circumstances that AJ wouldn't? That's just bizarre.
That will pay off only if he catches him within the first half of the fight, else he will gas out.Try and be more aggresive rather than trying to outbox