I think people (me included) thought that Aj would lose to old Wilder, that was probably Wilders worst performance to date. I mean, everyone knows how limited a fighter Wilder is but he was always good at making it a shootout and taking risks. Last night, he fought the last 30 seconds the way he usually fights and it was the only time Parker looked slightly uncomfortable.
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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Yeah, the ‘real’ Wilder turns every contest into a battle of heart, chin and power and backs himself every time with every bomb he throws and eventually catches his opponent that one time that puts them to sleep, but he looks like he’s lost his edge and appetite for that and is going through the motions now until he hangs them up. This isn’t the Wilder that most had no choice but to fear. He’s 38 now and looked every bit of it last night.
Prior to fighting Fury, yes. Not sure anyone thought that after the fight.They did a very good job making people believe Wallin is a good fighter. It wasn’t long ago everybody was calling him a nobody and a bum when he fought Fury
Agreed, his post fight interview was very telling. Wouldn't be surprised if he retires or takes 1 last big money fight (Ngannou ?)
I accept that Zhang is a credible and dangerous opponent not to be just casually dismissed, but I don't see the argument of Joshua running from Zhang. There is just nothing on the line in that fight - no belts, no big money, no prestige.
Had Zhang got a decision vs Hrgovic I still think Hearn would be talking up a fight for the IBF belt between AJ and Zhang.
The three time thing is big deal for Joshua and as you mentioned, it's part of his arc having lost to Usyk. Whether he faces Hrgovic or Zhang, it's a risky fight.
It's understandable that AJ lost his way between the Usyk and Franklin fights but the KO against Helenius flicked a switch in him and that continued into the Wallin fight. He's got the hunger back now. Unlike Helenius, I felt Wallin was a decent test, but it didn't turn out like that.
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Read on BBC Sport that Frank Warren and Eddie Hearn had never even met in real life, until November this year during the build up for the Saudi card. Shows how much of boxing is working in individual silos, trying to carve out your own profits.
Yes Zhang is now in the *who needs him" category. No worthwhile title and not enough money to be gained while carrying considerable risk.
Hrgovic and the IBF title will be on the RADAR I think.
Regarding Wilder, what are his best victories during his career, Stiverne I to win the WBC belt in 2015 and Ortiz I in 2018? Stiverne wasn’t exactly the most disciplined fighter around, didn’t exactly set the world alight in his previous fights leading up to their 2015 bout, and was 36 at the time. Ortiz while very talented, doesn’t have a particularly impressive set of victories on his career record either, was a few weeks away from his 39th birthday at the time of their 2018 bout, and caused Wilder quite a lot of problems.
Clearly his punching power from his right hand has been insane, but what an incredibly padded out record, especially from someone who held a world title belt for so long.
Clearly his punching power from his right hand has been insane, but what an incredibly padded out record, especially from someone who held a world title belt for so long.
Probably these 2 yeah, and Ortiz 2 I guess as another name on paper, although he was losing every round up until the KO. His resume as a champion is absolutely shocking - AJ had to beat Wlad and Parker for belts and defend against Ruiz, Povetkin, Pulev; any of those would easily be Wilder's best win (even though the latter 2 were past their best) and the majority probably would have beaten him. Crazy how far he's got with just power.
I don't think history will look back kindly at the Fury trilogy either, everyone knows the 1st was a robbery, got the piss beaten out of him in the 2nd and then other than 1 round of the fight he got dominated and KO'd cold in the 3rd.
Honestly one of the most one-sided trilogies in history when you look at it, 28 rounds completed between them and he probably won 4 of those at best, and 3 were just because of knockdowns.
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Agreed. I know he was due to fight Povetkin in 2016, before that was cancelled due to Povetkin's positive drugs test, but even had they fought and he won that, his record still wouldn't look particularly impressive.
How many opponents that Wilder beat were even better than someone like Takam (who Joshua beat in 2017)? I'd say a pretty small number. Elsewhere I've seen some Wilder fans deriding Joshua's win over a 41 year old Wlad, who was clearly still a better opponent than anyone that he beat (I'd definitely take a 41 year old Wlad over a 38-40 year old Ortiz).
I really think the criticism of AJ's resume is over the top at times. Wlad, Povektin, Ruiz, Parker, Pulev as title defences / unifications are all probably in the 6.5 - 7.5 / 10 range. Only Ortiz fits that criteria for Wilder, and A) at the lower end and B) he struggled in both fights.
Takam is probably the only one that falls short during that period for AJ and he was a replacement for Pulev on 2 weeks notice, and as you mentioned would STILL be Wilder's best win outside Ortiz probably (maybe Stiverne 1).
The rest of his title defences are trash on par with AJ's first couple against Molina & Breazeale (ironically both of whom are common opponents).
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Anyone see the Teddy Atlas interview with Lex Fridman? Fascinating interview talking about his days with Cus and Tyson. Cant help but respect the guy.
If you haven’t read it, his autobiography is very good.
Aside from the Tysons stuff, there’s some other good stories in there too.
Will do. Thanks for the suggestion
Should be interesting. If Joshua smokes him in a couple of rounds it will make Tyson Fury look like a right muppet, and will get people talking about AJ v Fury.
Correct. And my early prediction is Joshua runs through him in less than 3 rounds. Full credit to Francis, but Fury is Fury and full of up and down performances. AJ will take this fight seriously after what Francies did in the Fury fight.
intriguing fight now that Wilder is out of the picture. Zhang was being talked up a couple of days ago. Didn’t realise Joshua beat him at the Olympics in 2012.
amazing how it’s turned out for Francis
He's proved Dana wrong.
Crap fight.
Why? Maybe it’s just the mma fans but I’m also one curious to see how Francis does
Hearn in using Joshua as a cash cow shock.
Im intrigued because AJ retreats back into his shelf against a big puncher. So if Francis can land something big...
Because it's once again diverting boxing and the heavyweight division. Ngannou probably should have won the fight against Fury so what will happen this time if it's that close? It's just making it a bit of a farce as usual which is why people get so fecking annoyed at the division.
Yeah I get that. I think I gave up with the heavyweight division after Fury Ngannou. I just accept it’s a freakshow for entertainment now where the results don’t matter. And this has a bit of entertainment value
Hard fight to call:
Pretty certain N'Gannou wins an outright firefight so the onus is on Joshua to avoid that and fight as long and patiently as he can.
Joshua's head movement is always a bone of contention for me and leaves me to believe if one is to be 'unexpectedly' caught, it'll be him after not sorting the aforementioned out in time.
N'Gannou is faster and more explosive and the more natural mover as a fighter in general (for me), and I think if Joshua's infamous drops in concentration and stamina are at play, he'll get caught in later middle rounds.
If he can keep N'Gannou on the outside on the end of his jab then I think it'll be a rather comfortable points victory.
With the tendencies of both, I think N'Gannou is more likely to catch him either in a fire fight or through one of those momentary lapses than Joshua is to keep him out and control the vast majority of the fight.
- Is Joshua back-back to the fighter who believed in himself pre-Ruiz? The fighter who believed in his power and physical presence?
- How will N’Gannou approach a big hitter? He has been gun-shy in the past vs. Derrick Lewis (a notoriously powerful K.O artist in MMA).
- Leading on from the above: really big punchers rarely produce great fights against one another. Could be a whole night of pawing tentatively from behind the jab for the both of them.
Pretty certain N'Gannou wins an outright firefight so the onus is on Joshua to avoid that and fight as long and patiently as he can.
Joshua's head movement is always a bone of contention for me and leaves me to believe if one is to be 'unexpectedly' caught, it'll be him after not sorting the aforementioned out in time.
N'Gannou is faster and more explosive and the more natural mover as a fighter in general (for me), and I think if Joshua's infamous drops in concentration and stamina are at play, he'll get caught in later middle rounds.
If he can keep N'Gannou on the outside on the end of his jab then I think it'll be a rather comfortable points victory.
With the tendencies of both, I think N'Gannou is more likely to catch him either in a fire fight or through one of those momentary lapses than Joshua is to keep him out and control the vast majority of the fight.
Why would it be annoying if it’s close? Ngannou came out with so much credit against Fury and if he can produce something similar against AJ then surely he belongs in heavyweight boxing?
It’s definitely a money fight, but I can see the logic. Wilder lost, Fury is fighting Usyk, he’s definitely waiting for the IBF to become vacant before fighting Hrgovic. You could say Zhang, but I can understand striking while the iron is hot with Ngannou. It’s not a big issue if he’s going to fight three times a year now.
How anyone can defend Hearn or Joshua these days is beyond me.
Hearn really is the master of manipulation when it comes to the common idiot.
It won’t be close. If AJ prepares properly he will easily win. It’s definitely an interesting fight but mainly because Fury didn’t take the first one seriously, which creates a false sense of jeapordy for AJ.
Fury is the same to be fair but it's a shit show the heavyweight division I hope Usyk takes all the belts
Because if it's close they're not going to let Ngannou win like the Fury fight.
Hopefully Francis' performance vs Fury wasn't just a one off, as this will be very intriguing. The way he kept coming forward and showed decent hand speed makes me think he could do something here. AJ won't want to be fighting on the back foot, so he'll have to try to assert himself early to keep Ngannou humble.
I don’t think that’s especially new or a conspiracy because they don’t want the MMA guy to win. It’s always been a cliche that the champion will get the benefit of the doubt in close fights. Theres loads of examples throughout boxing where the champion has come away with a dodgy points win.
Who knows. Despite Fury looking crap, Ngannou had a bit of the Wilder fear factor about him.
It's better for the Saudi market that Fury and Joshua stay king.
Wilder losing really fecked for both of them. Now Joshua has to stay busy for the winner of Fury / Usyk
Was he coming forward? From what I remember he waited patiently for the whole fight and made Fury initiate the action, which is what caused Fury so much trouble. He was quite sharp when Fury did engage but he didn’t press the action for sure.
I'm not a Fury fan but despite his dire performance he won that fight. It was certainly not a robbery.
Who would you have liked Joshua to fight next? Hrgovic was the only other option at this stage. It's not like the guy has been fighting bums. It was meant to be Wilder, now.
If Fury beats Usyk, and Joshua wins then it's all lining up for the biggest british fight ever this summer. It's boxing, though, so it probably won't happen.
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Not that we didn’t already know, but they’re all at it now (fighters & promoters); most aren’t even denying it’s about maximising earnings now and the Saudi money isn’t going to help. I get it’s a short lived & dangerous career but don’t try and pretend you’re interested in meaningful fights.
Eddie Hearn openly laughed at the Ngannou fight and said Joshua wasn’t interested and now suddenly sees it as legit.
Someone like Wilder looks shot to pieces but why would he retire when they’ll keep chucking millions at him?
Then you’ve got Frank Warren defending the non-atmosphere in the middle-east; we’re not deaf, just saying ‘you weren’t there’ isn’t a defence.
Eddie Hearn openly laughed at the Ngannou fight and said Joshua wasn’t interested and now suddenly sees it as legit.
Someone like Wilder looks shot to pieces but why would he retire when they’ll keep chucking millions at him?
Then you’ve got Frank Warren defending the non-atmosphere in the middle-east; we’re not deaf, just saying ‘you weren’t there’ isn’t a defence.