The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
City is having it so easy due to the league being competetive of course. All the other teams have to play intense matcher against each other first and so once they play City they are too tired to give them a game. Thus they are making it far too easy for City being tired and also help them in europe. We did see City drop points against Everton early on when they had fresh legs. As september did come with most teams without anymore energy in the legs it favored City.
Reason why Serie A is so close near the top is the lack of good teams near the bottom. This allow the big teams to win all games too easily. In premier league this don't happen except when City plays and teams have turned tired.
Reason why Serie A is so close near the top is the lack of good teams near the bottom. This allow the big teams to win all games too easily. In premier league this don't happen except when City plays and teams have turned tired.
Ho-hum.
Well played.
On a more serious note, the rise of City proves exactly what many were saying in these debates a couple of years ago: An actual top side (like Bayern – the most common example used back then) would walk the PL. Which City seems to be doing (we all hope they’ll stumble spectacularly at some point but it seems unlikely).
You could add that both Conte’s Chelsea and José’s United are strong teams that don’t throw away many points: Neither of those two would have let Leicester win it, probably not the current (more experienced and overall better) version of Tottenham either.
So, the PL is certainly stronger. For a very simple reason: There are several very strong teams in it now, which wasn’t the case just a couple of seasons ago. The supposed competitiveness back then amounted to a fairly shabby contest between underwhelming teams that were even more underwhelming for all the money they spent.
Well played.
On a more serious note, the rise of City proves exactly what many were saying in these debates a couple of years ago: An actual top side (like Bayern – the most common example used back then) would walk the PL. Which City seems to be doing (we all hope they’ll stumble spectacularly at some point but it seems unlikely).
You could add that both Conte’s Chelsea and José’s United are strong teams that don’t throw away many points: Neither of those two would have let Leicester win it, probably not the current (more experienced and overall better) version of Tottenham either.
So, the PL is certainly stronger. For a very simple reason: There are several very strong teams in it now, which wasn’t the case just a couple of seasons ago. The supposed competitiveness back then amounted to a fairly shabby contest between underwhelming teams that were even more underwhelming for all the money they spent.
Few funny guys in here
Que ? I don't think a poll of one person is at all substantive. There are so many factors that come into consideration.
Or maybe it's the fact that Barca, Real, Sevilla, Juve etc. have, quite obviously, dropped off a level or two and that will naturally see other teams in the CL become far more competitive. The CL is a far more open competition this season.
If I am correct in assuming this, you berated me for ages in saying that the Champions League wasn’t a good barometer. Which I agreed with.
But now that they’re doing well in the Champions League you’re sort of ignoring your own arguments.
What has effectively happened is that the strength of the English teams has resulted in the higher clubs simply spending unprecedented money and resources to get above the standard of Premier League clubs.
Effectively the competitiveness of the league has forced an improvement in the juggernauts of the division. It has been impressive to watch.
Effectively the competitiveness of the league has forced an improvement in the juggernauts of the division. It has been impressive to watch.
By him? Absolutely spot on, you simply have no answer for him.
But Spurs plays in a one horse league, City is almost Champion before Christmas, Real Madrid is in fourth place in La Liga being the double Champions League winner, Spurs ok they had the same sort of result against them as Girona or Betis, you can't really believe Real Madrid was doing anything more than a competitive training for La Liga vs them, do you?
And do you know why is that?
You think it is the money or the foreign managers?
Absolutely not, everything is related with the uncompetitive nature of the Premier League, being a one horse race league, everybody this season is just training in the league, giving the platform to rest players compared with the competitive teams from Serie A or La Liga, where there is no time to rest players.
Just look at Napoli or Atletico if you don't believe in it, beside that this season Serie A will not have a winter break, adding more fuel to being a 5 horse race league, totally unpredictable, now you look at England and you just can see the Sheiks running with the League.
They disappeared because they changed from the Dutch version of total football to total crap, now that they got rid of the 21st century Dutch version mix between Johan and LVG, everything will return to their normal level, or do you believe they want to win in that joke BayernLiga where Saint bald Pep from Catalunya was resting there like a pensioner winning the league by 30 points?
No my friend, if only they were competing in the Etihad League they would just come out of the darkness, showing the bald cnut how to play with the false nine movement, all that fancy stuff from uber pressing to counterpressing is just a joke from those pretentious Germans, don't believe their own hype mate!
Now I want you to take this very seriously, don't get me wrong I will be the first here to congratulate here on your long term wisdom and vision, and don't see this as some sort of magical thinking or bias against the Emptyhad League, no, we all know only uncompetitive leagues can generate Champions League winners, have a good rest of season.
How someone who has posted this in the last year can then come into this thread and say “you know what, I’ve been right all along” is mental to me.You are deluded if you think Spurs would have a chance against Dortmund. So really something I'd expect from you
Do you still think the B side of Madrid would win the Premier League like you did earlier SCP?
It’s just that if I had been so wrong consistently I think I’d have some shame about it. I’ve tried to restrain bumping this thread as I don’t like bragging but to see others bump it. Wtf?
Christ did I ever said something like that, wow, it must have been a bad day at stiring up some controversy here, obviously can't remember that, smells like fake news, don't get me wrong, would never say something like that, it must have been a long, long, long time ago, sorry for that.
Are... you drunk?Christ did I ever said something like that, wow, it must have been a bad day at stiring up some controversy here, obviously can't remember that, smells like fake news, don't get me wrong, would never say something like that, it must have been a long, long, long time ago, sorry for that.
Of course not, its just the fact I don't remember when I posted that, but nothing contradictory with the nature of the thread.Pot kettle black.
I did not factor in the fact that PL would become a one-horse league, allowing Tottenham to not get tired ahead of CL games.
Only the Almighty could see that... Him and Saint Bald Pep from Catalunya ofc.
Not now, no.
Under proper manager, they have the depth of squad to make it happen - even this season.
Jose is writing this down in his notepad.
That's an insult to Atletico Madrid and Sevilla, comparing Burnley to Atletico Madrid is rubbish cos Burnley are not known internationally and have been in the league for two years, Atletico Madrid has been in top 3 sides constantly. Players from Spurs, Chelsea, Man United, Man City, Arsenal and Liverpool are more known than La Liga's top 6 sides (Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Sevilla, Valencia and Villarreal), lets exclude Barcelona, Real Madrid and Atletico Madrid that is equivalent to City, United and Chelsea in quality level of league, now do you think people could easily name players from Sevilla, Valencia and Villarreal more than Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs when EPL is most viewed league in world? Depend on who watch La Liga or EPL.
Competitive of league level between La Liga and Premier League spread 5 seasons from 2012-17, how many teams have finished in top 3 sides? La Liga has Real Madrid, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid finishing in top 3 places for 5 years, EPL has City, United, Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Leicester City finishing in top 3 places.
Quality of the league sides level, it's not surprising that Barcelona and Real Madrid have been stronger than EPL teams for 5 seasons since 2012 but comparing between La Liga and EPL for 3rd or 4th to bottom 20th placed, EPL is much stronger than La Liga in this which give EPL top sides bit of trouble, it also helped to strengthen City and United now.
Real Madrid has dropped a bit in quality level, not much about Atletico Madrid that had Chelsea and Roma in groups stages, in any other group stage Atletico Madrid would go through. Barcelona has dropped a bit in quality level since departure of Neymar
it's not the improvement of competitiveness has taken its toll on Barcelona or Real Madrid. Barcelona are going similar path as Manchester United since departure of Ronaldo but Barcelona will avoid the same path as ageing United in 2013 because they are going to spend a lot of money on new players before its too late, United didn't do that in 2009-2013, as a result, United gotten older and collapsed quickly. Real Madrid is getting older that has Ronaldo, Ramos, Modric, Navas in 30s and Bale, Benzema and Marcelo entering into 30s.
Well, Wumminater decided that LA Liga is shit cause he wasn't able to name players from some of their teams, so I guess that what Sarni is saying is just fair. If you followed the thread, Sarni is just using Wumminater's logic (or the lack of it) to dismantle his points. Just look at his posts in the last couple of pages, they are copies of Wumminater's posts, subject of name changes.
No, I am using facts!
Well you do have a good point here but none of these would have actually been valid under Wumminator's logic until this season. The only criteria was competitiveness and he used to slam La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A for being one team leagues where the top team could win 85% of games. Guess what - it's no longer problem when PL leader wins all of them.
Some of PL top teams have got better - especially City and United - and top 2 in Spain has definitely got much worse, so there's no longer the huge gap between the top two teams in both leagues. I think in terms of strength it's now very close, although Spanish teams play better technical football and even bottom half teams are usually nice to watch while PL has more tumescent teams playing physical football but also much superior marketing, pace and presentation so it evens out.
But back to my previous mode, how do you think should La Liga and Serie A react to the disadvantages they have because of extremely strong competition in their domestic league?
6th placed team in Spain has just 21 points. Everybody from top to bottom can still make Europe. It's not a good situation when teams know that because of extremely strong league they cannot compete in Europe anymore. Should they reduce the number of teams that play in the league? Maybe make travel distances shorter for league games? I am struggling for ideas but it's impossible to keep up when you have to play against world class competitive teams week in week out... One-horse leagues like PL have the comfort of not putting too much strain on their teams.
6th placed team in Spain has just 21 points. Everybody from top to bottom can still make Europe. It's not a good situation when teams know that because of extremely strong league they cannot compete in Europe anymore. Should they reduce the number of teams that play in the league? Maybe make travel distances shorter for league games? I am struggling for ideas but it's impossible to keep up when you have to play against world class competitive teams week in week out... One-horse leagues like PL have the comfort of not putting too much strain on their teams.
Quality!
And some people not getting it is funny like the fact that his only argument now is a underperforming Dortmund side who just sacked their manager because of that.
Balu wrote that already end of September/early October and it was ignored.
No one thought the PL won't get stronger with the money involved. But when the teams were clearly not performing you brought up some shitty arguments who don't play any role now when the teams are performing again.
Atletico and Sevilla are regular CL participants, no shit they can name more of their players.
Their English counterparts would be Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool.
Hell Utd and City until this season.
Im sure a Madrid fan could recognise those players rather than regular relegation candidates Burnley
Dammit @deafepl
Their English counterparts would be Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool.
Hell Utd and City until this season.
Im sure a Madrid fan could recognise those players rather than regular relegation candidates Burnley
Dammit @deafepl
Last season. Which tbf you weren't far off
I mean, you'd think last season (chelsea, 93 points, 30W, spurs 86 points, city 78, 'pool 76, arsenal 75) and this season(with two teams on pace to break 90 points and another on pace to break 80) would have put this argument to rest...
But Chelsea had the advantage of no CL last year, look at them now for reference.
City are an anomoly with their late winners, avoiding a Kompany red v Leicester, needing 2 defensive feck ups and Lukaku missing a sitter to beat Utd.
Im not saying they don't deserve it but everything has to go their way to simply avoid bad luck. They could have played the exact same way but dropped 5/6 points through no fault of their own, it wouldn't make them a worse side.
Anyway, England haven't had a back to back winner for 7/8 years now so this "It isn't really that competitive" is a ridiculous point tbh.
City are an anomoly with their late winners, avoiding a Kompany red v Leicester, needing 2 defensive feck ups and Lukaku missing a sitter to beat Utd.
Im not saying they don't deserve it but everything has to go their way to simply avoid bad luck. They could have played the exact same way but dropped 5/6 points through no fault of their own, it wouldn't make them a worse side.
Anyway, England haven't had a back to back winner for 7/8 years now so this "It isn't really that competitive" is a ridiculous point tbh.
I still don’t why people to a luck argument re: City. City have been better than their opponents in every game. So while they’ve a few late game heroics it’s not like they’ve had smash and grabs or flukey bounces where they done f all.
Even in the last derby, they weren’t at their best but they certainly were creating lots of dangerous chances. A different day and scoreline might have 5-1.
@AllezLesDiables
I can't agree with that, City had very few chances against us despite all of their possession
I can't agree with that, City had very few chances against us despite all of their possession
Competitiveness and strength aren't the same thing though. This thread is about the strength of the PL relative to the other top leagues, not about the level of competitiveness within the league
The fact that as soon as the top sides got their shit together we're seeing the PL turn into yet another iteration of the other top leagues is a pretty strong indictment on the relative strength of the league in these past few years
Ah. That explains a lot.
created 3 decent chances in the first half, Jesus after he left Rojo on his arse but it was a very poor finish, Sterling not long after where he shot at DDG and then the Sane shot which led to the corner and first goal, then had 2 really decent breaks which broke down just before you scored where we should have a least worked the keeper, in the second half with scoring early we didn't need to throw players forward as Jose was quite happy for United to just sit, we got a bit lucky that you didn't take your chance with Lakaku otherwise Jose would have said it was a perfect perfomance from United
Basically, Atletico Madrid and Sevilla are relegation candidates? No, they have been in top 4 for many years, better example would be Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs, As I mentioned previously that it depends on who watch EPL or La Liga but I'm using the fact that many people can recognise players from the EPL easily than its Spanish counterparts that include from 1st to 20th table placed because EPL is most viewed league in world.@Wumminator ehehe but the most potent logic over here is the following
1- we lost 2-1 to madrid but we could have equalised late in the game
2- we lost 2-1 to city without pogba and we could still have equalised late in the game
3- we can do everyone because they are not what they are used / told to be
you know what... this year you would lose 2-1 against both madrid and city 95 times out of 100 and still do not know why
1- we lost 2-1 to madrid but we could have equalised late in the game
2- we lost 2-1 to city without pogba and we could still have equalised late in the game
3- we can do everyone because they are not what they are used / told to be
you know what... this year you would lose 2-1 against both madrid and city 95 times out of 100 and still do not know why