Well he did change it, he put Welbeck and Giggs out wide but tucked in and tried in vain of hoping that Cleverley and Carrick could hold off Alonso, Modric and Ozil.
It's not like he just stood there and did nothing.
The team/Fergie bottled it after the red
- Thread starter samabachan
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It's not like he just stood there and did nothing.
We're probably not the best playing with 10 men, we've seen it before. I don't know what Fergie could have done. We didn't have magical solutions on the bench. I guess he wanted to see how the lads on the pitch handle things before deciding what change can make a difference and add something we need (a midfielder, for instance, we didn't even have on the bench). I've no problem with that.
Collapsed? Silly errors against Bayern, the late goal at the Allianz and the goal on the strike of HT at OT, not to mention Robben's superb goal. Not the same. We controlled this tie and got fecked, it was a massive shock to us ourselves and just imagine how the players felt.
Fergie did react, he moved Welbeck wide leaving one RVP up on his own. I think the team failed to react for a short period and within a few mins Madrid scored a cracking goal then one mistake and the game was over. We did wake up and could have pulled at least one back.
Real punished us when we were vunerable. We lost ourselves after that red card, and I don't blame us for that one bit. There's so much emotion involved, we aren't robots or machines.
We were clearly affected by it, and in quick time, Real were 1-2 up and from then, it was a mountain to climb. I'm not sure how Sir Alex could have changed it to try and cope.
OK, bottled it is maybe a bad choice of phrase, but I think the point is a very valid one. No way in hell Real would have conceded 2 in 10 minutes if the circumstances were reversed.
And yes, I do regret saying bottled it in the title, it's a little unfair and inflammatory at a bad time.
Madrid really showed their class against ten
I still agree with the OP though. It was never going to be easy, but the truth is our heads went for the ten minutes after the sending off. The leaders in the team needed to show some character, hold up the ball and stop the panic.
We got it together after the second but that's because there was far less pressure on the ball as Madrid sat back.
Fergie, I don't know. A panic sub might not have helped. But I was disappointed with how our senior players handled the reverse.
I still agree with the OP though. It was never going to be easy, but the truth is our heads went for the ten minutes after the sending off. The leaders in the team needed to show some character, hold up the ball and stop the panic.
We got it together after the second but that's because there was far less pressure on the ball as Madrid sat back.
Fergie, I don't know. A panic sub might not have helped. But I was disappointed with how our senior players handled the reverse.
I agree that we should have made subs immediately but the bench was a little attack minded.
Still fresh legs are fresh legs.
Alonso got away from us and started picking his passes.
Still fresh legs are fresh legs.
Alonso got away from us and started picking his passes.
Then change the fecking thing!
If not him, someone else would have scored. We allowed openings and chances left and right once we went down to ten, it is far worse than when other teams go down to ten and the opposition have to face a wall of 9 defenders who know what their task is and remain somewhat calm.
We sit back, but we do it without the same guile as some other top teams who have faced similar situations and look like deers in headlights.
It isn´t a coincidence, look at Bayern, same sort of collapse. Going down to ten is bad for most teams, but disastrous and a certain meltdown for us.
This.
Only Inter and Chelsea have come away with wins in big champions league matches. Both sat deep and had tremendous amount of luck along the way (which we did not). Maybe next time you can get your rabbit's foot out for us Kevin
Once someone has replied, only mods can change the title of threads
I dispute the "we bottled it" (what, exactly, does that mean?) thesis.
We were a man down, Real stepped up the pressure and scored two very good goals. The boys were heroes for keeping it down to 1-2. But for insane goalkeeping by Lopez -- Casillas, be wary -- we very well could have won the game despite being down to 10 men. By the way, De Gea almost made the sensational save on what was, in fact, a sensational shot by Modric. Most keepers wouldn't have gotten near the ball, but De Gea almost got a hand on it. Incredible.
The more I think about this thread, the more ridiculous it is. Best to shut this one down soon.
We were a man down, Real stepped up the pressure and scored two very good goals. The boys were heroes for keeping it down to 1-2. But for insane goalkeeping by Lopez -- Casillas, be wary -- we very well could have won the game despite being down to 10 men. By the way, De Gea almost made the sensational save on what was, in fact, a sensational shot by Modric. Most keepers wouldn't have gotten near the ball, but De Gea almost got a hand on it. Incredible.
The more I think about this thread, the more ridiculous it is. Best to shut this one down soon.
I can't fault anyone, they're very good footballers but emotionally they feel the same things we do. It was a massive momentum change not just mentally for us but for Madrid too, I can't foresee any scope for tactical changes other than perhaps dropping Rooney onto Alonso and taking off RVP, but that's a risk itself.
Collapsed. What happened at the Allianz isn´t of relevance here, I am talking about our performance when we go down to ten. We couldn´t play anymore and you saw it coming, danger created left and right.
We controlled it and would have certainly gone through with 11 yes. As we would have today.
You make it sound like Chelsea and Inter produced defensive masterclasses, the truth is Barcelona had chances and didn't take them. Real are ruthless, look at them vs. Barcelona last week.
Im sure if they went down to 10 men we would have torn them apart. better team has gone out
Once Welbeck was moved out wide, Alonso was freed up and it was game over. There is no chance we could have held on 10v11.
ffs, in these type of matches when it is nip and tuck, a sending off is sometimes all the decision needed to swing the momentum in one teams favor. We didn't bottle feck all, and I certainly don't place any blame on our manager or the players.
Well yeah, they feel the same things we do, but we're not world-class sportsmen and that's not just because of skill.
It's how you respond to those emotions that's a measure of your greatness in the end. We lost our heads, not all sides do.
Yeah, fair enough he didn't change it as soon as we were down to ten. But as soon as it became evident that Madrid were in control, I thought we needed some extra legs to do the chasing.
Real had chances even before their goals and didn't take them. And it took them 10 minutes!
Those 10 mintues after the goal our senior players should have handled that better no doubt.
But importantly we were fecked by luck even when we had chances.
But importantly we were fecked by luck even when we had chances.
Go home OP. You're drunk
The ref changed the game - should never have been red - mind you he chalked off what looked like a good goal for RM first half and a pen second. Over the last few years since lots of players get sent off teams have got very efficient at winning against 10, you don't have much chance.
Of course what happened at the Allianz influenced our response to going down to 10 men, the tie has to be put in context. Comparative to Bayern I really felt we had Real at arms length over the two ties, a bit shaky for 20 mins away but by and large I felt defensively we were really well organised. Messi missed a penalty last year, Modric and Robben scored crackers, it's fine margins.Collapsed. What happened at the Allianz isn´t of relevance here, I am talking about our performance when we go down to ten. We couldn´t play anymore and you saw it coming, danger created left and right.
We controlled it and would have certainly gone through with 11 yes. As we would have today.
And that clearly wasn't working. He waited until the game was as good as finished before making a personnel change.
I agree on the pen, but not that goal in the first half.
I'm not a rawkite by any means, but please ban samba gab from these forums. What an absolute retard.
You realise the implications a red has at this level? When a player has more instructions than a redcafe account creation. You absolute fecking deluded retard. Please stick to fifa. cnut.
You realise the implications a red has at this level? When a player has more instructions than a redcafe account creation. You absolute fecking deluded retard. Please stick to fifa. cnut.
That goal you refer to I'm fairly sure Higuain was offside but they never showed a replay, we were lucky on the pen.
I think it was more out of shock than anything else. We didn't know what hit us. Not the players, nor the fans or the manager. The red was totally out of the blue and we were left shell shocked.
I am sure if it was a deserved red, things would have been different. I don't think we can fault the players in this particular instant.
Those saves by Lopez came after we got ourselves together, which coincided with Real sitting back and reverting to counter-attacking football having put themselves in a commanding position. Yes our play was admirable after that.
The crucial period was immediately after the sending off.
De Gea nearly making a save, but not doing, is irrelevant.
While I was nervous at SAF's starting 11, once the game was played I have ZERO COMPLAINTS about how the players actually played. Very proud of the guys today.
I don't think there is much Fergie could've done. Fresher legs may have helped energy levels but when we went down to 10, Alonso had the space to pick passes which wasn't there before and it was only a matter of time before they scored.
Don't think Fergie could have done anything differently in the circumstances. I just wish we had taken the chances we had in the two legs.
Don't think Fergie could have done anything differently in the circumstances. I just wish we had taken the chances we had in the two legs.
I agree with you 500%
It's weird but we don't seem to do well with red cards. The bench need reacts to red card or when a player gets injured and he's off for a moment. That's tactical harakiri. After Nani was sent off, Giggs and Cleverley should have been hauled off for players who can hassle(Rooney and Anderson) and then defend!
Chelsea are not as decent as us but Chelsea would have seen that game out! They went 2 goals down last season at Nou Camp and they rallied round to stage a comeback. They made the first change around the 56th min. A game like tonight after the red card is not where we could afford passengers anymore.
The 1000th game charade seems to have cost us a quarter final ticket.
I can't really think of many United players who wouldn't have lost their minds a bit, Keane would have fecking killed the ref on the spot. I understand completely what you mean Plech, but I think it's harsh.
@Tommy_CTS: Strange sport where a keeper can miss judge and punch a player in the head without punishment, yet controlling ball in air is straight red.