There's a few studies which talk about antibodies lasting at least 6 months, some studies are looking at the option of one dose to top up for longer term immunity. Is there any other anti-vaccine rhetoric questions that you want answering? eg. Why is it safe? Why do they need to take it?
The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll
- Thread starter Badunk
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Sorry to hear. Not to bad for me on the Pfizer so far.
Surely you’ve been sick before? The side effects he’s talking about are like having a fairly mild flu. Without any of the coughing etc. And they’re over and done with in a day or two. Worst case it’s wrapped up in a blanket taking lempsip for a day. Clearly worth the risk when the alternate is a potentially deadly illness.
My side effects are minimal. I've had much worse from Flu vaccines. I'm currently drinking gin and tonics.
I admire and respect your honesty
For the record which one did you have, Oxford or Pfizer? In a local survey( my home town)!Most who had the Oxford experienced the most discomfort while the Pfizer had the least discomfort
Pfizer, but I've heard mixed. My Aunt Maeve had the Pfizer and was feeling sick for a week as did a cousin and a friend. I'm not to bad, my dad who's in his 80's had also had the Pfizer and had just a slightly sore arm as did another cousin., My mum had the AZ and it floored her for a week. while my brother also had it and was fine. I can keep going. I think its a case of it just depends but all the ones who had it worst its like getting a cold or mild flu symptoms. I'd rather that than being intubated.
Its interesting as I'm glad I got the Pfizer as after the second dose its more effective, but the AZ after the first dose is more effective than first from the Pzifer.
Fair enough mate, it is ultimately your decision.
As I said, the side effects are pretty much like having a bad cold/flu at worst and then it passes totally, which is obviously totally different to the worst or even relatively common effects Covid can and does have on people.
Regardless, I hope whatever decision you take you're happy with and you stay safe. And fair play for being so honest, I hope you can get help to cope with your anxiety too.
Cheers. I love that you have an Aunt Maeve too
Why would they need to "top up" for longer term immunity to Covid? They already know they can get Covid and their immune system can deal with it naturally.
You don't take medication unless the benefits outweigh the potential side effects. So if someone is greatly at risk of dying if they get Covid because their immune system will not be able to mount a successful immune response to it, it makes sense that they get a Covid vaccine. Would you agree?
One of my brothers had the AZ and was ill for a couple of days. My dad had AZ and was fine but perhaps this is his age and a weaker immune response?
Fair enough mate, you put me in my place.
I agree anxiety is not a nice thing to have, but overwhelming facts of not getting it (death, hospitalisation, long haul covid) are far, far worse things to be anxious about. I don't know how to handle anxiety issues but you sound a logical fellow so maybe balancing the two scenarios should help decide which way the scales tip.
Few reasons for a top up, there's limited data which shows how long antibodies are present in the body. A vaccine gives a level of certainty of the antibodies, and more importantly it is showing early signs that it reduces transmission, which is the more significant point in a pandemic.
Israel is claiming that Pfizer is pretty much effective after a single dose.
If it helps you feel any more comfortable, my parents and grandparents have all had a jab, 3 Pfizer and one AZ. They have all sorts of health problems but the worst side effect they had was 1 sore arm from AZ.
Impossible to make those sort of claims based on the evidence to hand. There is some evidence that they’re both reassuringly effective after the first dose but they both need two doses to be at their best.
Overall Pfizer seems like the more effective of the two but it’s really difficult to make accurate cross-trial comparisons.
To try and prevent them catching it at all when exposed in the future. Even if they only get a mild illness second time round they can spread the virus to other people, with potentially fatal results. The stronger their immune response the better the chance of preventing transmission.
Vaccines aren’t like normal medicines. The risk vs benefit analysis is at a population, as well as individual, level.
They would be spreading the virus to people who are either vaccinated or naturally immune.
If the plan is to blanket vaccinate everyone to protect those at risk, then why are no children being vaccinated?
The plan is to vaccinate children as well. Eventually. There are trials in kids underway already.
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Because currently there are very limited vaccine supplies not just globally but even within the MEDCs and it makes far more sense to vaccinate people who are likely to die/get serious illness/ more exposed to it than kids, who almost always get nothing more than a mild illness.
Not to mention that for obvious reasons, we tend to be slightly more careful with medications etc on kids and pregnant mothers, especially initially.
Trials are already happening with kids now.
I'm half Irish. She's a crazy old Leprechaun. Last of her gen though and I love her to bits.
All the jabs are effective after a single dose. All of them give similar protection as the flu jab after a single dose. Just the AZ is higher than the Pfizer is all.
It’s not though.
Actually just changed after todays data. Pfizer is far more effective after the first shot I just saw. I know never to get into an argument with you as you will never let it go and that's what we love about you. Yet. I just made that claim!
I do like an argument. But I know my limitations. I wouldn’t argue with you about film-making, for example. I know I’m right on this one though
EDIT: except for football. I argue about football constantly, despite zero qualifications. Mea culpa.
Maybe in the future, but not now.
Mr Hancock said: "This vaccine will not be used for children. It hasn't been tested on children. And the reason is that the likelihood of children having significant detriment if they catch Covid-19 is very, very low.
"So, this is an adult vaccine, for the adult population."
He is saying children do not need to be vaccinated because they are not at risk. Why does an adult who is not at risk need to be vaccinated?
I'm watching Wandavision now.
You should. I've learnt that film making is 95% bull shit.I do like an argument. But I know my limitations. I wouldn’t argue with you about film-making, for example. I know I’m right on this one though
Is there are limited vaccine supplies surely it makes more sense for them to be saved for the people who need them and not be wasted on those that don't need them? You say it makes more sense to vaccinate people who are likely to die and I agree. That's my point. Vast majority of people that get Covid DO NOT DIE. Some people don't even know they've had it.
As others have said, it's obviously up to you, and you've got personal circumstances that clearly make that a more complicated decision. I would just say, there's no deadline. If you don't feel comfortable now, you can keep thinking it over and do it later. There's more information on the safety and efficacy of these vaccines almost every day, so hopefully that will reassure you and help you reach a point where you are comfortable with getting vaccinated eventually.
Every adult is at risk.
Surely that is exactly what is happening? There's a little bit of variation from country but fundamentally, the priority groups are very similar. Over 80s and healthcare workers first, followed by gradually younger groups and people with healthcare conditions.
No country is currently vaccinating 20 year olds en masse, though I imagine we will sadly get to the point relatively soon where Western countries are doing exactly that while older people are dying in poorer countries from Covid.
In the months/ years to come, there won't be vaccine shortages anymore. Firstly because we'll have more vaccine candidates (there's at least 3 'Western' ones, with 2 more hopefully on the way relatively soon, 1 'Russian', 2 'Chinese') and all of those companies/ governments will be able to ramp up production even more so than they have already done.
Again, it is ultimately peoples' decision to do as they wish and everyone has to look at their own situation. Some vaccines don't work just on the individual though but on a public health, societal level.
I've also seen more than enough young people with no medical history in the last year on various forms of respiratory support at work to be slightly numb to the 'most people don't die' argument.
Getting my vaccine tomorrow at one hope it goes well. Been hearing people get sick after wards
Because we have evidence that vaccines are safe and effective in adults. That evidence is available right now. So adults should be vaccinated as soon as possible. All adults.
We don’t have that same evidence for children. But we will. Eventually. And when we do, we should vaccinate all children.
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Well then you still know 5% more about it than I do!
If we were talking about a situation where we faced a deadly disease, one that is lethal to anyone and everyone. Get it and you are dead type of virus. Then I would understand and agree that everyone should be vaccinated. We are not faced with that situation though. You believe the vaccines are safe, but what if they aren't? What if there are unforeseen side effects months or years down the road that people didn't anticipate? That would be a big problem if you have vaccinated every single person in the world, right? If you are not at risk from Covid and so don't get a Covid vaccine you are guaranteed to be not at risk from any of those unforeseen side effects from taking the Covid vaccine.
First of all, nobody is guaranteed “not at risk”. There’s been at least one documented case of someone getting a mild illness first time round then ending up on oxygen in hospital the second time he got infected. And there’s every chance that case is the tip of the iceberg, because the vast majority of mild or asymptomatic initial infections will be missed.
That’s beside the point, though. These vaccines have been rigorously tested and we have long term safety data from even the most novel class of vaccines (mRNA) before a single person got injected (we’ve clinical trial data on zika virus vaccines going back several years)
The safety profile gets better and better understood with each week that goes by too. All of the realistic risks in terms of rare, serious adverse events are likely to be uncovered relatively quickly and after tens (or at most hundreds) of thousands of people have been vaccinated. The health of every single person that’s been vaccinated is closely monitored and we have data on millions of people already. By the time we get round to offering this to the genuinely low risk population we can basically rule out any serious safety concerns.
And let’s not forget, we have no clue about the long term health implications of the virus. We know for a fact that HPV infection can cause cancer, decades down the road. No vaccine has ever been shown to cause cancer.
@Pogue Mahone / other Irish medical folk - from your perspective - are we way behind the rest of the EU for our rollout, or are it just being overexaggerated because this is the massive logistical challenge? And selfishly, as someone in their late twenties with no underlying issues, am I going to be waiting a season or two before it gets to me?
We’re actually well above the EU average. Battling it out for a Champions League place!
The first quarter of this year has been a clusterfeck in terms of the EU securing adequate supply. We should have loads in Q2 and be absolutely swimming in vaccines by Q3/Q4. I can almost guarantee you’ll get a needle in your arm at some point in 2021.