There’s a feeling of inevitability about Ole losing his job

Untd55

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Again, every season the managers get put into the same competition, so yes LVG and Jose had the same chances. Jose got us to 2 finals in 2.5 years. LVG got us to 1 final in 2 years?

So you are going to count the money that we havent paid for Diallo? You do realise the fee is built up of alot of add ons? Telles is £13m as well. So what about the players that were sold? That doesnt count because it doesnt sit well with your narrative right?

So its not £200m in 2 back to back transfer windows is it? He's actually spent £300m in 4 transfer windows. Jose got £340m in his first 4 windows.

Not saying Ole is any good but clearly seems to be an agenda towards Ole, when even your favourite Jose couldnt get us close to the CL or PL either.
Mourinho actually got to 3 finals. People forget about the FA Cup final against Chelsea in the second season.
 

romufc

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Jose and LVG never got to 3 semi finals in one season. The few times they got to such an advanced stage they made it count thats what I`m trying to pass on and if any of them got to 3 semis in one season they would have 100% made at least one count. You can forgive being knocked out of a competition if you never got to an advanced stage in or say one semi final but getting knocked out of THREE SEMIS???? There is simply NO EXCUSE for that
Ole has had 3 windows as permanent manager last summer, January and this summer 300m in 3 windows is not little money whichever way you look at it and Telles is 13m with add ons rising to 15m and yes add ons or not these are fees we will pay eventually maybe not all fo it but majority and don`t know why you plucked out 4 windows out of thin fecking air
Jose was hamstrung when he didn`t get us a CB and probably should have done better but he`s been miles better than Ole ever was if he was backed he`d 100% have us closer to City that will never happen with Ole
So you would forgive Ole for not getting far into a competition? If we get knocked out the group stages of CL is better than getting to the semi final?
Yes, Ole spent the money but he also got rid of players, go have a look at the net spend mate.

Yes I pick things of thin air but you saying he spent £200m in 2 back to back windows is facts?

Jose was hamstrung? Jose got 2 CB's in 2 windows and wanted a third in his third season? He spent £350m in 2 seasons. He got Bailly, Lindelof and you are here defending his defensive record, why did he need yet another CB to get close to City? Why would someone give a manager yet another CB when he's bought 2 previously? I thought he is meant to be a good defensive coach? Also don't forget he also got Alexis in January.

Also, let me put this right... in 17/18 Jose was 21 points of City, whereas we finished 15 points behind City last season. Last time I checked 15 is closer than 21. City are not the only team to catch, Liverpool are now.

Jose got backed for 2 seasons, third season he completely imploded.
 

RkkMan

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So you would forgive Ole for not getting far into a competition? If we get knocked out the group stages of CL is better than getting to the semi final?
Yes, Ole spent the money but he also got rid of players, go have a look at the net spend mate.

Yes I pick things of thin air but you saying he spent £200m in 2 back to back windows is facts?

Jose was hamstrung? Jose got 2 CB's in 2 windows and wanted a third in his third season? He spent £350m in 2 seasons. He got Bailly, Lindelof and you are here defending his defensive record, why did he need yet another CB to get close to City? Why would someone give a manager yet another CB when he's bought 2 previously? I thought he is meant to be a good defensive coach? Also don't forget he also got Alexis in January.

Also, let me put this right... in 17/18 Jose was 21 points of City, whereas we finished 15 points behind City last season. Last time I checked 15 is closer than 21. City are not the only team to catch, Liverpool are now.

Jose got backed for 2 seasons, third season he completely imploded.
In our current CL group I would genuinely not blame him much if we failed to get out of it PSG and Leipzig are simply at a level we aren`t. If it was a group like the one LVG had I`d bash him just like I`m bashing him now for losing 3 semis which for God knows what reason you don`t see as a bad thing. He got us there not once but thrice any top manager should be able to get to at least one final he didn`t and its NEVER happened in football history how can you defend that?
Umm Ole spent 150m last summer on Maguire, James and AWB and spent circa 50m on Bruno in the January window which literally comes after a summer window. You dont need to be Einstein to see thats 2 back to back windows he`s spent 200m I`m shocked you cant digest such a simple thing.
Yes Jose was hamstrung he may have gotten 2 CBs but he got us our highest point total and highest league finish since Sir Alex left and won us 2 trophies to that point thats better than Ole getting us 66 points only to spend 200m to get us.....66 points and 3 semi final losses. Jose`s results warranted backing to a certain level Ole`s hasn`t
And we finished 19 points behind City that season and that was a generational City team that got 100 points something no PL team has ever gotten no shame finishing 2nd to such a team which is much better than this current City team. Finishing 19 points behind one of the greatest ever PL teams in a season Utd over acheieved if anything whilst not an achievement is better than finishing 15 points to this current City team without adding to your point total from last season we`ve not improved under Ole to the extent we did under Jose
 

romufc

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In our current CL group I would genuinely not blame him much if we failed to get out of it PSG and Leipzig are simply at a level we aren`t. If it was a group like the one LVG had I`d bash him just like I`m bashing him now for losing 3 semis which for God knows what reason you don`t see as a bad thing. He got us there not once but thrice any top manager should be able to get to at least one final he didn`t and its NEVER happened in football history how can you defend that?
Umm Ole spent 150m last summer on Maguire, James and AWB and spent circa 50m on Bruno in the January window which literally comes after a summer window. You dont need to be Einstein to see thats 2 back to back windows he`s spent 200m I`m shocked you cant digest such a simple thing.
Yes Jose was hamstrung he may have gotten 2 CBs but he got us our highest point total and highest league finish since Sir Alex left and won us 2 trophies to that point thats better than Ole getting us 66 points only to spend 200m to get us.....66 points and 3 semi final losses. Jose`s results warranted backing to a certain level Ole`s hasn`t
And we finished 19 points behind City that season and that was a generational City team that got 100 points something no PL team has ever gotten no shame finishing 2nd to such a team which is much better than this current City team. Finishing 19 points behind one of the greatest ever PL teams in a season Utd over acheieved if anything whilst not an achievement is better than finishing 15 points to this current City team without adding to your point total from last season we`ve not improved under Ole to the extent we did under Jose

Maybe you need to check, saying he has spend £200m in two back to back windows means he spent £400m. But yeah discount the fact that we sold players as well right?

Okay, so now we are judging managers on points ? Jose's results warranted being backed? Looks like you missed the CL game against Sevilla and games where we had 1 shot on target? Those performances warranted backing is it?

So, we finished 15 points behind the same team last season? your point being?

Jose deserved to be sacked. How can you say a team that has 1 shot on target, got destroyed in the CL deserves more money than this United team?
 

soapythecat

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You don't watch our games maybe? As I said:
He has changed formations multiple times to beat Pep, draw against Klopp, beat Poch and Jose.
Some of his formations include 442 diamond vs Spurs, 352 vs City, 4231 vs City...
When you can beat big teams in big games playing different systems, against managers that are deemed to be better than you tactically, then it has to mean you are tactically competent yourself. It's pure logic.


James is a LW, when we get our RW, he will perform on the left side as he was intended to.
That's his position for Wales.

Defensive coaching? We conceded what? 36 goals against last season.
SAF best years were around 32? 33? And during a time when clubs were not scoring as much as they do now.
It has improved, so I am not sure what this is all about.
Individual mistakes in the first 3 games of this season do not erase the fact that over 38 games, we have conceded 36 goals only. That's 3rd best, after 33 and 35.

Attacking coaching? You're going to tell me you did not enjoy how we score some of our goals? We have examples of goals scored in various scenarios. Our only problem? The right side cannot develop the game as well as the left side when we are able to overlap. That's why we were looking for a RW in the first place. If you don't watch our games and our goals, why bother having an opinion based on... on what again? Is it trendy to follow what people say instead of watching games?

Motivation, you are seriously thinking Ole is not able to motivate properly players? Have you heard them? Every single one of our signings mentioned talking to the manager and buying into the vision. All of our players said that they believed in what Ole was doing. If anything, it's his biggest strength. We have a confidence issue and this will be a tough one to overcome but he has shown that he's able to motivate players for the big games.

In game management? That's never a 100% hit and I go back to the tactics, you don't beat better tacticians by changing tactics multiple times without being good yourself.

CV? Irrelevant at this point, Flick relegated a division 3 side, couldn't qualify a division 2 to the top league for 6 consecutive years, and yet is flying with Bayern. Pep had nothing except the B team, etc... The point above the tactics above show that Ole is able to compete with the best. We need to understand what needs to be happen so that players can execute (and this is different than the tactical battle, that we are obviously able to win) consistently and maybe that's fitness, maybe that's preseason, whatever... but it's certainly not what you seem to see and believe based on nothing.
I’d questions Ole’s ability to motivate a team. We look mentally weak against teams we would normally be expected to beat. I can’t recall is going on many winning runs either. He doesn’t come across as a very motivating person in interviews - must be a totally different person behind closed doors.
 

sp_107

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There is an article about our signings since Fergie Left

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12938156/man-utd-fergie-transfer-market/

In last 8 years, after spending close to Billion Pounds on Transfers we have Martial/Matic/Bruno listed as HIT signings shows/explain everything what went wrong at our club==Its not Ole===

I doubt even these 3 players who are a hit could walk into any other top teams like Real / Bayern
 

JJ12

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Yep - then there’ll be another false dawn.

hire. dawn. dip. fire. repeat.
 

Inigo Montoya

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There is an article about our signings since Fergie Left

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/12938156/man-utd-fergie-transfer-market/

In last 8 years, after spending close to Billion Pounds on Transfers we have Martial/Matic/Bruno listed as HIT signings shows/explain everything what went wrong at our club==Its not Ole===

I doubt even these 3 players who are a hit could walk into any other top teams like Real / Bayern
The point is they’d walk into BM which is a well oiled unit and perform like world class players
 

Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær

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The fact of the matter is: the majority of managerial appointments will be wrong. Yes, that includes Solskjaer. You cannot continue with managers that have no hope of turning it around, and that is the way it has to be. The club cannot be sentimental about sacking a manager or we will be stuck in a period of no success for a very long time. This could go on for five seasons we no sign of improvement. What is the point of that? It is a waste of everyone's time.
Have you missed the last seven years or something?

There's nothing wrong with sacking the manager but with each of the manager's since Fergie retired the club (i.e Woodward and the Board) have got it completely wrong. Lurching between complete managerial opposites that require huge outlays on new players to fit their "systems" and leaving us stuck with players no one else can afford or wants. So many of us have zero confidence that the next manager will be the right choice and we'll go right back to square one.

Managers can do well given time. Fergie proved that. This doesn't mean it has to be the same for Ole but the sacking merry go round can be more detrimental in the long term.
 

VP89

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Not necessarily
Yes. A coach who has established himself as a success at a number of clubs will tend to outperform someone who has achieved next to nothing in a major league (aside from being relegated with Cardiff of course).

We have tried to go for proven managers and they delivered silverware in FA Cup or Europa Cup, with better points totals in their 1 and 2nd years.

We are now in the second full season with Ole and will likely not outperform the above at the same stage.

Ole is just an experiment by the board, a punt in blind hope they can stumble across another Ferguson. The sooner this silly experiment comes to its conclusion the better
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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LVG = Sanchez of managers. Got him when he was on the decline.

Mourinho = Pogba of managers. Has his on and off days. When it's on its epic when it's off its disastrous. Overall both don't know how to work with players of low quality and will sulk when things don't go their way

Ole = Ighalo of managers. From weak leagues. Loves the club. Had a really good run that made everyone love him then we extended contract. Overall both are not good enough to be in the club.

Can we at least get the Sanchos or Harry Kane of managers. Managers that are not only performing but also fit the squad we have
 

pocco

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You don't watch our games maybe? As I said:
He has changed formations multiple times to beat Pep, draw against Klopp, beat Poch and Jose.
Some of his formations include 442 diamond vs Spurs, 352 vs City, 4231 vs City...
When you can beat big teams in big games playing different systems, against managers that are deemed to be better than you tactically, then it has to mean you are tactically competent yourself. It's pure logic.


James is a LW, when we get our RW, he will perform on the left side as he was intended to.
That's his position for Wales.

Defensive coaching? We conceded what? 36 goals against last season.
SAF best years were around 32? 33? And during a time when clubs were not scoring as much as they do now.
It has improved, so I am not sure what this is all about.
Individual mistakes in the first 3 games of this season do not erase the fact that over 38 games, we have conceded 36 goals only. That's 3rd best, after 33 and 35.

Attacking coaching? You're going to tell me you did not enjoy how we score some of our goals? We have examples of goals scored in various scenarios. Our only problem? The right side cannot develop the game as well as the left side when we are able to overlap. That's why we were looking for a RW in the first place. If you don't watch our games and our goals, why bother having an opinion based on... on what again? Is it trendy to follow what people say instead of watching games?

Motivation, you are seriously thinking Ole is not able to motivate properly players? Have you heard them? Every single one of our signings mentioned talking to the manager and buying into the vision. All of our players said that they believed in what Ole was doing. If anything, it's his biggest strength. We have a confidence issue and this will be a tough one to overcome but he has shown that he's able to motivate players for the big games.

In game management? That's never a 100% hit and I go back to the tactics, you don't beat better tacticians by changing tactics multiple times without being good yourself.

CV? Irrelevant at this point, Flick relegated a division 3 side, couldn't qualify a division 2 to the top league for 6 consecutive years, and yet is flying with Bayern. Pep had nothing except the B team, etc... The point above the tactics above show that Ole is able to compete with the best. We need to understand what needs to be happen so that players can execute (and this is different than the tactical battle, that we are obviously able to win) consistently and maybe that's fitness, maybe that's preseason, whatever... but it's certainly not what you seem to see and believe based on nothing.
I don't care about formations, that's dictated by availability of players. I look at the approach to the game, the movement of players and the positions they occupy. All these things give a far more clear view of the intention of the tactics. Beating big teams in one off games means nothing. By your logic, dropping points to "poorer" managers makes him a poor manager, no? At the end of the day he didn't even bring us within the same stratosphere as City and Liverpool in terms of points, the comparison is just not there between Ole and the top managers. There's no proof at all that he is or could be at their level.

I agree, James probably is a LW. He's still been poor there whenever he plays and anybody with eyes can see he's currently nowhere near the standard we expect. Not only that, but technically he is really far behind in aspects that are required of a winger for us. The problem for me is that he's so far away that I don't think he can be coached to the required level. I could find 18 year olds with better technique than him. Greenwood for a start. If you think differently then good for you, we'll see who is right.

Whilst on paper our defensive record looked good last season, we played a very negative way for the most part. The drop back and counter was relied on heavily, with Fred and McTominay shielding the defence in a lot of games. So yes, statistically we did look good, but we had to play a certain way to achieve that. Jose did something similar with a worse defence only a couple of years earlier for us.

Of course I enjoy the way we create goals if they're good. Every team scores good goals, but that doesn't mean they play great football. My overriding opinion is that, more often than not, we look laboured and one dimensional in attack. There are many aspects to our attacking play which don't work for me and you can obviously say we aren't a well drilled team in comparison with other teams in our league. Even teams lower down the table, who play a more aggressive and expansive style of football. Let's not forget, this is what many fans and people around the club were telling us we would get by sacking Jose and hiring Ole. Whilst I agree that we do need more depth on the right, Ole still has Greenwood to play there. Even though he is young, he is a top level talent that performs way beyond his years. So to make out he is completely hamstrung there is daft. Plus he has decided to play James there too. I don't know where you are getting the idea that I don't watch games from, especially when I'm not alone in my opinions. I'm certainly not following what others are saying, I said most of this before a lot of them did anyway as I could see the issues straight away under Ole. But perhaps you instead need to ask whether me and all these other people are right and you are not? For what it's worth, I have a season ticket and go home and away watching United. Do you? Don't come out with idiotic statements about whether I watch games, just because I don't share your beliefs, when not many others do either.

I heard the players say they were happy under Moyes, LVG and Jose. I don't buy into everything they say but judge them based on what I see on the pitch. For somebody that questions how much football I watch, you sure do base most of your opinions on statistics and soundbites. I don't buy into these constant fitness excuses from Solskjaer. This has been going on for a long time now and there is more to it than fitness. The players walk around the pitch half of the time or just look completely lost. Either A) Solskjaer is terrible at ensuring his players are fit, or B) He isn't motivating them to fight on the pitch. I read quotes from our players saying that they gave up when we got a player sent off vs Spurs. What is that all about? Did you ever see that happen under Ferguson, a true motivator? Something is 100% off in this aspect. Unless the players have just lowered their standards like some of our fans seemingly have and think this is acceptable. Whichever way you look at it, Solskjaer is responsible.

In game management is obviously a problem too. The late substitutions (Ighalo on for 2 minutes vs Sevilla) when clearly nothing is working, or watching a team continuously exploit an issue over and over and over before they finally score or nearly score. Case in point, against Brighton, they attacked a lot through central areas and down our left at times, pulling our defence across the pitch. Their left back was jogging into our area completely free on numerous occasions and they should have scored from the opportunities. Eventually he hit the post, after being picked out completely unopposed. A good manager would spot this and prevent it from happening. Another example from recently is how Spurs did the same again. Shaw had obviously been told to stick to Lamela and Jose saw this. He asked Lamela to drag Shaw inside and have runners exploit our left hand side. Carnage ensued. Where was the in game management there? The problem got solved eventually...when the ref blew for full time. So you might try and swerve this point, without any statistics to lean on, but the problem is clear and obvious. You need to start actually watching games.

Your point about his CV is absolutely laughable. By this stage I'm thinking you are a failed politician or Solskjaer's mum. I made that point as another example as to why he hasn't proven himself that he can be good enough to take us to winning trophies. It wasn't a point made in isolation, but it is a factual statement. You can't point to anything on his CV and make a case for him being good enough to beat Klopp, Guardiola etc to the PL trophy. The same in the CL. He has managed at such a low level it isn't even comparable. Winning a one off game doesn't mean he can compete with the best, tactically. It means his tactics, sit back and counter, work better against teams that attack ie City, Liverpool etc. That is exactly what that tactic is designed for. If he could compete with them tactically, then he would have the diversity to overcome more teams and finish with more than 66 points, closer to these teams at the end of the season. By your logic, Aston Villa have proven that they can compete to win the PL and CL because they smashed Liverpool, which is obviously a complete fantasy.
 
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r0663664

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Who want to bet if Spurs finish above or below us? My bet is above. No matter what you say about Jose, he has manage Real, Chelsea, Porto and Inter Milan. He has won champion league with 2 teams. Pep for how good he is has only won with Barcelona. What has Ole won? Players are underperforming yet their names are first on the team sheet. If buying players is the only way to win a championship. Ole has nothing to show he is a top drawer manager. Ole out!
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean

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Who want to bet if Spurs finish above or below us? My bet is above. No matter what you say about Jose, he has manage Real, Chelsea, Porto and Inter Milan. He has won champion league with 3 team. Pep for how good he is has only won with Barcelona. What has Ole won? Players are underperforming yet their names are first on the team sheet. If buying players is the only way to win a championship. Ole has nothing to show he is a top drawer manager. Ole out!
Shows he's overly reliant on individual quality
 

Glorio

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Problem is we`re not just "underperforming" and we`ve not been "unlucky" in every PL game we`ve been completely outplayed, completely bamboozled and completely dominated over. Thats not just a bad spell and with the fixtures we have coming up in our current state you cant blame anyone for being skeptical on how Ole will handle this phase of his management as I doubt he`ll go on the same run of good results he had last season
We have had runs where we've been outplayed as we've been this season in the past - even in Fergie days. And in those scenarios past, we weren't behind the whole league in terms of match fitness - people keep wanting to downplay this like it's not a thing. It is! You build fitness, work on systems, and generally get sharper (let's forget insufficient rest for the time being). If it weren't, folks wouldn't bother.


If we rocked up and started turning Premier League teams over left, right, and centre, with no pre-season, I'd be really surprised and frankly disappointed with the level of the league.

Regarding the upcoming fixtures, let's see how he handles it then. We seem to be judging before the fact, just as we did last season. He may sink or swim, but after 3 games, it just seems a bit OTT
 

r0663664

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I don't care about formations, that's dictated by availability of players. I look at the approach to the game, the movement of players and the positions they occupy. All these things give a far more clear view of the intention of the tactics. Beating big teams in one off games means nothing. By your logic, dropping point to "poorer" managers makes him a poor manager, no? At the end of the day didn't even bring us within the same stratosphere as City and Liverpool in terms of points, the comparison is just not there between Ole and the top managers. There's no proof at all that he is or could be at their level.

I agree, James probably is a LW. He's still been poor there whenever he plays and anybody with eyes can see he's currently nowhere near the standard we expect. Not only that, but technically he is really far behind in aspects that are required of a winger for us. The problem for me is that he's so far away that I don't think he can be coached to the required level. I could find 18 year olds with better technique than him. Greenwood for a start. If you think differently then good for you, we'll see who is right.

Whilst on paper our defensive record looked good last season, we played a very negative way for the most part. The drop back and counter was relied on heavily, with Fred and McTominay shielding the defence in a lot of games. So yes, statistically we did look good, but we had to play a certain way to achieve that. Jose did something similar with a worse defence only a couple of years earlier for us.

Of course I enjoy the way we create goals if they're good. Every team scores good goals, but it is often that doesn't mean they play great football. My overriding opinion is that, more often than not, we look laboured and one dimensional in attack. There are many aspects to our attacking play which don't work for me and you can obviously say we aren't a well drilled team in comparison with other teams in our league. Even teams lower down the table, who play a more aggressive and expansive style of football. Let's not forget, this is what many fans and people around the club were telling us we would get by sacking Jose and hiring Ole. Whilst I agree that we do need more depth on the right, Ole still has Greenwood to play there. Even though he is young, he is a top level talent that performs way beyond his years. So to make out he is completely hamstrung there is daft. Plus he has decided to play James there too. I don't know where you are getting the idea that I don't watch games from, especially when I'm not alone in my opinions. I'm certainly not following what others are saying, I said most of this before they did anyway as I could see the issues straight away under Ole. But perhaps you instead need to ask whether me and all these other people are right and you are not? For what it's worth, I have a season ticket and go home and away watching United. Do you? Don't come out with idiotic statements about whether I watch games, just because I don't share your beliefs, when not many others do either.

I heard the players say they were happy under Moyes, LVG and Jose. I don't buy into everything they say but judge them based on what I see on the pitch. For somebody that questions how much football I watch, you sure do base most of your opinions on statistics and soundbites. I don't buy into these constant fitness excuses from Solskjaer. This has been going on for a long time now and there is more to it than fitness. The players walk around the pitch half of the time or just look completely lost. Either A) Solskjaer is terrible at ensuring his players are fit, or B) He isn't motivating them to fight on the pitch. I read quotes from our players saying that they gave up when we got a player sent off. What is that all about? Did you ever see that happen under Ferguson, a true motivator? Something is 100% off in this aspect. Unless the players have just lowered their standards like some of our fans seemingly have and think this is acceptable. Whichever way you look at it, Solskjaer is responsible.

In game management is obviously a problem too. The late substitutions (Ighalo on for 2 minutes vs Sevilla) when clearly nothing is working, or watching a team continuously exploit an issue over and over and over before they finally score or nearly score. Case in point, against Brighton, they attacked a lot through central areas and down our left at times, pulling our defence across the pitch. Their left back was jogging into our area completely free on numerous occasions and they should have scored from the opportunities. Eventually he hit the post, after being picked out completely unopposed. A good manager would spot this and prevent it from happening. Another example from recently is how Spurs did the same again. Shaw had obviously been told to stick to Lamela and Jose saw this. He asked Lamela to drag Shaw inside and have runners exploit our left hand side. Carnage ensued. Where was the in game management there? The problem got solved eventually...when the ref blew for full time. So you might try and swerve this point, without any statistics to lean on, but the problem is clear and obvious. You need to start actually watching games.

Your point about his CV is absolutely laughable. By this stage I'm thinking you are a failed politician or Solskjaer's mum. I made that point as another example as to why he hasn't proven himself that he can be good enough to take us to winning trophies. It wasn't a point made in isolation, but it is a factual statement. You can't point to anything on his CV and make a case for him being good enough to beat Klopp, Guardiola etc to the PL trophy. The same in the CL. He has managed at such a low level it isn't even comparable. Winning a one off game doesn't mean he can compete with the best, tactically. It means his tactics, sit back and counter, work better against teams that attack ie City, Liverpool etc. That is exactly what that tactic is designed for. If he could compete with them tactically, then he would have the diversity to overcome more teams and finish with more than 66 points, closer to these teams at the end of the season. By your logic, Aston Villa have proven that they can compete to win the PL and CL because they smashed Liverpool, which is obviously a complete fantasy.
totally agree
 

dev1l

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Yes. A coach who has established himself as a success at a number of clubs will tend to outperform someone who has achieved next to nothing in a major league (aside from being relegated with Cardiff of course).

We have tried to go for proven managers and they delivered silverware in FA Cup or Europa Cup, with better points totals in their 1 and 2nd years.

We are now in the second full season with Ole and will likely not outperform the above at the same stage.

Ole is just an experiment by the board, a punt in blind hope they can stumble across another Ferguson. The sooner this silly experiment comes to its conclusion the better
There s no guarantee. There were many successful coaches which were not "proven "before - Pep at Barca, Del Bosque and Zidane at Real Madrid and Capello at Milan. I m certain there a lot more.
 

VP89

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There s no guarantee. There were many successful coaches which were not "proven "before - Pep at Barca, Del Bosque and Zidane at Real Madrid and Capello at Milan. I m certain there a lot more.
Not a single one of your examples were managing for 11 years without any proven success in major leagues. This experiment is actually as accurate as can be because it's tested on our club and the proof is in the pudding - Jose and LVG will likely go down as achieving more as managers of Manchester United. Unsurprisingly they were known as top managers and Ole was known to be more rookie in comparison.
 

pocco

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We have had runs where we've been outplayed as we've been this season in the past - even in Fergie days. And in those scenarios past, we weren't behind the whole league in terms of match fitness - people keep wanting to downplay this like it's not a thing. It is! You build fitness, work on systems, and generally get sharper (let's forget insufficient rest for the time being). If it weren't, folks wouldn't bother.


If we rocked up and started turning Premier League teams over left, right, and centre, with no pre-season, I'd be really surprised and frankly disappointed with the level of the league.

Regarding the upcoming fixtures, let's see how he handles it then. We seem to be judging before the fact, just as we did last season. He may sink or swim, but after 3 games, it just seems a bit OTT
What was the excuse for our terrible run at the beginning of last season?

We broke the record for our lowest points total going into boxing day in the PL era. Could we not improve fitness between August and 26th December? The fitness excuse is an absolute cop out.
 

JJ12

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Which then suggests that it’s pointless to fire him now.
It’s pointless doing anything until the boardroom has had a major shake up.

But they will make the move to look proactive and shift the blame on the manager - as they have done previously.
 

Will Singh

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Out of all the managers we’ve had I felt Jose was the only one who would stand his ground against the board, Ole is the least person I think who would stand he’s ground. So it’s obviously not the managers that’s at fault it’s Woody and co who don’t deliver what they promise. We’ve become a fecking joke ever since SAF left, taking on Moyes was the biggest mistake of the lot and it’s been a downward spiral ever since.
 

Glorio

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What was the excuse for our terrible run at the beginning of last season?

We broke the record for our lowest points total going into boxing day in the PL era. Could we not improve fitness between August and 26th December? The fitness excuse is an absolute cop out.
Apart from suffering injuries to most of our main creative/attacking options, no excuse - but then we got better after that, right?

The obsession with a management merry-go-round causes issues in itself. Folks on here seem to think we'll be flying once that happens. It's no guarantee, you do lose continuity - even if you have a DOF, and for me the biggest risk (yet one of the most understated) is player power.

If players know they can easily get a manager kicked out, no matter who we bring in, he'll have a massive problem getting a tune out of the players.

He may do initially, but once something goes wrong, e.g. 3 poor performances at the start of a season, he'll be at the mercy of the players, and I definitely don't believe a club should be run that way. You rid the manager of all authority
 

Andycoleno9

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Unless some miracle happens it is only matter of time. Morale is down, we are looking awful and our schedule is pretty tough.
I have a feeling that Newcastle game will be his Everton (Moyes) or Liverpool (Jose). After those games it was clear as a day that they lost their squads.
 

RashyForPM

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LVG = Sanchez of managers. Got him when he was on the decline.

Mourinho = Pogba of managers. Has his on and off days. When it's on its epic when it's off its disastrous. Overall both don't know how to work with players of low quality and will sulk when things don't go their way

Ole = Ighalo of managers. From weak leagues. Loves the club. Had a really good run that made everyone love him then we extended contract. Overall both are not good enough to be in the club.

Can we at least get the Sanchos or Harry Kane of managers. Managers that are not only performing but also fit the squad we have
You’re describing Nagelsmann (Sancho) and Pochettino (Kane) in terms of attainable targets. Couldn’t agree more. Great Pogba analogy for Mourinho btw.
 

Untd55

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Have you missed the last seven years or something?

There's nothing wrong with sacking the manager but with each of the manager's since Fergie retired the club (i.e Woodward and the Board) have got it completely wrong. Lurching between complete managerial opposites that require huge outlays on new players to fit their "systems" and leaving us stuck with players no one else can afford or wants. So many of us have zero confidence that the next manager will be the right choice and we'll go right back to square one.

Managers can do well given time. Fergie proved that. This doesn't mean it has to be the same for Ole but the sacking merry go round can be more detrimental in the long term.
The majority don't do well given time, though. It is not that common that a club chooses the 'right' manager, but you can increase the chance by refusing to be overly patient. We gave 9 seasons to the two managers prior to Ferguson, and the grand total from all of that patience was 2 FA Cups (both won by Atkinson (5 seasons); Sexton won nothing (4 seasons)). Would you say that was worth nine years?

Why do you think big clubs sack their manager so quickly? It is because patience can do a lot of damage and just hold the club back, delaying the inevitable. Nowadays, with all money in the game, it is even worse than it was back in the 80s - too much competition. The best clubs are ruthless with their managers when they don't think it is right:

- Bayern Munich sacked Ancelloti after a year and Kovac after a season. Both had won the Bundesliga. Why? Because they believed that the managers were not taking them where they wanted to go, and there was no point in persisting with it.

But there is a difference with Manutd. Even with an unsuitable manager, clubs like Bayern Munich, Barcelona, and Real Madrid can still win the league. It does not affect them so much because they have an enormous advantage over the other clubs in their leagues. They can just strip their biggest opposition of their best players (more so in the Bundesliga as Real are in La Liga) and so dominate their leagues, but that is not possible in the Premier League. The Premier League has too many financially strong clubs, so the manager is even more vital.

Manutd cannot afford to be patient and need to make the decision as soon as there is any inkling of doubt. It is the only way to be competitive in the Premier League. Do you think Abramovich will be patient with Lampard if he does not match his expectations? No chance. While they move on to their next, who could be a success, we could be sticking with a manager that is doing to bare minimum to keep their job (or maybe less so).
 

VivaRonaldo85

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If and I stress IF Ole’s transfer targets were Sancho, Grealish and Upemecano, then that says it all to me. No system, no style of play, no philosophy (my inner LVG). A strategy of trying to sign two of the best players in Europe and one of the best in the PL, then stick them into the first XI and hope they produce brilliance to win us games. That’s not a manager with a brilliantly coached system and buying players to fit into the system. It’s wanting to buy the shiniest toys off the top shelf and hoping they win you games by being so individually brilliant.

Maybe Telles and the two right wing kids will prove me wrong but......
 

AlexUTD

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Yes lets sack the coach again, that will disguise the fact that the owners are blood sucking parasites.

Ive given up hope of winning the league under this ownership. We had a golden opportunity to build on a positive season and get a world class talent while fixing holes in squad like RW and CB. Neither got fixed.

So i wont spend one more dime on merchandise or anything that the Glazers can get their hands on. Enough is enough. LUHG.
 

Foxbatt

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It doesn't matter who the owners are we still are not going to win unless we get a competent manager who is capable of winning trophies. Ole doesn't have that ability.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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If and I stress IF Ole’s transfer targets were Sancho, Grealish and Upemecano, then that says it all to me. No system, no style of play, no philosophy (my inner LVG). A strategy of trying to sign two of the best players in Europe and one of the best in the PL, then stick them into the first XI and hope they produce brilliance to win us games. That’s not a manager with a brilliantly coached system and buying players to fit into the system. It’s wanting to buy the shiniest toys off the top shelf and hoping they win you games by being so individually brilliant.

Maybe Telles and the two right wing kids will prove me wrong but......
Why do you say targeting Grealish Sancho and Upamecano means there's no system
 

Lebowski

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We didn't stand still. United fans don't know how spoilt we sound saying a summer with 5 players brought in and 80-100m spent was standing still because none of them contained a marquee name or fan target. I hope these players succeed so these individuals can turn around and label them an Ole transfer masterclass
I used the term stood still because we haven't strengthened our first eleven but all of our competitors have. You can debate whether signing backups and youth players is standing still or crawling forward, but when the teams around you have improved more than you have, the end result is the same - you fall behind.
 

VivaRonaldo85

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Why do you say targeting Grealish Sancho and Upamecano means there's no system
Because they are A* names which stand alone in the European leagues. Yes they are all individually fantastic footballers but football is all about the sum of its parts as a team, not always the best individual talents. Ok, we may treat ourselves to buy a superstar every few windows given who we are as a powerhouse football club, but your core must be players who understand and can apply the system you’re trying to deploy.

For example, Mane and firminho, signed by Klopp as players that fit his style of play. Unheralded individually (compared to the furore around Sancho and Grealish these days) but as part of a team project, they quickly became the heartbeat of the best team in the country and possibly Europe right now. And that really hurts to say that!

There’s a reason why Darren Fletcher was one of the most vital cogs of Sir Alex’s great side.
 

MikeKing

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Minimal funds, ffs. We spent €300m in the last two seasons. Calling that 'minimal' is absolutely ridiculous.
It has been minimal this window. The window before it was decent, but those signings should have happened the window before. We play catch up, don't forget the window before that one was horrendous too. When playing catchup you can't afford to not spend a lot without dropping in quality and slowly too.

We didn't replace Valencia and Young before Wan-Bissaka came. We relied on Jones and Rojo sometimes, past seasons think about that. They are still at this club. Mata was our first choice right winger. Rashford we didn't buy. Our only attacker that we've bought that has been a success was Martial. We're doing things very slowly, and my point is if your quality isn't there from before then you can't expect to improve quickly if you do slow business.

That is what this thread is about no? Minimal funds in the context of us improving further, playing catchup. We need to buy quality players for important positions, so that next year we can update other positions instead of playing procrastinate and push it to the next window. How do you not see it? We still don't have a right winger... At the end of this season we will still rely on Matic even if we do know that it's probable that his legs will be dead at that point.
 

Glorio

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Because they are A* names which stand alone in the European leagues. Yes they are all individually fantastic footballers but football is all about the sum of its parts as a team, not always the best individual talents. Ok, we may treat ourselves to buy a superstar every few windows given who we are as a powerhouse football club, but your core must be players who understand and can apply the system you’re trying to deploy.

For example, Mane and firminho, signed by Klopp as players that fit his style of play. Unheralded individually (compared to the furore around Sancho and Grealish these days) but as part of a team project, they quickly became the heartbeat of the best team in the country and possibly Europe right now. And that really hurts to say that!

There’s a reason why Darren Fletcher was one of the most vital cogs of Sir Alex’s great side.
Grealish is an A* name?
 

Greck

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I used the term stood still because we haven't strengthened our first eleven but all of our competitors have. You can debate whether signing backups and youth players is standing still or crawling forward, but when the teams around you have improved more than you have, the end result is the same - you fall behind.
Many of the clubs around us haven't even had their new signings establish themselves to conclude they've moved ahead of us. The dust has barely settled. At least wait till Cavani, Telles and Pellistri flop before saying we stood still relative to anyone. The premature writing off is what leads one to conclude people aren't keen on our latest acquisitions because of the absence of marquee names. Cavani for all we know right now could be starting by december. Same with Telles
 
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