It's tempting to do that, but habit keeps me watching.Well on that note we should just sack it off then.
It's tempting to do that, but habit keeps me watching.Well on that note we should just sack it off then.
I agree that some decisions seemed correct at the time, but you need to make a series of good decisions in a row.We've hired some top managers since Ferguson and backed them in the transfer market. LVG & Mourinho are giants of the managerial world, and Ole was an interim appointment that was given the job off of the back of his early success, something that at the time was met with almost unanimous agreement from the United fans.
I'm playing devils advocate here of course. There have been some mistakes to point to, but its easy to look back in hindsight and criticise. When you look at the most key decisions taken, they are not so bad.
Agreed - We are coming off of the back of a generation of supporters that only know success. Its not meant as an insult. Its just the way it is. We shouldn't expect success to be a given, especially given that we are now in the era of incredibly wealthy groups investing heavily in clubs while we enjoyed none of those advantages. We are not immune to mistakes being made and, when buying a single player can cost 10% of our annual revenue, we cannot simply buy our way of those mistakes any more.
Based on the decisions we've seen far, what are the chances of all three happening together at the same time under Woodward?Hire a competent DOF, hire a competent top manager in squad building and proper coaching, start a proper rebuilding job and we'll be back shortly.
Otherwise yes we're in for 10-15 years more of this crap.
It's not even hindsight but most of the key decisions made have been a disaster. Moyes was never going to succeed after SAF especially with the rebuilding job he would of had to do. He was only brought in because he was British with the club trying to stick to "traditional values."We've hired some top managers since Ferguson and backed them in the transfer market. LVG & Mourinho are giants of the managerial world, and Ole was an interim appointment that was given the job off of the back of his early success, something that at the time was met with almost unanimous agreement from the United fans.
I'm playing devils advocate here of course. There have been some mistakes to point to, but its easy to look back in hindsight and criticise. When you look at the most key decisions taken, they are not so bad.
Less than 0% unfortunately.Based on the decisions we've seen far, what are the chances of all three happening together at the same time under Woodward?
Thank You for highlighting everything that's on my mind. I absolutely agree and I also think we need a new style and a confident manager who thinks "at least in his mind" that he's the best in the business.There has been a consistency in how the United think-tank has functioned over the last few years since SAF.
The goal is top four and financial stability, and footballing styles don't really matter as long as these goals are met. And it won't matter if they aren't met.
We are willing to spend money but since there is no vision in recruitment at all, there is very little ROI. We keep buying expensive components for a machine without a blueprint for it, hoping the next recruit can put them all together. New managers continue to be bogged down by the errors of the previous one. There is no vision to hiring the managers as well along with the players, so it's a big jumbled mess. This means that even when we stumble across the right manager we won't be giving them the right tools for the job. That even if we get the right parts, we won't be able to assemble them into a functioning machine.
Ole will be sacked if we don't make top six. Even if we do have a turn in form after Pogba and McT are back, he isn't good enough to make top 4 next season with Klopp, Pep, Jose, Rogers and Lampard all being better managers at clubs who have a better vision and recruitment strategy.
There is a consistency to our team as well since SAF retired. Every year, despite spending a lot of money, we're less than the sum of our parts, and every year the parts keep getting worse.
I genuinely feel there is no real light at the end of the tunnel. We're in a Liverpool-esque decline, and it will take us a long time before we identify a Klopp, back his blueprint and give him the tools for he job.
I know you aren't in favour of keeping Ole. Would you trust Ed to make the correct managerial appointment to succeed him and then consistently back him in the market with good players?Disagree. There is light at the end of the tunnel. It'll just take some time and a few more mistakes to get there.
That's the danger of looking at specifics. Even if we won yesterday it wouldn't for me change the fundamental problem with our lack of proper football. Personally I focus on performances more than results and I don't see much in them to suggest any sort of future for Ole. And that's why we keep having these sort of results.It's all fine margins. Two stupidly thrown away leads in a week. If we hadn't we'd be 5th, 4 of top 4 and closing in on it with a great run of form.
Its just beyond frustrating at this stage. The villa draw was the last 5 years in a nutshell
Fine margins, could have been 0 points and 4 points off relegation. We deserve to be where we are and we won’t trouble that top 4.It's all fine margins. Two stupidly thrown away leads in a week. If we hadn't we'd be 5th, 4 of top 4 and closing in on it with a great run of form.
Its just beyond frustrating at this stage. The villa draw was the last 5 years in a nutshell
Whilst I agree with parts of your post, I feel it does need a positive retort since a lot of the posters so far have quite frankly made me cringe, a lot.There has been a consistency in how the United think-tank has functioned over the last few years since SAF.
The goal is top four and financial stability, and footballing styles don't really matter as long as these goals are met. And it won't matter if they aren't met.
We are willing to spend money but since there is no vision in recruitment at all, there is very little ROI. We keep buying expensive components for a machine without a blueprint for it, hoping the next recruit can put them all together. New managers continue to be bogged down by the errors of the previous one. There is no vision to hiring the managers as well along with the players, so it's a big jumbled mess. This means that even when we stumble across the right manager we won't be giving them the right tools for the job. That even if we get the right parts, we won't be able to assemble them into a functioning machine.
Ole will be sacked if we don't make top six. Even if we do have a turn in form after Pogba and McT are back, he isn't good enough to make top 4 next season with Klopp, Pep, Jose, Rogers and Lampard all being better managers at clubs who have a better vision and recruitment strategy.
There is a consistency to our team as well since SAF retired. Every year, despite spending a lot of money, we're less than the sum of our parts, and every year the parts keep getting worse.
I genuinely feel there is no real light at the end of the tunnel. We're in a Liverpool-esque decline, and it will take us a long time before we identify a Klopp, back his blueprint and give him the tools for he job.
It's not fine margins when this keeps happening for 3 months, 14 games in the league.It's all fine margins. Two stupidly thrown away leads in a week. If we hadn't we'd be 5th, 4 of top 4 and closing in on it with a great run of form.
Its just beyond frustrating at this stage. The villa draw was the last 5 years in a nutshell
That's the danger of looking at specifics. Even if we won yesterday it wouldn't for me change the fundamental problem with our lack of proper football. Personally I focus on performances more than results and I don't see much in them to suggest any sort of future for Ole. And that's why we keep having these sort of results.
It's the same in all sports. Bad teams find a way to lose games/drop points.
Agree with lots of both of you. I'm a big ole defender but the villa game really did dishearten me. Some people don't get it at all and they may be right but I don't believe any manager we get will give us success in the next 2 years. Purely as we've tried three times already I'm sti tempted by giving a manager some more time to implement his own team and change the mindset from player power.Fine margins, could have been 0 points and 4 points off relegation. We deserve to be where we are and we won’t trouble that top 4.
It’s the same idiots who’ve presided over failure still running the show, still making bad decisions and lacking ambition. They also now have their worst manager who is completely out of his depth.
Probably trying to work out whether they stick or twist but they will balls it up either way. This club will never compete at the top until there is fundamental change, there’s no sign of that so it’s years and years more of the same old shit. They think they have a plan but they don’t and are just making it worse by pretending they do and that it will all work out.
Well considering the last manager - who was doing a terrible job, all things considered - was doing better at this point last season, I'm fairly confident that an actual 'modern progressive manager' would be doing better, yes.Agree. I fully expect us to be no better under the next manager.
I agree there’s no success happening here for yearsAgree with lots of both of you. I'm a big ole defender but the villa game really did dishearten me. Some people don't get it at all and they may be right but I don't believe any manager we get will give us success in the next 2 years. Purely as we've tried three times already I'm sti tempted by giving a manager some more time to implement his own team and change the mindset from player power.
Its very tempting to go for pochettino now, but his 2019 has been really poor CL aside. What if he came and did same. Its square one again.
Barring a total implosion of course, I'd be still, just, tempted to give ole his three years. We don't know who will be available then football is ever changing. Could be that nagelsmann, Rodgers, feck even guardiola or some newly emerged fergie will be looking for a job then,should it not happen for solskjaer.
This is all very best case scenario of course but I really can't stomach another manager coming in and going through the same cycle all over again from scratch
Good post with a strong finish. This forum of late has been as bad if not worse than anything I've seen on RAWK in the past, and how we used to laugh at those guysWhilst I agree with parts of your post, I feel it does need a positive retort since a lot of the posters so far have quite frankly made me cringe, a lot.
You say our goal is top 4 and financial stability in a negative sense, but is that really a bad goal given the competitiveness of our league, and how important it is to have a financially successful club? With the money that has been pumped into the PL this century, it was only a matter of time before teams started flexing some financial muscle and making the league more interesting. Also, I don’t think we have ever had our start of season objectives officially announced, but I’d wager that the long term goals do involves trophies.
You say there is no vision to our recruitment, yet this past summer is the most clear it’s ever been. Young, British players that have massive potential, and one of them currently being tried out as our captain.
You say that when we “stumble across the right manager we won’t be giving them the right tools for the job” which is completely ignorant of one of the purposes of a manager, which is to get the most out of the squad he inherits, and improve them. I have no hesitation that there are several managers out there who would get more out of our current squad.
You say that Leicester and Chelsea have better recruitment visions than us which is plain false. Go and have a look at Chelsea signings over the last few seasons, they’ve had their fair share of flops and I don’t think Leicester have done anything that makes them any sort of strategic planning masterminds, rather they are benefitting from having a coach who knows how to get the best of the players at his disposal. That being said, their signing of Tielemans was one of the best pieces of business of any team in the league.
And this is a hard one to swallow, but you compare our decline to Liverpool and say there’s no light at the end of the tunnel, in the same sentence. The same Liverpool team who hold the champions league, are running away with the premier league, playing some of the best football in Europe and with no immediate sense that they are going to let up.
So my question to you is, how long is your tunnel? Because it’s pretty reasonable to expect us to get it right again one day, and to be honest there’s a part of me that thinks if we do take longer than expected to get back to the top, then at least we’ll be able to get rid of some overly negative fans for a while
No, but eventually we will get it right. It's taken longer than people expected (this'll be the 7th season). Maybe it'll eventually take 12 years, maybe 15. But I believe it'll come together. You do realise Liverpool when they were on 20 plus years at one point with little hope in sight?I know you aren't in favour of keeping Ole. Would you trust Ed to make the correct managerial appointment to succeed him and then consistently back him in the market with good players?
Would signing let's say haland and sancho between January and June make you more optimistic?I agree there’s no success happening here for years
With Ole though your not even starting from square one, he’s fallen back from that. He has same problems any manger will have with the board and recruitment, additionally he has his lack of ability, the failure of this season hanging over him and literally nothing to build on.
The outlook is bleak and it’s even bleaker with Ole, if he makes it through the season he’s a dead man walking going into next season.
And what if Poch came in and won us the league within 18 months? Will it happen? Probably not but with Ole in charge the answer would be definitely not.Agree with lots of both of you. I'm a big ole defender but the villa game really did dishearten me. Some people don't get it at all and they may be right but I don't believe any manager we get will give us success in the next 2 years. Purely as we've tried three times already I'm sti tempted by giving a manager some more time to implement his own team and change the mindset from player power.
Its very tempting to go for pochettino now, but his 2019 has been really poor CL aside. What if he came and did same. Its square one again.
Barring a total implosion of course, I'd be still, just, tempted to give ole his three years. We don't know who will be available then football is ever changing. Could be that nagelsmann, Rodgers, feck even guardiola or some newly emerged fergie will be looking for a job then,should it not happen for solskjaer.
This is all very best case scenario of course but I really can't stomach another manager coming in and going through the same cycle all over again from scratch
Of course but we’re not getting either of those players, another downside to persisting with Ole is there is now doubt over his position. That means second thoughts about whether or not to back him. Woodward has already said how tough it was to do three deals in one summer, imagine what it will be like if their not fully motivated.Would signing let's say haland and sancho between January and June make you more optimistic?
I really do think any manager would suffer with the players we have at the moment, given the injuries we've had. Yes we should have a better squad but that can't all be on ole
We shall see. What I will say if we're going down the regular sacking route is that I'll be showing no patience, I'm expecting results straight away or get the next guy in. This is what people seem to want.Well considering the last manager - who was doing a terrible job, all things considered - was doing better at this point last season, I'm fairly confident that an actual 'modern progressive manager' would be doing better, yes.
I think most would be happy if we looked like we were actively evolving our tactics with modern times and showing some form of improvements. The fact that we have actively regressed since the last manager results wise and have shown zero cohesion in terms of our tactics / style of play, is totally unforgivable for most fans.We shall see. What I will say if we're going down the regular sacking route is that I'll be showing no patience, I'm expecting results straight away or get the next guy in. This is what people seem to want.
Get ready to throw your toys out of the pram because he will be sacked. He has nothing positive to point to, no improvement and just to rub it in even his old team have got better and gone and won the league without him.We shall see. What I will say if we're going down the regular sacking route is that I'll be showing no patience, I'm expecting results straight away or get the next guy in. This is what people seem to want.
I still doubt he will be sacked. If he is then I won't be throwing any toys out of the pram, I'll just accept that's the way we're working and adjust my expectations of the new man accordingly. No semblance of any long term plan, just instant results or face the sack.Get ready to throw your toys out of the pram because he will be sacked. He has nothing positive to point to, no improvement and just to rub it in even his old team have got better and gone and won the league without him.
Woodward and co won’t take their share of the blame, they won’t change anything but they will sack Ole and move on.
I've come to a point where defeats don't dissapoint and the wins don't excite me as much as they once did. This is the first season in over 30 years I caught myself not celebrating a goal we've scored, No I don't want us to lose for some stupid reason like getting the manager sacked, or even worse, winning an argument online. The only thing that puts a smile on my face recently is watching our young academy player have a go at it, win or lose I enjoy watching them give it their all. I've become so disconnected from our first team and honestly couldn't care less if they stay or go. They have stopped caring and so have I... I guess.
I think this comes down to a lot of what you have written. Lack of ambition, no clear plan and the constant excuses and press-releases that think us fans are dumb has put a sour taste in my mouth and it will take more than a smiling club legend to take it away.