questioning and not agreeing with fairy tales is racist these days
This black woman’s anti-Muslim rant shows how deep British racism goes.
- Thread starter Nick 0208 Ldn
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You said being stupid shouldn't be a crime. She was arrested for inciting racial hatred.
Free speech has to have limits. Racially abusing someone on a bus is one of them.
Then it's not really free then. While the yanks have got their problems(And boy have they got some big ones)their laws of free speech are way a head of most(if all)of the world.
I agree and disagree. I think you should be able to say whatever you want, express your ideologies, etc, but I don't think that should extend to racially abusing someone in public. That's just criminal imo.
I do agree that the States are generally the best when it comes to free speech, though. They protect it better than any other country I know of.
Yeah it's a really difficult situation to where you draw the line especially when it comes to things like racism,xenophobia, subjects like holocaust denial or the most popular example about limiting speech - shouting fire in a crowed building that the only answer that works for everyone is to have no line what so ever.
The argument that clicked for me was that it's not just the right of the person to say whatever they want but it's also my right to hear whatever that person has to say.
The argument that clicked for me was that it's not just the right of the person to say whatever they want but it's also my right to hear whatever that person has to say.
She was threatening a pregnant lady that she was gonna kick her in her belly. Gotta be an assault/harassment crime there somewhere.
I think it's a balance between having the right to say whatever you want whilst not having the right to damage other peoples' rights in the process. It's always murky. As for holocaust denial, I don't actually think that should be a crime. It's absolutely nuts, but people should be able to believe what they want. But it depends on the context. Denying the holocaust outside of a Jewish temple would constitute racial hatred.
Chomsky defended a holocaust denier, not because he agreed with his outlandish beliefs, but because he thought he had the right to believe them without being prosecuted under French law.
Speech is never "free." It is always constrained by power and money, implicitly or explicitly. The Americans are great at projecting the formal appearance of freedom.
I think it's so murky because mostly these ideas come from a good place(Although the shouting fire in a crowed room argument was actually was used against Yiddish writers warning people against WW1)in principle it's a good idea to have laws against hate speech and laws against such things as Holocaust denial seems a completely good idea with good intentions, that we can never forget or distort this horrible evil event seems like a good thing but as you said(And I completely agree with you) it's wrong to jail people for simply believing in something, for saying a thought at out loud. If there's a group people who all bar one person agree that the Holocaust happened then surely that one person should be listen to and it should be also my right to hear that person, no matter how disgusting their views might be.
Really interesting discussion.
Also anyone wondering if this sounds familiar I've pretty much just rehashed(In a very lazy way) a Hitchens speech on this subject.
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Absolutely. There is racism in all race and religion. I don't care what anyone thinks about my race or religion in their minds, but i have a huge problem when someone abuses me openly in front of people like that women in the video. I suffered from this for years, turning the other cheek and walking away, but finally had to fight back to avoid getting humiliated all the time.
I have yet to find a middle ground with people like that. We can all talk about what is right and what is wrong, but when you are on the receiving end, then things are way different.
I'm sure they are. However, thump some racist wanker and they fall and hit their head and die it is you who ends up in prison for many years.
And shutting people up doesn't equate to changing their views. If anything it can entrench them.
Probably the worst thing about that video is that nobody intervened. Te driver did feck all when he should have called the cops or thrown her off at the very least as she was committing a criminal offense (I assume inciting racial hatred is a crime in the UK).
And shutting people up doesn't equate to changing their views. If anything it can entrench them.
Probably the worst thing about that video is that nobody intervened. Te driver did feck all when he should have called the cops or thrown her off at the very least as she was committing a criminal offense (I assume inciting racial hatred is a crime in the UK).
Have they found her yet? Surely charges will follow?
For some reason I was under the impression they were having a pre-existing squabble and the black lady was "just" trying to use her opponents' religion against them (should hope it's obvious that that doesn't make it okay).
Just read that the Arab women were peacefully minding their own business when she overheard them speaking Arabic to themselves and proceeded to lose her shit. That's really, really terrible.
Just read that the Arab women were peacefully minding their own business when she overheard them speaking Arabic to themselves and proceeded to lose her shit. That's really, really terrible.
Last I checked she was arrested.
The mans got balls Uzz, I would never tell a turkish man that I'm going to f**k his daughters...
I know some Turkish guys in Green Lanes and Haringey who want to find this guy and dish out some 'street justice'.
That type of response is par the course bro, either the black guy is oblivious to the strength of the words he used or the turkish guy did something really bad before the video started... Either way best to keep his head down now.I know some Turkish guys in Green Lanes and Haringey who want to find this guy and dish out some 'street justice'.
There really are no words for that.
2 shocking clips. Breathtaking nonsense from the first woman. But as the driver bothered to get out of his seat, and not just ignore it like most would, why on earth didn't he turf her off? Turf her off, or get the police if she refuses.
Slightly different in the second clip, as that guy is clearly more of a physical violence threat, and would probably have turned on anyone who dared say a word. But the first woman? Mouthy ignorance is all she had.
Slightly different in the second clip, as that guy is clearly more of a physical violence threat, and would probably have turned on anyone who dared say a word. But the first woman? Mouthy ignorance is all she had.
Father of the year, right there.
Why are so many people completely oblivious to their own racial prejudices when trying to highlight others?
It was a touching moment after he carefully brought the pram off the bus and made sure his baby was ok, he went and violently flung the zimmerframe off screen.
I dunno, "cnut" seems appropriate.
As wrong as this may sound, I believe this guy WILL have his head smashed in (in the not too distant future).
Yea, this guy will definitely have some form of retribution coming his way.
These people recording it to me are just as bad, because what are they doing to intervene? Nothing. They're recording it and uploading it. The fact is these are isolated incidents that have been created because of the media. Leave them as isolated incidents. These people are just spreading the wrong vibe. All they do is serve the media that creates the tension. Put down your phones people for the love of God.
It's not about drawing peoples attention. You cannot define a group based on two people disagreeing here and there. Knob heads.
It's not about drawing peoples attention. You cannot define a group based on two people disagreeing here and there. Knob heads.
It's a criminal offence. What other way will it be picked up?
Racism and bigotry have, unfortunately, existed at all times and in all cultures. Anyone who is surprised by black racism and bigotry hasn't been following events in Rwanda, Sudan, Central African Republic, etc.
Wow. All of this stuff is shocking to see, regardless of the perp's colour. Sadly, I feel I would be one of those staring at the floor avoiding attention if I ever witnessed such a scenario.
It's a difficult one, i'd like to think that i would raise an objection yet i've never had my resolve tested under those conditions. It cold come down to something as arbitrary as proximity, for if the person sitting right next to you is being verbally abused you are more likely to say something i should imagine.
Buses do seem to be a particularly vulnerable mod of transport though, what with the ease by which a perpetrator can do a runner.
I probably wouldn't say anything if the abuse was just verbal. Doing so could escalate it. I'd like to think I'd intervene if it ever got physical.
Me neither, thankfully. The unhinged nature of these people that display such voluble levels of hatred is the biggest deterrent I guess. That and a rightly or wrongly perceived linkage with knife crime in the case of black perpetrators.
Thankfully, 99% of my bus journeys are the two stops between Blythe Road and Hammersmith Library for the tube, or vice versa, so I can leap off if there is any unpleasantness. Do miss the Routemasters though.
All that video showed me is that Black people learned racism and discrimination from the best, white people.
I like to think people would have intervened if the guy wasn't so physically aggressive and so intimidating.