Frank Grimes
Full Member
Would not turn my nose up at Meunier at all. Always impressed me when I've seen him play.
Yeah, I recall at least one really standout performance at the last WC.I remember Belgium tanking someone and him scoring a hat trick from Rb and assisting some goals too
ImpressiveI doubt Young and Shaw have put in that many dangerous balls into the box in thier whole United careers.
Far more athletic. Much more skillful as well. Not the paciest but quick enough. Also a very strong player who uses his body well unlike Blind.He's meant to lack pace but has wonderful technical quality? Sounds like Blind
OK cheers. Seems like exactly what we need with Dalot looking 2 years away from being a starting right-backFar more athletic. Much more skillful as well. Not the paciest but quick enough. Also a very strong player who uses his body well unlike Blind.
Absolutely. It really is a no-brainer.OK cheers. Seems like exactly what we need with Dalot looking 2 years away from being a starting right-back
Chances created per 90 minutes this season.I doubt Young and Shaw have put in that many dangerous balls into the box in thier whole United careers.
This is why you can't rely on stats, most of Youngs crosses this season have been woefulChances created per 90 minutes this season.
Young: 1.71
Shaw: 1.29
Meunier: 0.97
A chance is registered if Young makes a 5 yard pass to Rashford 40 yards from the goalie who instantly takes a shot.Chances created per 90 minutes this season.
Young: 1.71
Shaw: 1.29
Meunier: 0.97
No it's not the same situation. It's a tactical decision, PSG switch between a back 4 and a back 3 during games that's why Kehrer is Tuchel's first choice while Alves who has been mainly used as a midfielder can support center midfield.He haven't signed a new contract and have only 1 year left. That is why he is not used as much. Pretty much same situation like Rabiot.
Interesting, this is why I don't like stats like this. How many assists has Meunier had?Chances created per 90 minutes this season.
Young: 1.71
Shaw: 1.29
Meunier: 0.97
Whoscored appear to have Young on 1.5 chances created per 90 minutes.Chances created per 90 minutes this season.
Young: 1.71
Shaw: 1.29
Meunier: 0.97
This season Young's crossing accuracy is 21%. Meunier is 19%. Shaw is 27%.This is why you can't rely on stats, most of Youngs crosses this season have been woeful
3 for Meunier. 2 for Young. Young plays more but in a harder league and in a worse team. PSG will score over 100 league goals this season, United probably won't get past 70Interesting, this is why I don't like stats like this. How many assists has Meunier had?
As a comparison in the league, according to Transfermarkt, Meunier has 3 goals and 4 assists in 1448 minutes, whilst Young has 2 goals and 2 assists in 2298 minutes. So, Meunier has almost a goal or assist every 207 minutes, whilst Young has a goal or assists every 575 minutes. Sure a fair bit of the differential between the two can be accounted for the difference in quality of the teams and leagues that the respective players play in. But Young is also on a lot of the free kicks and corners which should lead to clear chances. I think it's fair to say that Meunier is a fair bit better than Young when it comes to offensive contribution.3 for Meunier. 2 for Young. Young plays more but in a harder league and in a worse team. PSG will score over 100 league goals this season, United probably won't get past 70
Statistics databases are not too good. They don't attribute blame for goals conceded. A lot of United's recent goals are partly due to poor, or weak defending. Given we're comparing defensive positions this ought to be the first stat we should look at. Yet United's managers refuse to play full-backs at full-back!, and instead, insist on playing wingbacks and wingers (even when they're not helping with assists). Blame it on the manager. In his early career, Young played as a wingback and had a good assist record. He has a mediocre assist record now. Stop playing him.3 for Meunier. 2 for Young. Young plays more but in a harder league and in a worse team. PSG will score over 100 league goals this season, United probably won't get past 70
On squawka you can filter to remove chances from set pieces (which I should have done the first time, apologies) and Young's chance creation rate per 90 minutes is essentially identical to Meunier. 0.94 vs 0.97 in favour of Meunier. This negates playing time and set piece bias so all we are left with is the fact that Meunier plays in a weaker league and with better team mates and only creates at the same, not very high, rate that Young does. Shaw creates slightly more than both of them (1.07 per 90 minutes and I don't know about you but I agree with the general consensus that he is an excellent defender but not an especially strong attacker). As I posted above Meunier has a worse crossing accuracy than Young and worse rate of successful dribbling so taking all that into account I cannot agree with the idea that he is fundamentally a better attacker than Young. I think he gets a better rate of goals and assists purely because his team are so absurdly dominant in their league and those numbers would collapse to Young levels or worse if he was put into this current United team.As a comparison in the league, according to Transfermarkt, Meunier has 3 goals and 4 assists in 1448 minutes, whilst Young has 2 goals and 2 assists in 2298 minutes. So, Meunier has almost a goal or assist every 207 minutes, whilst Young has a goal or assists every 575 minutes. Sure a fair bit of the differential between the two can be accounted for the difference in quality of the teams and leagues that the respective players play in. But Young is also on a lot of the free kicks and corners which should lead to clear chances. I think it's fair to say that Meunier is a fair bit better than Young when it comes to offensive contribution.
I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the first sentence but you are preaching to the converted by telling me we need a better defender than Young at right back.Statistics databases are not too good. They don't attribute blame for goals conceded. A lot of United's recent goals are partly due to poor, or weak defending. Given we're comparing defensive positions this ought to be the first stat we should look at. Yet United's managers refuse to play full-backs at full-back!, and instead, insist on playing wingbacks and wingers (even when they're not helping with assists). Blame it on the manager. In his early career, Young played as a wingback and had a good assist record. He has a mediocre assist record now. Stop playing him.
Contracts expire:I'm not sure what the rest of your post has to do with the first sentence but you are preaching to the converted by telling me we need a better defender than Young at right back.
My number #1 choice for the position would be Wan-Bissaka who is no great shakes at all going forwards (plenty of potential to improve though) but an absolute monster of a defender.
They are using stats badly. Chances created is not only a flawed metric, but not accounting for minutes played makes chances created completely useless.Wait people are using stats to argue that Ashley Young is better going forward than Meunier?
Really? Ashley 'my favourite pass is an aimless hoof down the line' Young?
Not that I'm completely sold on Meunier, but that's taking stats to a new level.
Interesting post. From what I've seen, Meunier is a better offensive full back then he is defensively. In fact, I'd say he can be defensively suspect at times. But, the overlapping runs he makes is very impressive. This gives another attacking option on the right and opens up space for the right winger to cut inside. Meunier has been fairly average this season though. Young on the other hand is quite a defensive right back and doesn't get forward regularly enough to help out the right wing which is often left empty due to a lack of a proper right winger in the squad.On squawka you can filter to remove chances from set pieces (which I should have done the first time, apologies) and Young's chance creation rate per 90 minutes is essentially identical to Meunier. 0.94 vs 0.97 in favour of Meunier. This negates playing time and set piece bias so all we are left with is the fact that Meunier plays in a weaker league and with better team mates and only creates at the same, not very high, rate that Young does. Shaw creates slightly more than both of them (1.07 per 90 minutes and I don't know about you but I agree with the general consensus that he is an excellent defender but not an especially strong attacker). As I posted above Meunier has a worse crossing accuracy than Young and worse rate of successful dribbling so taking all that into account I cannot agree with the idea that he is fundamentally a better attacker than Young. I think he gets a better rate of goals and assists purely because his team are so absurdly dominant in their league and those numbers would collapse to Young levels or worse if he was put into this current United team.
No they don't, the stats show that the fundamentals of Meunier's attacking are either about as good as Young's or clearly worse and the logical reason for his higher goal and assist rate is because he's plays for a much stronger team than United in a weaker league.Meunier is better going forward than Young and the stats support it, just don't ask bad statisticians.
I am using stats to support what I see with my own eyes which is that Meunier, like Young, is not particularly good as an attacker, and the people who believe he will significantly improve United in that regard are clearly overrating him.Wait people are using stats to argue that Ashley Young is better going forward than Meunier?
Really? Ashley 'my favourite pass is an aimless hoof down the line' Young?
Not that I'm completely sold on Meunier, but that's taking stats to a new level.
Exactly, which is why we'll read stories about Woodward turning them both down because he had his heart set on Kimmich and Varane, neither of whom he'll come anywhere close to signing, despite offering to pay a quarter of a billion pounds for them.Signing Meunier and Alderweireld should plaster the cracks in our leaky defence for at least 2-3 seasons. De Gea will be glad.