Well maybe we have 200m to spend and spending 60-70m of that on a right back is questionable if he believes in Dalot's potential but wants the ready made Meunier (who is only 27 anyway) at only 25m. There are loads of reasons why. I'm sure we have our price limit for Wan Bissaka which is entirely reasonable. We shouldn't be taken to the cleaners for prices just because it's United, and anything over 40-45m is ridiculous for Wan Bissaka.
Thomas Meunier
- Thread starter RedMachine03
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I agree, 40-50M is fair for him. I can't help but feel we'll regret not signing him this summer as I think he'll build from this season and tear it up at another club (or at Palace). I hear City and Everton are interested as well. Dalot seems too raw for me, its no wonder Solskjaer is shopping around for someone dependable. I won't be mad if we sign Meunier.
Yeah, like I'm fine with either, just saying it's understandable if we don't want to pay that much (even if we can).
Everton always seem to have better full-backs than us.
Coleman & Baines were an excellent pair for so long, Meunier & Digne will be tasty too.
We have to sign Meunier imo (Wan Bissaka is everyone’s flavour of the month, good talent but hardly mesmerising going forward).
Coleman & Baines were an excellent pair for so long, Meunier & Digne will be tasty too.
We have to sign Meunier imo (Wan Bissaka is everyone’s flavour of the month, good talent but hardly mesmerising going forward).
AWB was as consistent in his defending all season as TAA was in his attacking so he's hardly flavor of the month. I remember first hearing about AWB when he took TFM's spot on the Crystal Palace team while he (Mensah) was on loan there. He's been making a name for himself since
Meunier and Digne at Everton while we'd have AWB and Shaw. For more than twice the price.
That would be a fecking embarrassment.
Wake up, people. It's 2019.
Our shit defence has more to do with having a shit team. A defensive full back would solve little.
Everything starts from the defence. A great goalkeeper gives confidence to defence, a solid defence + DM gives midfield the peace of mind it needs to focus on creating chances for the forwards and once you've got that then goals will pour in. Without it then you'll have the mess we've got now were wingers and attacking midfielders are judged more for their work rate and ability to play from deep then their creativity and assists.
The defence should be seen as a unit rather then as individual players, hence why I don't believe Koulibaly is the miracle maker many want him to be. Now if DDG leaves and De Ligt is signed then we need to stabilise the defence, especially since Matic is getting old. That won't happen with a nearly 28 year old fullback who can't defend. I would support the deal if we had DDG, Rio, Vidic and Carrick all in their prime. However this defence can't support Meunier
Man, the best fullbacks are either two-way or pretty good in attack, forget being a 'beast' defensively. TAA is one of the best fullbacks in attack out there and for that, he will always be rated ahead of AWB unless AWB somehow drastically improves his attacking game.
Kimmich, Robertson, Cancelo, Marcelo, Carvajal, Alba, Alaba are highly rated because of their attacking game moreso than their defensive game. Then there's the likes of Lahm, Cafu, Carlos, Evra, Alves. You rarely see anyone praising their defensive game moreso than their attacking game.
Attacking capabilities trumps everything provided the FB is no slouch at defending.
In the United system (currently at least - who knows what it will look like next season) attacking output from the right back is crucial. With Lingard and Mata as the nominal right sided attackers, it creates lots of space for the right back to get forward and it's crucial that they can produce quality in attacking areas.
Maybe Wan Bissaka has more potential but I like the option of Meunier because he is a genuine threat in attacking areas, he is experienced and unlikely to be overawed playing for United, he seems genuinely keen to join the club and United has talented youngsters of their own who can play right back. Dalot and Laird are mentioned a lot but there is also Lee O'Connor and Brandon Williams.
I also like Meunier's height which should improve the team from set pieces.
Most importantly though, Meunier's contract situation favours a move whereas Wan Bissaka has 3 years left on his deal. Next summer with 2 years left, he refuses to extend and United in the Champions League with their market savvy Director of Football leading negotiations it might be a far easier move to force through.
Maybe Wan Bissaka has more potential but I like the option of Meunier because he is a genuine threat in attacking areas, he is experienced and unlikely to be overawed playing for United, he seems genuinely keen to join the club and United has talented youngsters of their own who can play right back. Dalot and Laird are mentioned a lot but there is also Lee O'Connor and Brandon Williams.
I also like Meunier's height which should improve the team from set pieces.
Most importantly though, Meunier's contract situation favours a move whereas Wan Bissaka has 3 years left on his deal. Next summer with 2 years left, he refuses to extend and United in the Champions League with their market savvy Director of Football leading negotiations it might be a far easier move to force through.
That is some seriously archaic logic.
The issue is that everyone we have is shit once they get to the final third.
But yeah, let's add another one.
Ashley Young put eleventy billion crosses in this season and had three fecking assists to show for it. Meunier would better that in his first month for us. Maybe his first bloody week.
That kind of contradicts what you said in the first post. If the unit is good, with a commanding goalkeeper, proper cover from midfield, some cohesion and organization among the whole team, then you wouldn't even notice one fullback that isn't Wan-Bissaka because he will always be properly covered, and teams will also have to worry about his offensive threat.
We conceded below 30 with Young and Valencia as our FBs last season, but conceded double this season with one of the best defensive FBs in the league. It stems from having a completely worse and atrocious team.
If you fill up the team with defensive fullbacks because you want to have a defensive team, then the team will be consistently showed up for a clueless one when they have to attack. Attacking game trumps defensive game.
While also taking set pieces.
De Gea made difference last season with Young and Valencia as fullback paring, we were expected to concede more than 40 goals last season but De Gea made like 15+ expected goal saves. So there wasn't an improvement on defense.
And what were we expected to concede this season?
Whilst leaking twice the number of goals Young did with defensive errors....
Oh come on, he's 27! He's like super old!
This place!
But yeah, look at Ballon d or lists and look at players ages. Most are past 30. There's a reason for that. Also, we tend to be physically at our best around 27,so.
That's not even possible.
The problem is that the unit is far from good. DDG is probably leaving, Matic is on the wane and our CBs are not up for grabs. Under such circumstances we can't afford a full back who can't defend especially one whose best years are at his back.
I'm on board with you chief, these folks are basing their love of TM on a couple of games they have seen him play for PSG.
By the way, AWB's ball winning stats are crazy.
I thought we're talking about a fullback here.
So here's a thought. Instead of adding a fullback whose good in attacking but shit in defending then why not invest in defenders who can defend? That means that our midfielders and forwards can focus on their job then on bailing defenders out all the time. If that's not enough then we should add more quality players in midfield. We could afford doing so because we would need less workhorses in midfield to do the defenders job.
Of course it is. Not only is Meunier significantly worse defensively than both. He refers to be on the opposition half more often than not. He'll as a result get caught out twice as often.
Defensively he is godly. I also marvel how people think he is "shit going forward". Yet offensively he hardly compares horrendously to a purely attack oriented fella like Meunier. Yet he has years of improvement to make, whilst the Belgian is in his prime.
Dalot is best for attack-minded FB & AWB best all-round. http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...e190423&s=304,306,307,103,101,117,118,111,109
Dalot is already better than Young, and way better than any of them in terms of assists and chances created from open play. Young has his dead ball skills but so does, for example, Andreas Pereira.
Perhaps ‘flavour of the month’ was the wrong description - but the hype is a bit crazy atm. I was very impressed when I saw his performances, but I feel we need more attacking presence from RB though, all top teams have great weapons in full-back areas.
Meunier and later Dalot (if he develops into the player I hope) is a much better option in my eyes than AWB - especially for £60m!
If AWB was less than half of that then he’d be worth a punt. £60m? You’re having a laugh.
If we don’t sign Meunier for £25m we’ll regret it while he thrives at Everton - mark my words.
Little point buying Meunier. AWB would be good for £45m or less; but he's no £60m player. We bought Darmian but never played him much because he wasn't attacking enough. If we had a #7 who can and does defend, then I'm happy buying no new right back. AWB is a good option for team who defend most of the game. It's not Ole's plan. Keep Young for another year. Play Dalot more. Dalot will improve his defense. This year: focus more on getting #7 with pace, attack and defensive skills. No more false #7, or whatever that was.
The issue here is the claim AWB is garbage in attack. The statistics do not support that. I'd rather have Dalot compete with a fullback whose strength is defending, is OK in attack but can still improve going forward, than with an older version of his current self like Meunier. Whose only supposed improvement on Dalot would be consistency in attacking out put. Which even the statistics don't bear outDalot is best for attack-minded FB & AWB best all-round. http://stats.squawka.com/en/compari...e190423&s=304,306,307,103,101,117,118,111,109
Dalot is already better than Young, and way better than any of them in terms of assists and chances created from open play. Young has his dead ball skills but so does, for example, Andreas Pereira.
Irrespective of your thoughts on Meunier, Young's offensive output is incredibly poor for a former forward.
We all know that. It makes no sense however to replace him with some one who is by far a worse defender than him just because their attacking out put is better. That would not improve us at all.
To me it makes more sense to have AWB and Dalot competing for the role. With Dalot for game in which we need to be on the front foot and AWB for games in which we need to be sounder defensively. As they develop eventually they'd be little difference between the two and we'd have; our selves two of the best right backs in the world.
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Again, he couldn't possibly be a worse defender. I don't care what the stats say.
This isn't 1980 and we're not discussing Brentford here.
This thread is fecking crazy.
If you could pick any right back in the world, of course you wouldn't pick Meunier. But, United haven't got unlimited funds and have some major surgery to do in the squad in other areas. They also have some very talented young right backs.
If United spend £70m on Wan Bissaka and he starts poorly, the pressure on him will be immense. If it takes him 12 months to settle at the club (which is far from unlikely for a young player with a big price tag), their options for big games are another kid in Dalot and Young.
You need to be able to blood young players carefully and accept that their form will fluctuate. Having kids as the only option for one position is LVG level nonsensical squad planning. An experienced international who has played for a big club already would be extremely useful.
Posted this in the Wan Bissaka thread, but as an example the on the ball play in the below match isn't anywhere close to being good enough.
I never thought I will say that but he would be even worse than Young in terms of playing with the ball at his feet.
Yeah that is not very impressive
There is little doubt in my mind that Meunier is the better footballer overall. AWB may be more active defensively.
Agree, quotes of £70 million for Wan Bissaka is totally ridiculous, (could be just media talk, but realistically I think Palace with sell Zaha, but try to hang on to Wan Bissaka, therefore no need to sell) up to £50 million maybe, but not all up front, say £25 million to £30 million up front and all the rest for appearances, international appearances and so on. Meunier I'm not convinced about, but even so would be a vast improvement on Young.
If this is what he plays like normally, then it's a big no for me. The attacking and ball playing instinct is something which I feel comes naturally to a player. So I don't think he'll improve too much in that aspect. We should go for some of the other options like Muenier, Cancelo or Mario Fernandes.