Thomas Tuchel sacked at Christmas

Jim Beam

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Well there aren't many top managers around, not anymore. Clubs have to choose between the same old tired faces (Ancelotti, Mourinho etc) or the random punt they stuck out of their arseholes (Arteta, Ole, Lampard etc).
Ancelotti (although I also think he is well past it) maybe as he is a great man manager and quite good in cup competitions. He would give that team a freedom to attack also.
Mourinho and 90 minutes of bunker in most knockout ties wouldn't go down well with that team.

You don't need to go for Arteta's of this world. Poch is a solid choice, same would be with Allegri or taking a punt with a new upcoming group in Nagelsmann, Rose, Ten Hag.
 

devilish

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Ancelotti (although I also think he is well past it) maybe as he is a great man manager and quite good in cup competitions. He would give that team a freedom to attack also.
Mourinho and 90 minutes of bunker in most knockout ties wouldn't go down well with that team.

You don't need to go for Arteta's of this world. Poch is a solid choice, same would be with Allegri or taking a punt with a new upcoming group in Nagelsmann, Rose, Ten Hag.
Nagelsmann, Rose and Ten Hag should stay away from PSG. They need a club that they can keep growing into not a billionaire plaything who considers anything that is not CL success as failure. Allegri would drive PSG mad. He's too defensive. I think the only 3 managers who would consider PSG as a good move are Mou, Ancelotti and Pep.

For the record I think Poch is doing a mistake moving there.
 

Jim Beam

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Nagelsmann, Rose and Ten Hag should stay away from PSG. They need a club that they can keep growing into not a billionaire plaything who considers anything that is not CL success as failure. Allegri would drive PSG mad. He's too defensive. I think the only 3 managers who would consider PSG as a good move are Mou, Ancelotti and Pep.

For the record I think Poch is doing a mistake moving there.
I don't think PSG would ever consider Mourinho. Them going after Tuchel and now Poch proves they want to win it, but also win it with a somewhat nice brand of football.

As for Poch, yeah, not so sure also. Very tough to gain something, only CL win counts and a lot to lose if things don't go well.
 
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Nagelsmann, Rose and Ten Hag should stay away from PSG. They need a club that they can keep growing into not a billionaire plaything who considers anything that is not CL success as failure. Allegri would drive PSG mad. He's too defensive. I think the only 3 managers who would consider PSG as a good move are Mou, Ancelotti and Pep.

For the record I think Poch is doing a mistake moving there.
how many jobs has he been offered in the past 18 months? Perhaps no big club wants him.

The Caf seem to hold him in higher regard than anyone else.
 

devilish

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how many jobs has he been offered in the past 18 months? Perhaps no big club wants him.

The Caf seem to hold him in higher regard than anyone else.
I think he was unlucky TBH. Juventus were seriously considering him but then they went full skint mode with Pirlo. Ole's job was wobbly throughout the past few months only for Bruno to come in and rescue his and our arse while Zidane broke his word and he returned to Real. There's very few top jobs available at the moment.
 

JPRouve

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So much for a bad relationship:

That's a very generic statement. And I didn't say that they had a bad relationship, I said that they don't have a good one, they have a professional relationship.

Edit: And I make a distinction been poor and bad. The former meaning that it could be better and they haven't always been on the same page.
 

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So much for a bad relationship:

Kylian is just polite and you know that life is not necessarily black and white.

You know the reality is t, which is whoever the coach is, Kylian start to be bored of his life at PSG and consider a move abroad in 2021or 2022 max.
 

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That's a very generic statement. And I didn't say that they had a bad relationship, I said that they don't have a good one, they have a professional relationship.

Edit: And I make a distinction been poor and bad. The former meaning that it could be better and they haven't always been on the same page.
You realise the timing on that is anything but generic, right ? Before the club itself announced it.

Tuchel can actually use that post against PSG if he goes to court for unfair dismissal.

At any rate, some will spin his departure as resulting from poor relationship with the stars, when the opposite is actually true.
 

JPRouve

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You realise the timing on that is anything but generic, right ? Before the club itself announced it.

Tuchel can actually use that post against PSG if he goes to court for unfair dismissal.

At any rate, some will spin his departure as resulting from poor relationship with the stars, when the opposite is actually true.
You are the only one who went with the star relationship narrative and you keep trying to create something that isn't there.
 

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You are the only one who went with the star relationship narrative and you keep trying to create something that isn't there.
Not at all, here is one of the most famous French football journalists pushing the same narrative on TV :


The argument Tuchel was laid off because of a deteriorating relationship with the stars is complete dung.
 
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It was going to happen sooner or later. I rate him and believe he's done a decent job at PSG considering the egos he's had to deal with. Many already linking him up with Arsenal. A controversial character, no doubt. Question is whether they would be prepared to take that gamble and give him a free hand. Very much hit and miss! Could work out though. Maybe he's just what they need!
 

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Not at all, here is one of the most famous French football journalists pushing the same narrative on TV :


The argument Tuchel was laid off because of his poor relationship with the stars is complete dung.
It's not what he said. He said that the club didn't like his communication, that he lost influence in the locker room and that the results weren't great while drama was increasing.
 

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Tuchel has a different philosophy and personality than PSG because he is no dickhead, he simply resembled one because he joined PSG. Fake dickhead but no longer.
That's not true. Tuchel has been a big dickhead ever since BVB days. He gets in clash with players and board a lot. He makes Mourinho look like a yes man in comparison. Only Conte is worse in this regard at the moment.
 

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Well there aren't many top managers around, not anymore. Clubs have to choose between the same old tired faces (Ancelotti, Mourinho etc) or the random punt they stuck out of their arseholes (Arteta, Ole, Lampard etc).
That’s true, it’s only the tier 4 and 5 managers who manage football clubs anymore. Tier 1 to 3 are all busy full time with commenting on twitter and fan forums. ;)
 

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It's not what he said. He said that the club didn't like his communication, that he lost influence in the locker room and that the results weren't great while drama was increasing.
Yes it is, that his influence with the stars had been deteriorating. That is utter nonsense.
 

Wade3

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Him and Leonardo never got along, did they? It seems like the former was only waiting for the right opportunity to dismiss the latter.
 

JPRouve

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Yes it is, that his influence with the stars had been deteriorating. That is utter nonsense.
So you know the entirety of PSG's locker room personally and know how his communication went through each players?

And that's a different point to having a poor relationship with someone.
 

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I think he was unlucky TBH. Juventus were seriously considering him but then they went full skint mode with Pirlo. Ole's job was wobbly throughout the past few months only for Bruno to come in and rescue his and our arse while Zidane broke his word and he returned to Real. There's very few top jobs available at the moment.
I do not know where you got this from? The only serious candidate was Simone Inzaghi, who is Italian, used to this environment already and an Allegri understudy for style and demeanour. Pochettino made unsustainable requests (full managerial role instead of a mere coach, very high salary and long contract, a notable number of assistants, an overhaul of the squad) and was discarded without much ado. Again, the myth of Poch is non-existent, outof very local circles in the internet and the media. I just remember Villas Boas being reputed even higher than him at his peak and then lost in the mediatic wilderness of nowhereland... just happy to see him back in the spotlight at Marseille these days.
 

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So you know the entirety of PSG's locker room personally and know how his communication went through each players?

And that's a different point to having a poor relationship with someone.
Bouhafsi and others point to the stars, which there are only a handful. There is nothing indicating Tuchel has been laid off for a poor relationship, or deteriorating influence, whatever that means, with them.

If by chance one of said stars leaves the club in the future, it would therefore be a shame to see a point brought up that everything was done to keep them happy including laying off a manager, as that is complete nonsense.
 

JPRouve

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Bouhafsi and others point to the stars, which there are only a handful. There is nothing indicating Tuchel has been laid off for a poor relationship, or deteriorating influence, whatever that means, with them.

If by chance one of said stars leaves the club in the future, it would therefore be a shame to see a point brought up that everything was done to keep them happy including laying off a manager, as that is complete nonsense.
Bouhafsi points to his communication and results, he clearly says that El Khelaifi and Leonardo didn't like his communication in the press. He barely talks about stars outside of saying that when the direction questioned the players they felt that Tuchel communication had become a bit stale including to some star players. Finally he mentions the results and the poor results against Ligue 1 top teams.

And let's be honest, you have no clue about what every player in the locker room feels about the manager communication.
 

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Bouhafsi points to his communication and results, he clearly says that El Khelaifi and Leonardo didn't like his communication in the press. He barely talks about stars outside of saying that when the direction questioned the players they felt that Tuchel communication had become a bit stale including to some star players. Finally he mentions the results and the poor results against Ligue 1 top teams.

And let's be honest, you have no clue about what every player in the locker room feels about the manager communication.
He says the sporting director found that Tuchel lost influence with the stars. It is a lie. Tuchel only lost influence with the sporting director.

As for Mbappé's relationship with him, he was the first and so far only player to thank him. If that is a generic tribute, I wish every coworker with whom I had a poor relationship was that endearing.
 

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According to German sources the from the beginning poor relationship with Leonardo deteriorated beyond repair after the summer transfer window.
Tuchel wanted to keep Thiago Silva and Choupo Moting. He was outraged that Leonardo let Tanguy Nianzou, who he considered to be an exceptional talent, leave on a free to Bayern Munich. The reason was that Leonardo did not agree to match Bayern's wages, which for a club as PSG should be peanuts to do.
The press also reported that Tuchel didn't want any of the players Leonardo brought in during the last transfer window. Rafinha i.e. is to injury prone according to Tuchel.
The interview he gave the day before his sacking was actually meant to be published only in January 2021. However, some parts, taken out of context, have been leaked to the press early. It was about the PSG youth academy and development.

It seems to me the question was always Tuchel or Leonardo and in the end Leonardo won.
 

JPRouve

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He says the sporting director found that Tuchel lost influence with the stars. It is a lie. Tuchel only lost influence with the sporting director.

As for Mbappé's relationship with him, he was the first and so far only player to thank him. If that is a generic tribute, I wish every coworker with whom I had a poor relationship was that endearing.
Answer this question simply. Do you know what every PSG player thinks?
 

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Answer this question simply. Do you know what every PSG player thinks?
I don't remember making that claim. I know what Mbappé thinks and shared what he posted on social media. Incidentally backing up what I wrote yesterday.
 

JPRouve

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I don't remember making that claim.
You are making that claim when you pretend to know how much influence Tuchel had in the locker room when he was sacked.

And I will reiterate, the first thing that Bouhafsi said was that Leonardo and Al Khelaifi were fed up with his communication, so don't act as if it wasn't made clear that Leonardo had an issue with Tuchel.
 

Nani Nana

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You are making that claim when you pretend to know how much influence Tuchel had in the locker room when he was sacked.

And I will reiterate, the first thing that Bouhafsi said was that Leonardo and Al Khelaifi were fed up with his communication, so don't act as if it wasn't made clear that Leonardo had an issue with Tuchel.
I never pretended to know how much influence Tuchel had in the locker room, I said I knew what his relationship with Neymar and Mbappé was like.

The media are saying he lost influence with the stars and that is a lie. Unless Di Maria is the star.

On the other hand you came in and labelled his relationship with both as poor. Do share the info that led you to make that claim, aside of trivial footage from a year ago.
 

JPRouve

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I never pretended to know how much influence Tuchel had in the locker room, I said I knew what his relationship with Neymar and Mbappé was like.
So how do you know that Tuchel didn't lose influence in the locker room including some star players? You said that it was a lie.
 

Nani Nana

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So how do you know that Tuchel didn't lose influence in the locker room including some star players? You said that it was a lie.
Plainly because Neymar went from wanting out to wanting a new contract, whilst Mbappé was the first to thank him for his contribution to the club's history. Before the club even announced his departure officially.

Once again, your only argument for saying his relationship with Mbappé was poor or bad is random footage of a ten-second interaction a year ago. Not enough to label a day-to-day working relationship that lasted years.

Leonardo is just using these as arguments for kicking him out and the media are buying into it.
 

JPRouve

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Plainly because Neymar went from wanting out to wanting a new contract, whilst Mbappé was the first to thank him for his contribution to the club's history. Before the club even announced his departure officially.

Once again, your only argument for saying his relationship with Mbappé was poor or bad is random footage of a ten-second interaction a year ago. Not enough to label a day-to-day working relationship that lasted years.

Leonardo is just using these as arguments for kicking him out and the media are buying into it.
First I didn't mention Mbappé or Neymar and you are the one who posted the tweet to make a point that wasn't made in the video and completely ignored the fact that Leonardo and Al Khelaifi are the only person that are named in it and clearly mentioned as the ones having an issue with Tuchel. As for star players, it could be anyone from Icardi to Di Maria, Marquinhos, Verratti or whoever is considered a star by Bouhafsi.
When I told you what Bouhafsi said you claimed that Bouhafsi was lying which is why I asked how you knew that because unless you know personally every player in the locker room there is no way for you to know whether Tuchel lost influence among certain players.
 

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First I didn't mention Mbappé or Neymar and you are the one who posted the tweet to make a point that wasn't made in the video and completely ignored the fact that Leonardo and Al Khelaifi are the only person that are named in it and clearly mentioned as the ones having an issue with Tuchel. As for star players, it could be anyone from Icardi to Di Maria, Marquinhos, Verratti or whoever is considered a star by Bouhafsi.
When I told you what Bouhafsi said you claimed that Bouhafsi was lying which is why I asked how you knew that because unless you know personally every player in the locker room there is no way for you to know whether Tuchel lost influence among certain players.
Nope, once again this is what you quoted me with yesterday:

He has a poor relationship with both Neymar and Mbappé. And he didn't any choice regarding academy products, PSG have been selling their bench since 2017.
and that is an argument used by the media to justify his dismissal. Yet no one has proof of that, yours being that post-substitution footage which proves nothing.

The reality is both players had a good working relationship with him, and Leonardo has briefed the media to claim otherwise. If he had a poor relationship with Mbappé, there is no reason why the latter would pay him a glowing tribute before the dismissal is even made official.
 

JPRouve

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Nope, once again this is what you quoted me with yesterday:



and that is an argument used by the media to justify his dismissal. Yet no one has proof of that, yours being that post-substitution footage which proves nothing.

The reality is both players had a good working relationship with him, and Leonardo has briefed the media to claim otherwise. If he had a poor relationship with Mbappé, there is no reason why the latter would pay him a glowing tribute before the dismissal is even made official.
That has nothing to do with the tweet that you shared, you posted it because you made the claim that the press was blaming his relationship with star players. And I told you that it wasn't what the video in the tweet was suggesting.


Not at all, here is one of the most famous French football journalists pushing the same narrative on TV :


The argument Tuchel was laid off because of a deteriorating relationship with the stars is complete dung.
 

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That has nothing to do with the tweet that you shared, you posted it because you made the claim that the press was blaming his relationship with star players. And I told you that it wasn't what the video in the tweet was suggesting.
Yes it is, open your ears around the 40-second mark.
 

JPRouve

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Yes it is, open your ears around the 40-second mark.
Are you for real? I already told you what he said at that point, we already talked about it and you already admitted that you didn't know what the locker room thought and what all star players thought. And I also told you what he said before that, that Leonardo and Al Khelaifi had a problem with his communication and his constant complaints.
What you try to claim isn't true, Leonardo and Al Khelaifi are the first people named as having a problem with Tuchel, Bouhafsi then mentioned the loss of influence in the locker room including with some star players and then he mentions the poor results against Ligue 1 top teams.

You are the one trying to spin it, in fact I should add that RMC wrote an article about it and they clearly state that Leonardo had a problem with Tuchel from day one and that he wasn't his choice, they also add that he won't be able to hide behind the coach anymore and take full responsibility.

Also an important thing, I like Tuchel, I think that he did a good job and earlier in the thread I said that the probable reasons behind his sacking was the fact that Leonardo didn't choose him and that he was always complaining about something in the press. I never said that it was due to his relationship with players.
 

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Are you for real? I already told you what he said at that point, we already talked about it and you already admitted that you didn't know what the locker room thought and what all star players thought. And I also told you what he said before that, that Leonardo and Al Khelaifi had a problem with his communication and his constant complaints.
What you try to claim isn't true, Leonardo and Al Khelaifi are the first people named as having a problem with Tuchel, Bouhafsi then mentioned the loss of influence in the locker room including with some star players and then he mentions the poor results against Ligue 1 top teams.

You are the one trying to spin it, in fact I should add that RMC wrote an article about it and they clearly state that Leonardo had a problem with Tuchel from day one and that he wasn't his choice, they also add that he won't be able to hide behind the coach anymore and take full responsibility.

Also an important thing, I like Tuchel, I think that he did a good job and earlier in the thread I said that the probable reasons behind his sacking was the fact that Leonardo didn't choose him and that he was always complaining about something in the press. I never said that it was due to his relationship with players.
Romain Molina posted a video on that subject (I'm not allowed to post media, but it's on youtube), it might settle your discussion :)
 

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Romain Molina posted a video on that subject (I'm not allowed to post media, but it's on youtube), it might settle your discussion :)
And Molina is confirming what Bouhafsi said. First the results, secondly his relationship with Leonardo and other executives and this time Molina adds that he completely lost the locker room after the Istanbul game and a bunch of things like poor training sessions and physical conditioning. He also says that the decision was taken by Doha.

 

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And Molina is confirming what Bouhafsi said. First the results, secondly his relationship with Leonardo and other executives and this time Molina adds that he completely lost the locker room after the Istanbul game and a bunch of things like poor training sessions and physical conditioning. He also says that the decision was taken by Doha.

I already wrote about that yesterday, if you read my post here.

Romain Molina did not explain how Tuchel, having lost his dressing room, got the team to win 5-1 the next day with goals from his superstars.

Anyway the deed is done, I will not continue to argue with posters who do not read my posts.
 

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I already wrote about that yesterday, if you read my post here.

Romain Molina did not explain how Tuchel, having lost his dressing room, got the team to win 5-1 the next day with goals from his superstars.

Anyway the deed is done, I will not continue to argue with posters who do not read my posts.
I read your posts, you are the one that seemingly didn't care about what others write. And why would Molina explain that? The players can act professionally and be unhappy with the situation.

Honestly I don't understand you, you admit that you don't know how the locker room feels but then refuse to accept any report telling you that it wasn't great. It makes no sense.