I don’t think TFM attacking game will ever be good enough for us. United have to aim higher. With experience he can be a monster RB...defensively at least.
Timothy Fosu-Mensah | 2017/18 Crystal Palace Performances
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He can already play as a destructive DM in that role and has played t
Yeah, those stats are definitely cause for concern, however I think if played centrally and playing the simple possesion game that McTominay has been clearly instructed to play then you would see almost identical stats from both.
Whenever I see TFM in possession on the flanks he looks like a player who has is looking around frantically to get his bearings and doesn't alway seem to understand where the easiest/most correct pass is. When played centrally or moving into the center of the pitch from the flanks he seem to find making a pass and understanding his options far easier.
He's played it about twice to a below average standard. There is a massive difference to being a composed CB to being a midfielder. He'll never be a top DM. He can be at CB.
He has played both at reserve level and can perform effectively as a DM destroyer if needs be. There is no reason why he can't gain experience in both roles with CB his most accomplished position. He is better suited to both of those roles than the one he currently plays which is mostly at RB out on loan which is clearly not his position.
He never really played DM for the reserves, infact he isn't listed at DM for any reserve game. He has performed effectively at RB too. His game at RB against Arsenal was better than he has ever been at DM. There is also no reason to expect him to become a DM for us at a top level when he has never shown a capability to. He isn't suited to DM at all imo, he looked lost most of the time there for the first team. He's fine to fill in there or RB but he'll never make it here at either or those positions. Only at CB.
He has played there and it is officially listed as one of his positions (and makes mention of his ability and history there on his bio on United official website). I've not said he can be a world beater there as I don't feel he is a potentially exceptional player in any position even CB(he is a potentially very good player but not an exceptional one for me). However he can and has done an effective job there and its shouldn't be a problem for a player to learn two positions. Much like Dier at Tottenham he can be a CB who steps out from the back with the ball, or a DM who offers the back four protection and sits and breaks down attacks.
Good effort compiling the comparative stats.
One problem is, we and Crystal Palace play different style of football, we're more of a possessions style (most of our games) while CP most likely is more of a long ball counter attacks so their passes are more direct, quick and less accuracy. Pass stats in theory should be lower, as shown. Still need more passing stats to get clearer picture and properly follow CP's games. Quality of team mates can also be a factor.
Still, those defensive contributions of TFM's are impressive. His passing not so much. Then again, I don't rate his passing ability that high based from the games he've played with us.
When has he played there for the reserves, do you have specific games? Officially listed as one of his positions where? Makes mention on the official site where? It says he played further advanced in one game against Chelsea. He didn't play as a DM in that game either, he played as a CB in a back 3. Well you've said you'd like to see him as a DM in our starting XI. That's the top standard. I disagree that he doesn't have the potential to be an exceptional CB. And he has shown nothing to suggest he can be good enough to play for us at DM.
I see some posters rated him to be a DM/CDM. Have to disagree. Being a top team, we need our CDM to be more all-around and contribute to both attacks and defense. We don't need a DM that will only focus on defending. Mourinho tried to play him as one (CDM) before, but seems to no longer entertain that idea. In attacking phase, the role of the CDM is to connect defense to attack either by two ways in general (1)passing or (2)bringing the ball forward by carry or dribble. He's not that good enough at either one for me. For the latter, his ability for that is fair, but he excel better having more space and clearer route to negotiate. Not to mention, playing at the centre, you need to have a wide awareness of your surrounding which TFM doesn't seem to have, with his positioning and decision making. Obv, need to see him more playing with us to judge better.
TFM can cover the CDM role, but just as a cover after our other good options are out injured or whatever, instead the only role and position I can see him flourish is as a RB only, which is perhaps the only one that play to his strengths i.e insane speed to exploit, wider spaces, less focus on who to mark/tackle/take-down etc.
TFM can cover the CDM role, but just as a cover after our other good options are out injured or whatever, instead the only role and position I can see him flourish is as a RB only, which is perhaps the only one that play to his strengths i.e insane speed to exploit, wider spaces, less focus on who to mark/tackle/take-down etc.
valencia is decent but Timothy can win the right back spot if Mourinho give him an honest chance and honestly in my opinion I hope he win the right back spot,
I'd love for him to be our starting right back next season. Valencia has been solid enough for us there but we need to move on I feel and TFM is a great way to do that. If we do well with him he could be our right back for ten years or more.
He can slot Into centre back seamlessly as well, ideal player to have at United.
He can slot Into centre back seamlessly as well, ideal player to have at United.
I hope Mensah and Tuanzebe are regulars next season. We badly need to shape up our defence.
It’s time to move on from Valencia, Smalling, Jones and Young.
It’s time to move on from Valencia, Smalling, Jones and Young.
Before we get carried away, some comments on him from Palace fans on Reddit.
Those Reddit comments are hardly new, TFM's decision making have always been suspect, and his inconsistencies is expected as a young player. Also, those Palace fans commentors have insanely high expectations of him 
which I'll just take it as a good thing.
which I'll just take it as a good thing.
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Here is his official Wikipedia page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Fosu-Mensah
See under positions for evidence that he has played there and is recognized as both a CB and DM as well as a full back.
Here is his bio on united official website:
http://www.manutd.com/en/Players-And-Staff/First-Team/Tim-Fosu-Mensah.aspx
Here is Paul McGuiness' description of him:
"Tim made an impact," declared former coach Paul McGuinness. "He's a lad who was very good in the FA Youth Cup games. He played in midfield and at the back and, as a new addition, settling into the club takes time. Obviously, he's shown some really good qualities. He has very good acceleration over the ground to win the ball and then break forward. He has shown some outstanding work."
Here from the same bio is Warren Joyce's description of him:
Back in August 2015, Joyce told ManUtd.com: "He [Fosu-Mensah] is a footballer. If you’re looking for footballers, you’ve got to look at what their real strengths are. He played at the back for us and, in the first game against Salford, he was arguably at fault with their three goals. He could stay there as he’s played there and in holding midfield for his country, the Netherlands, but you have to look at his strengths and what else he can offer the team. We’ve got to hone his strengths as well, so he ultimately he can be selected for the first team."
The same bio also goes on to mention it again here:
In 2016/17, Fosu-Mensah was limited to just a handful of appearances, although he’ll have undoubtedly learned plenty from being regularly involved in the first-team set-up. “I want to play as long as I can for this beautiful club and win as many trophies as I can for United. I want to win the Champions League and then the World Cup – these are my boyhood dreams,” he enthused back in January. The future certainly looks bright for the teenage defender, who can also play as a defensive midfielder.
So I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it, I'll be damned if I can remember a single reserve game a month after its been played and its been about 6 months since I watched our reserves play however its should be pretty clear from the above that he has a history of playing both as a CB and DM with CB being his most natural position. That doesn't mean he cannot do a good job at DM which is the point I'm making as he can easily play there as a destroyer there, but I've made it clear that his natural position is CB.
The tactical part of his game will come. That's not a problem. The more he plays the more he'll iron out any inconsistencies. That's why he was sent out on loan in the first place. To learn his trade away from the pressures of United. Next season he is completely ready to be integrated into the first team.
I really like the look of TFL and the fact he hasn't got a defined position yet, perhaps shows his range of skills and attributes.
I defintely think he is better centrally and I can see him working out as either a centre back of defensive mid. The former is probably his better position due to his relatively limited tactical awareness, but that is an area he can develop.
He's done ok at right back for palace and could be a rotation option for us. But others have rightly pointed out his awkwardness in attack and this is perhaps highlighted by his much better performances recently as centre back.
Looking forward to seeing him here next season. He will be a bit of a Daley Blind utility player at the start, serving as a rotation in different positions. But I reckon he can nail down a place fairly soon if he continues the current development trajectory.
Unless we are selling a few centre backs in the summer (Jones, blind, rojo and smalling are all open to offers in my view), it's likely he will get greater chances in midfield given the current lack of options.
I defintely think he is better centrally and I can see him working out as either a centre back of defensive mid. The former is probably his better position due to his relatively limited tactical awareness, but that is an area he can develop.
He's done ok at right back for palace and could be a rotation option for us. But others have rightly pointed out his awkwardness in attack and this is perhaps highlighted by his much better performances recently as centre back.
Looking forward to seeing him here next season. He will be a bit of a Daley Blind utility player at the start, serving as a rotation in different positions. But I reckon he can nail down a place fairly soon if he continues the current development trajectory.
Unless we are selling a few centre backs in the summer (Jones, blind, rojo and smalling are all open to offers in my view), it's likely he will get greater chances in midfield given the current lack of options.
Why have you suddenly switched to talking about TFM? I questioned your point about Axel playing as a DM not TFM.
His attacking output is very poor for a FB. He isn't great at crossing or overlapping.
He is strong and good defensively but that doesn't make him good enough to be a regular starter at Manchester United, especially since we have no RW and we depend on our RB to play as RW, RCM and RB.
The role of FBs in this Era of inside forwards is much more than defending. Most modern FBs are good going forward and OK at defending - Marcelo, Mendy, Semedo, Luis Gaya,Walker, Rose, Bellerin etc
We need real quality in the FB position and we have not had proper FBs for a long time
I'm telling you 2 CMs and 2 FBs can transform this team.
On TFM I think he can play as a CB for us and I hope he can really start playing consistently as a CB so that he gets experienced in that role
Apologies we appear to be at cross purposes and I thought we were talking about TFM although going back to look I can see this was originally my misunderstanding and not yours.
The same point can still be made of Tuanzebe however, here is his Wiki description:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Tuanzebe
Although DM is not in his position description at the side of the page here is what is says further down:
Tuanzebe's preferred position is at centre-back, but he can also play as a right-back, and has featured as a holding midfielder.[17][18] His playing style has been compared to that of teammate Eric Bailly and Bayern Munich's Javi Martínez.[19] Tuanzebe's performance on his first-team debut in a friendly against Wigan Athletic in July 2016 led manager José Mourinho to remark, "10 minutes is enough! The potential is there, you see it immediately."[20]
And this is backed up by this article:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...tball-news/who-is-axel-tuanzebe-wiki-11620920
particular here:
Name: Axel Tuanzebe
Birthplace: Bunia, Democratic Republic of Congo
Position: Centre-back (can play in defensive midfield)
It should be pretty clear that he can and has played there although much like TFM his natural position is CB which is why I've said vice verse in terms of which one plays CB and which plays DM.