rotherham_red
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The people talking about Liverpool seem to be discounting that they'll be without Salah and Mane for a month in 2022 due to AFCON
It was a difficult game away from home, first time after 18 months in St.Mary's with fans! 2nd game of the season! Our strongest 11 isn't up to speed yet. These are valid "excuses" for Ole, but he didn't say it.It's because there's a group of posters who already made their minds up long ago that Ole isn't up to it, and who's reinforced that belief by repeating it online and defending it against all comers for so long that they've long since gotten out of the habit of questioning themselves. When things go well they're silent, when they don't they're off the mark immediately, and against a diminishing crowd of opposition because there's only so long people can stomach engaging in pointless discussion with people who generally only see what their preconceptions tell them is there.
It's important of course to avoid falling into the opposite trap too. The way this team has been evolving over the past couple of seasons, it's frankly absurd to talk as if there's any sort of case for seeing the manager as inadequate, but also it is not yet at its end destination, and no one can take it for granted that OGS will get us there. I think it's annoying that it's really not possible to have a reasoned discussion about worries and shortcomings in games like Southampton (there were more than a few) because it's just drowned out by an incredible amount of hyperbole and nonsense that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with people seizing on it to go "There! That's what I've been saying for a year now!".
But if we have 5-10 games where we play like that this season, we're not going to challenge for a title, that's for sure. We might get away with a handful, and sometimes we'll get the points anyway, but it's looking like it's going to be a really tight 4-team race and chances are at least one of the other three is going to deliver consistency.
What I found most worrying against Southampton vis-a-vis title-challenging credentials was the lack of urgency and ideas in the final 10-20 minutes, in such marked contrast to the dominant football they delivered for the first 20 minutes or so of the second half. It's like they shoot their bolt, and when it's shot it's shot, and they lapse into acceptance that this is how it's going to end up. It's hard to tell what's the reason for that, and fortunately there are also many examples of the opposite, but again that's the sort of thing they can't do more than very occasionally if they're going to have a chance.
And, expectations are different this year. Last season, it was still about continuing improvement, you accepted that there would be setbacks and games like this didn't worry me too much. But now, performances like this is a standard we can't afford to drop to more than very occasionally. It really brings across the magnitude of the challenge we're up against, and what it actually means to take the step from being a really promising team on a good development curve, to actually being a contender.
They'll miss a maximum of 4 games each assuming Egypt and Senegal go all the way and meet in the final. During that time their fixtures are Brentford and Leicester at home, Burnley and Crystal Palace away.The people talking about Liverpool seem to be discounting that they'll be without Salah and Mane for a month in 2022 due to AFCON
The premier league have saw to that and ensured Liverpool have been given Crystal Palace and Brentford in this month. On top of the other two games being Fa cup matches so basically they’ll miss two league games against cannon fodder.The people talking about Liverpool seem to be discounting that they'll be without Salah and Mane for a month in 2022 due to AFCON
That's all fine, but it kind of returns me to what I wrote about how difficult it is to have a discussion about real concerns and issues in individual games. Because there's one lot who just treat that as confirmation it's all gone to shite, and another who tends to see anything critical as a veiled criticism of OGS. I''m not arguing there's equivalence, the last position is a lot more understandable than the first, but you know, you're jumping to Ole's defence in your reply despite the fact my post didn't contain a single word of criticism against him.It was a difficult game away from home, first time after 18 months in St.Mary's with fans! 2nd game of the season! Our strongest 11 isn't up to speed yet. These are valid "excuses" for Ole, but he didn't say it.
People overreacting, and like you said, there is always 2 sides of the supporters + trolls who will always disrespecting Ole.
I always believe a happy and stable squad will win something, Ole has done that first and foremost.
Gotta disagree on this, buddy.I always believe a happy and stable squad will win something, Ole has done that first and foremost.
Then people shouldn't write off Ole just yet.Gotta disagree on this, buddy.
Chelsea appear to have a revolving door when it comes to managers and also players. The pressure to win trophies at that club is high and they don't seem like a happy bunch. They win trophies.
Under Jose, the players weren't particularly happy. They won 2 trophies.
Under Fergie, there was a lot of pressure to perform and win. When we didn't win Fergie came down like a tonne of bricks on some of our players, so happiness wasn't high on Fergie's agenda. Fergie won a lot of trophies.
Ole has had a happy squad for the last 2.5 years. He has won nothing.
Good comparisons with Klopp. Ole has done what has been expected of him so far. But as you can see Klopp took Liverpool up miles the following season after getting his squad together and that is where Ole is now. He has the squad so I expect big thingsThen people shouldn't write off Ole just yet.
Klopp didn't win anything in his first 3 seasons, after he signed his marquee signings he won something. We came close, and points accumulation rising for each season under Ole.
I believe he can show the world, that managers can have breakthroughs, people don't want to believe it, but anything can happen in football.
Of course, we are expecting big things this season.Good comparisons with Klopp. Ole has done what has been expected of him so far. But as you can see Klopp took Liverpool up miles the following season after getting his squad together and that is where Ole is now. He has the squad so I expect big things
HahaI can see us closer to 90 points, than to 80 points. Not sure if that's enough to win the title, but it's up there.
I think Liverpool finishes 4th, but after that, is anybody's guess. Without a striker i think Man City will suffer, even though Pep likes to play with a false 9.
Chelsea are the team to beat.
Why can't you people comprehend the difference between Klopp taking that piss poor Liverpool and turning it into what it is today and Ole taking a top 4 club, admittedly with some problems, and making it a top 4 club? Might also be good to look at the money spent and the fact that Klopp's side generally have a clear football that they'd like to play and it is often very pleasing on the eyes, unlike Ole's... whatever football he is playing.Then people shouldn't write off Ole just yet.
Klopp didn't win anything in his first 3 seasons, after he signed his marquee signings he won something. We came close, and points accumulation rising for each season under Ole.
I believe he can show the world, that managers can have breakthroughs, people don't want to believe it, but anything can happen in football.
Be patient. Maybe soon enough those stupid comparisons will stopWhy can't you people comprehend the difference between Klopp taking that piss poor Liverpool and turning it into what it is today and Ole taking a top 4 club, admittedly with some problems, and making it a top 4 club? Might also be good to look at the money spent and the fact that Klopp's side generally have a clear football that they'd like to play and it is often very pleasing on the eyes, unlike Ole's... whatever football he is playing.
Prob win all the hard games.
That's what our squad is for.Why do we consistently get less recovery time between games compared to others? This week City and Liverpool played on Tuesday, their next game is tomorrow. We played Wednesday and then the earliest possible game of the weekend. Surely this isn't helping us with these shit performances.
Liverpool are winning it, I’m pretty sure of that. Expect them to beat city tomorrow.I still don't think there will be an actual title race at all - for there to be one then Liverpool need to hit a rough patch immediately basically; if they open up a lead now then it won't matter what happens with AFCON, they won't be caught by anyone.
For us the challenge still is finishing fourth as we're unlikely to finish above Chelsea or City in their battle for second, but I'm now feeling less confident about the ease we'll have of finishing fourth.
Long, long season ahead for us.
More likely 2 games against teams Liverpool should beat.The people talking about Liverpool seem to be discounting that they'll be without Salah and Mane for a month in 2022 due to AFCON
Did teams regularly get to 90 points when Fergie was here?Fergie teams never started strong. No team can maintain top form for an entire season, there are always ups and downs. Fergie teams would peak around and after Christmas and really kick on from there. That is when the teams that started strong would start to lag and we would reel them in. Was the same every year.
Arsenal didn’t beat Brighton. Are we suddenly sound for the top 4 now? Why are so many people making posts like this after 7 games? Mental.If Arsenal manage to beat Brighton later then they will only be 2 points behind us, having already played Chelsea, City and Spurs.
We might have to brace ourselves for a top 4 scrap, forget the title.
I suggest you take a look at United seasons post 05/06. Fergie said it himself in his autobiography that he had to change his method to start strong as well, or get left behind, as Mourinho changed the game with the way his team started.Fergie teams never started strong. No team can maintain top form for an entire season, there are always ups and downs. Fergie teams would peak around and after Christmas and really kick on from there. That is when the teams that started strong would start to lag and we would reel them in. Was the same every year.
Because Arsenal were in the dog house after the first 3 games, yet they were in that position before the game and it highlighted how bad us dropping points to eminently winnable games has been. We got a grand total of 7 points against last season top 4,2 against Leicester, 2 against Arsenal, 3 against Spurs. It's not as if our big game record recently has given any confidence of us being able to make up for those silly dropped points with the run of fixtures coming up.Arsenal didn’t beat Brighton. Are we suddenly sound for the top 4 now? Why are so many people making posts like this after 7 games? Mental.
This is the kind of stuff that ties into the thread made about ‘The United Way’. The PL is so different now - it’s not better or worse it just is what it is - but you simply can’t compare it or draw parallels to old teams.Fergie teams never started strong. No team can maintain top form for an entire season, there are always ups and downs. Fergie teams would peak around and after Christmas and really kick on from there. That is when the teams that started strong would start to lag and we would reel them in. Was the same every year.
So Klopp spent significantly less and finished with more points in his 2nd and 3rd seasons than Ole is what you're saying. He got them to the CL Final in his 3rd season too, so we should expect the same from Ole...Then people shouldn't write off Ole just yet.
Klopp didn't win anything in his first 3 seasons, after he signed his marquee signings he won something. We came close, and points accumulation rising for each season under Ole.
I believe he can show the world, that managers can have breakthroughs, people don't want to believe it, but anything can happen in football.
No chance.6 points behind West Ham and a resurgent Arsenal with Stamford Bridge tomorrow and Arsenal at home next week.
I think we're fecking fecked for top 4.
It’s not like Utd are chasing City, Chelsea or the scousers, who will only drop a handful of points until the end of the season.6 points behind West Ham and a resurgent Arsenal with Stamford Bridge tomorrow and Arsenal at home next week.
I think we're fecking fecked for top 4.
Nine points in 24 matches seems more than doable.I’m a bit worried about the news that Rangnick won’t be in place until after Arsenal. If Arsenal win at OT on Thurs and United lose again tomorrow, it is all but done for top four this season. We would be nine points behind Arsenal and very likely seven or nine behind West Ham too. Good luck overturning that with 24 games to play with a very inconsistent side.