To the posters saying Mourinho is done

[montpelier]

Gonna find out aren't we?

Worse than last season in defence, certainly. I was amazed we got anything at Anfield.

but Better against weaker teams going forward (possibly), can be really poor though

would be my non-hysterical view, atm

Top 4 chances - slim, might have said 50/50 previously at best so not in total panic just yet..

 

[NYAS]

Sorry, but what's the point of being a manager? Why are we paying him £10m a year to come in and say "sell everyone, I want to buy my own players"?

I'm sick and tired of giving new managers free passes to be as shit as they like in their first season. There are no excuses at all, stop sugar-coating things. The job of a manager is to win games given the resources available and preferably do it in a dominating manner for as long as possible.

He has so far failed to make any mark on this team. No clear style of play, no indication of much-needed tactical innovation, not enough acknowledgement of poor performances from certain players, no proof of any ability to come back from a goal down whatsoever. For a guy who likes intensity while attacking and defensive solidity, it's pathetic how much his team are showing the complete opposite.

What does that suggest? What does that tell you about any manager who comes in and can't get through to his players? Can't make an impact? Can't maintain any semblance of a winning run?

We talk about Smalling, Blind and Fellaini and how shit they are. Those are only 3 players that started. What about the rest? Are they all shit as well? Quite curious as to how they're all shit and it's not the manager's fault. Even if they are and have been shit for 3 years. Is it too much to expect the "best manager in the world" to come in and improve at least a couple of players in a consistent manner?

What do you think a manager is for? If you think about it and really go beyond your coping mechanisms then you'll find he's really failing at most of the things a club expects from a manager. A manager's job is not to go out and buy 11 new players.

Face the music. We have 2 points from 9 available in the last three games. We lost three games in a row not long before that.

The man is failing at his job and it's extremely disappointing.

 

[LFC-Fans]

When Mourinho came into the job everyone was saying how unlike Klopp or Wenger or heck even Brendan, Mourinho is a manager that can bring instant success. You were saying how Mourinho might not be your manager for long, but in the short time that he is, he will bring titles.

NOW it seems as though Mourinho needs to be given time, and there is going to be a season of transition for you. These are words that are associated with managers like Klopp etc. Not Mourinho, so I think fans are struggling to come to terms with that realisation, and it has forced them to re-evaluate their expectations. Something which, while nothing serious (I mean if you ask me its better that way... for him to really cement a playing style that can last years rather than a quick 2 year spell with one PL title), it can force unexpected knee-jerk reactions.

Thats how I see it anyway...
Its just the effect of fans having to re-evalutate the process of returning to the top.
Forget the instant success. Its a long process.

But because this long process is different from the "original" instant quick success plan. The media and some fans have misinterpreted it as Mourinho failing.

 

[Krovv]

A few games from now United will thrash Arsenal and everyone will proclaim him as the new messiah. It's almost destined to happen. Arsenal thrash Chelsea. Chelsea thrash United. United will thrash Arsenal.

 

[bleedred]

When Mourinho came into the job everyone was saying how unlike Klopp or Wenger or heck even Brendan, Mourinho is a manager that can bring instant success. You were saying how Mourinho might not be your manager for long, but in the short time that he is, he will bring titles.

NOW it seems as though Mourinho needs to be given time, and there is going to be a season of transition for you. These are words that are associated with managers like Klopp etc. Not Mourinho, so I think fans are struggling to come to terms with that realisation, and it has forced them to re-evaluate their expectations. Something which, while nothing serious (I mean if you ask me its better that way... for him to really cement a playing style that can last years rather than a quick 2 year spell with one PL title), it can force unexpected knee-jerk reactions.

Thats how I see it anyway...
Its just the effect of fans having to re-evalutate the process of returning to the top.
Forget the instant success. Its a long process.

But because this long process is different from the "original" instant quick success plan. The media and some fans have misinterpreted it as Mourinho failing.

By short time, I guess no one meant 10 games...

 

[Treble]

I think people had this opinion before this game or this season.

Honestly, he's not been the same since Real Madrid.

Very true.

 

[togg]

Well, there is no way Woodward is going to sack Mou regardless of what people think or want, so that is hardly a debate. Regardless of what happens this season he will be hear next year as well. Woodward's not stupid, you can't keep sacking managers and expect things to get better. They won't.

I do think the spectre of the 'awe of Ferguson' ways heavily. Jose needs to kick that out, rise above it and say, 'this is my united, my anger, my passion, my team' and start wielding some forceful power around the place. He's a big stage player...needs to grow into it more and become menacing in his ambition.

 

[Treble]

I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger gets his first win vs Mou soon. The game is going to be epic, given their feud.

 

[RedElf]

JM is going to need good successive windows to sort this mess out.

 

[Krovv]

I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger get his first win vs Mou soon. The game is going to be epic.

If you count the Community Shield, it's already happened.

 

[DevilRed]

I wouldn't be surprised if Wenger gets his first win vs Mou soon. The game is going to be epic, given their feud.

We have them at home in a few weeks time. Hopefully we would have improved and sorted out our best team by then.

Maybe even have Mkhitaryan in the fold. FFS we have the german player of the year not even on the bench.

 

[Ramshock]

Can you feck off?

We're not even 10 games into the season, and there are post flying about already about how he's not the right man.

Blaming Mourinho after the 3rd and 4th goal when it has nothing to do with him anymore. Smalling might as well be a lamp post, we just lost Baily (again, not to do with the manager) and I'm finding countless posts about how finished our manager is.

Yeah, he shouldn't have started Fellaini IMO but that is the sole qualm I can have about the way we set out today. The laps in concentration in the first 30 seconds is all on our players shoulders, and they're the ones needing to talk a strong look at themselves. Its like the patience of some fans is getting worse and worse each year. Christ.

Where were you when LVG was getting same treatment? Also as said before last season at Chelsea happened but people here all to quick to dismiss any issues there may be with Jose!

 

[marlowe78]

When Mourinho came into the job everyone was saying how unlike Klopp or Wenger or heck even Brendan, Mourinho is a manager that can bring instant success. You were saying how Mourinho might not be your manager for long, but in the short time that he is, he will bring titles.

NOW it seems as though Mourinho needs to be given time, and there is going to be a season of transition for you. These are words that are associated with managers like Klopp etc. Not Mourinho, so I think fans are struggling to come to terms with that realisation, and it has forced them to re-evaluate their expectations. Something which, while nothing serious (I mean if you ask me its better that way... for him to really cement a playing style that can last years rather than a quick 2 year spell with one PL title), it can force unexpected knee-jerk reactions.

Thats how I see it anyway...
Its just the effect of fans having to re-evalutate the process of returning to the top.
Forget the instant success. Its a long process.

But because this long process is different from the "original" instant quick success plan. The media and some fans have misinterpreted it as Mourinho failing.

I see your point, but when was the last time Mourinho was a rebuild manager? He made quite a few changes when he returned to Chelsea, but that was nothing compared to what United has needed to do since SAF left. Ever since that disaster with Moyes, it's like there's ungoing overlap between one manager's squad and the next and nothing is coming together.

I agree that a rebuild is the way to go, but we had that kind of manager the last two seasons. He was disappointing in a lot of ways, while there were also positives that have been swept under the carpet. I really thought we were onto something with that young core of talent but fans were bollocking LVG's talk of 'building foundations' and now we've got Mourinho, which indicates that the club is looking to get CL birth/title contention right away, today.

So I don't think fans are resetting expectations as much as trying to deal with how poorly Mourinho has been, because he came in with the plain expectation to start winning games. Which he isn't.

 

[duffer]

If you count the Community Shield, it's already happened.

Friendlies don't count.

Unless Chelsea win them.

 

[Feed Me]

Every title challenger except United has produced at least one 'statement' win so far this season, one game where you can look at their manager and say that his decisions have helped to impact the outcome in a positive way. It's very much early days, but JM hasn't exactly sparkled. He needs to find a suitable system like Conte has at Chelsea. At the moment, his only plan seems to be six at the back and pray for a point.

 

[Adebesi]

I posted this in September , I have nothing to add to it.

It does feel premature to be talking about this but this is the world today, always impatient, always looking for instant gratification.

Im also fully behind Mourinho. Id be lying if I said I havent been thinking about what happened at Chelsea last season a lot in the last few days. Its there in the background, something to be aware of. But its too early to say he's lost the plot and we are seeing a continuation of his demise.

There are two factors contributing to the need for patience here. The first is that Mourinho's track record demands it. He's shown he knows what he's doing and we all knew we had fairly serious issues that needed to be addressed, we cant be that surprised he didnt resolve them all in the first 5 games.

The other is there is literally nowhere else for us to go. What are we going to do, call Giggs and please for forgiveness, beg him to come back and save us? Try and poach Rafa from Newcastle? Who else is out there who can come and sort this out if Mourinho cant?

Mourinho was the last roll of the dice, we sink or swim together. We have to be patient and hope he can chart a way out of this, and accept it will take more time than we hoped or expected. We'll get there.

 

[An Irish Red]

It's damning evidence against Mourinho that Pep, Conte and Klopp have come in and had the exact instant impact on their teams that Mourinho has so obviously failed to achieve himself.

Klopp had less points at the equivalent stage of his Liverpool career though, he didn't have an instant impact at all.

 

[prath92]

I don't know if he is done but we never lost 4-0 at home to anyone (other than MK Dons with a shit tram) in the last 3 years. And Chelsea aren't exactly flying this season either. A loss is fine but 4-0 is too much. It maybe 10 games only but a loss like this to a fellow strugglers isn't forgivable.

I don't understand how players turn to shit suddenly. I can't remember DDG making a mistake like that ever (Closest is his handball outside the box against Chelsea in 14/15 end).

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Klopp had less points at the equivalent stage of his Liverpool career though, he didn't have an instant impact at all.

He did have less to work with

 

[AXVnee7]

Klopp had less points at the equivalent stage of his Liverpool career though, he didn't have an instant impact at all.

Klopp didn't get a pre-season and money to spend to get some of his own players in. He had to come in and literally work a squad of players he had very limited knowledge about.

 

[DevilRed]

I don't know if he is done but we never lost 4-0 at home to anyone (other than MK Dons with a shit tram) in the last 3 years. And Chelsea aren't exactly flying this season either. A loss is fine but 4-0 is too much. It maybe 10 games only but a loss like this to a fellow strugglers isn't forgivable.

I don't understand how players turn to shit suddenly. I can't remember DDG making a mistake like that ever (Closest is his handball outside the box against Chelsea in 14/15 end).

Lets hope it was a one off.

That mistake really cost us. This mentally fragile team never recovered.

Hopefully Jose can change the mentality and fight in this squad.

 

[Jazz]

It's just too early for this. I actually believe he'll get there. What we don't need is to panic and buy into any old crap the press and opposition fans will throw at us. We did this last season and sort of helped the press kick LVG out (though he obviously didn't help himself). We actually, literally need to be patient here.

I remember when JM went back to Chelsea - in his first season there, Chelsea, in my opinion, played some shit boring crap football. Their saving grace was still getting top four. However, the important thing that impressed me was how patient the supporters were, how they defended JM and their club and ultimately, they won the title the next season. Yes last season was shit. But the point is that the supporters stuck with him and got some reward the next season at least.
If we start losing it no doubt the press will feed on that and pile the pressure on - we really can't afford another season of that like we had with LVG who didn't deserved to be so brutally shat on at all times. yes he made mistakes, but the shit heaped on him was over the top and it didn't help the team. We really can't afford this to happen this season.

 

[Fridge chutney]

We can't read much into today's result. We've played 3 matches in 6 days. Chelsea had 8 days rest. It showed.

That said , Rojo needs to go. Fellaini needs to go or at most be used as a squad player. The rest of the squad needs to wake up. Not impressive, but success takes time.

 

[NYAS]

One of the most disappointing things about it all is that he seems like he's not getting the best out of players like Martial, Rashford, Pogba and Shaw.

These guys have absolute world-class potential, can you imagine how it would be if only 2 of those 4 were playing at their highest levels consistently? Even given the complete lack of any tactical fluidity or style of play or systemic cohesion in the team, a couple of those players playing at top form would still win games for us. They would carry the whole team. That's how high their ceiling is.

It really is such a shame and right now I would give up trophies for another couple of seasons if it meant those 4 players would reach their full potential and be at United for their peaks.

 

[rollingstoned1]

I posted this in September , I have nothing to add to it.

Good post, the sense of entitlement of the fanbase juxtaposed with an unjustifiably impatient demand for being instantly gratified doesn't help matters one bit. We are going to have to support Mourinho and accept that just having him wave his nonexistent magic wand to fix things won't happen.

 

[VP89]

Where were you when LVG was getting same treatment? Also as said before last season at Chelsea happened but people here all to quick to dismiss any issues there may be with Jose!

There wasn't a numerous amount of people ruling LVG out 9 league games in.

 

[AXVnee7]

There wasn't a numerous amount of people ruling LVG out 9 league games in.

Not defending/advocating it, but people are going to have less patience with Jose because he has money to spend and has a better track record. It's not so much they'll want him out quicker, it's that they'll lose faith in him quicker

 

[ZAGREB RED]

I like him, I want him to succeed (obviously) but the early signs are not good. Not calling for him to be sacked at this point, way too early for that, but some signs of improvement need to become visible soon. Maybe it's the darkness before the dawn, I hope so.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Where were you when LVG was getting same treatment? Also as said before last season at Chelsea happened but people here all to quick to dismiss any issues there may be with Jose!

Presumably doing what most people were doing. Backing the manager until we reached a point where it was obvious he wasn't capable of winning the league. For most people it took between 12 months and 2 years to get to that stage. So what's your point?

 

[VP89]

Not defending/advocating it, but people are going to have less patience with Jose because he has money to spend and has a better track record. It's not so much they'll want him out quicker, it's that they'll lose faith in him quicker

But those same people (low on patience as they may be) should also understand that playing Liverpool (away), Fenerbache, Chelsea (away) and City sandwiched in two weeks isn't ideal for any manager.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I don't know if he is done but we never lost 4-0 at home to anyone (other than MK Dons with a shit tram) in the last 3 years. And Chelsea aren't exactly flying this season either. A loss is fine but 4-0 is too much. It maybe 10 games only but a loss like this to a fellow strugglers isn't forgivable.

I don't understand how players turn to shit suddenly. I can't remember DDG making a mistake like that ever (Closest is his handball outside the box against Chelsea in 14/15 end).

We weren't at home for either of those games you mentioned...

 

[LFC-Fans]

I see your point, but when was the last time Mourinho was a rebuild manager? He made quite a few changes when he returned to Chelsea, but that was nothing compared to what United has needed to do since SAF left. Ever since that disaster with Moyes, it's like there's ungoing overlap between one manager's squad and the next and nothing is coming together.

I agree that a rebuild is the way to go, but we had that kind of manager the last two seasons. He was disappointing in a lot of ways, while there were also positives that have been swept under the carpet. I really thought we were onto something with that young core of talent but fans were bollocking LVG's talk of 'building foundations' and now we've got Mourinho, which indicates that the club is looking to get CL birth/title contention right away, today.

So I don't think fans are resetting expectations as much as trying to deal with how poorly Mourinho has been, because he came in with the plain expectation to start winning games. Which he isn't.

He isnt a rebuild manager and that wasnt what you brought him in for. But plans change, and hes gonna have to be a rebuild manager. LvG had the right idea, but it wasnt executed well. Even as an "instant success" manager, I feel Mourinho could do a better job at rebuilding than LvG could.

As for how poor Mourinho has been. In terms of instant success? Cant say yet, but after the games we've seen, this is not how everyone envisiged your season starting. After 3/4 games I think this season, when everything seemed fine and dandy, I was saying how you're guranteed for the title. As were a lot of people, you were sitting pretty near the top.

But I really do think its just fans having to re-adjust their expectation, before a ball was kicked the names of Pogba and Zlatan and Mhik were driving fans to believe that you would win the title straight away. Well.... now you know thats not gonna happen (probably), and the process of lowering the bar is not something that is easily done. Its a process filled with hesitance "should I lower it? Should I leave it? If I leave it i may not hit he target, but then if i lower it isnt that kinda like cheating? Since im making it easier for myself" Its a process filled with anger, since you feel like you shouldnt even be in this situation to begin with.

Thats my opinion anyway, I think had Jose come in and said its going to be a long process, this season Im aiming for top four but really I just want to cement my style of football. Then fans would have more paitience. But he didnt. He came in and it seemed like he was gonna blow the league apart and return the glory days within in a blink of an eye.

 

[Changingtheories]

Ill just come back in here when we beat city, yall will be thinking a bit clearer then. .....jesus wept.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Presumably doing what most people were doing. Backing the manager until we reached a point where he could no longer claim to be building a team capable of winning the league. For most people it took between 12 months and 2 years to get to that stage. So what's your point?

He doesn't have one. 3 years of shite between Moyes and LVG yet JM gets 9 games with one terrible results becuase of a horrendous defensive/ Goal keeping mistake.

 

[Stacks]

Klopp and Conte have far more support in-place to allow them to do their jobs. Klopp and Conte are first team coaches. The depth of responsibility for Mourinho at United cannot be compared to what Klopp and Conte have to do for their clubs. Additionally, the structure surrounding Klopp and Conte is much more conducive for a coach to come in and hit the ground running. Mourinho's stepping in to a completely broken organizational structure and he has to fix that shit first.

Since you know so much on the organizational structure of all the clubs, please elaborate

 

[AXVnee7]

But those same people (low on patience as they may be) should also understand that playing Liverpool (away), Fenerbache, Chelsea (away) and City sandwiched in two weeks isn't ideal for any manager.

No of course, but there are a lot of similarities between us and last season. We're not playing great football, some players are being played out of position and it feels like a false dawn every other week. We had the 3 losses in a row, which most of us considered the wake up call, but we've been hot and cold ever since.

I may have mentioned in this thread, or another but a lot of defences being used are the same as LVG: "Time, squad of deadwood, track record etc". Now they may very be valid reasons for Jose where they weren't for LVG, but if it goes wrong people will be less likely to take these into account, given that ultimately they proved not true for LVG.

Edit: The season is still of course very very young yet, but it does still feel like Jose doesn't know his best team yet, and we seem to facing new issues every week. Bailly and Smalling looked a solid defence until today. Blind had a mare at City, but has been pretty good ever since. Rashford was initially very good on the wing, but his influence has diminished.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He doesn't have one. 3 years of shite between Moyes and LVG yet JM gets 9 games with one terrible results becuase of a horrendous defensive/ Goal keeping mistake.

We've had more than one terrible result but not many more. And no really good results. Which is depressing. Anyone writing the manager off so early in his United career is an idiot, regardless.

 

[Ramshock]

Presumably doing what most people were doing. Backing the manager until we reached a point where it was obvious he wasn't capable of winning the league. For most people it took between 12 months and 2 years to get to that stage. So what's your point?

Not 10 games in they werent

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not 10 games in they werent

Still not with you?

 

[Suedesi]

He's done, I'm sorry to say.