like father like son?
Tom Cleverley | 2010/11 Performances (on loan at Wigan)
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No he's not been linked as far as I'm aware.
Personally I'd like to see him remain with us only if we plan to fast track him to first team football. If he's not going to play, he shouldn't stay.
Doesn't sound like it's Darren's opinion, sounds like Fergie has told him that.
I wish we had options in our midfield so we could send Cleverly on loan to a premiership club where he'd be able to get games (like Wilshere is doing at Bolton). I think at his age he needs the consistency of games every week to develop, and he won't get that this year with us.
Unfortunately I can see him being kept at the club because SAF has nobody else if say Scholes and Carrick go down to injury. The fact he is a sort of utility type player means he will probably stay with us but not get enough games to really push forward his development. (and if he does, that will probably be because we've had some massive injury problems - which isn't great new either).
The lad looks a great prospect, but I think he's still a year or so away from being really ready and it would have been great to see him really battle away with a relegation team in the premier league this season to prove that he is ready for a full season with us.
Unfortunately I can see him being kept at the club because SAF has nobody else if say Scholes and Carrick go down to injury. The fact he is a sort of utility type player means he will probably stay with us but not get enough games to really push forward his development. (and if he does, that will probably be because we've had some massive injury problems - which isn't great new either).
The lad looks a great prospect, but I think he's still a year or so away from being really ready and it would have been great to see him really battle away with a relegation team in the premier league this season to prove that he is ready for a full season with us.
A top player doesn't become a top player in training.
You can't see whether a player really will make the grade unless and until he plays and realistically there's a few young lads in the squad who won't feature all that much.
Sending them to PL clubs on loan geves them a chance to play against some of the best players in the world.
It's important for young lads to be coached by the best but once you reach 18 or 19 I would guess that the club will have a very good idead of how good you'll be. At that age few average players become great or even good players if they're not equipped already.
Or suggested that. But those quotes were from a while ago now I think? Before or after his injury I dont know. Either way Sir Alex could have changed his mind by now, or especially now he has to sort out his squad numbers.
Let me be clear on what I really mean when it comes to where young players will go, SAF does not even what SAF is going to do. He has to speak with the player first, then from there things can change. The next thing you know, he is playing in Spain with us as first option for buy back
Personally I think he's ready. Playing in the championship isn't playing in the reserves. He played most weeks baring the injury and was their best player. That experience you can take anywhere because your not playing against kids and again i'm not sure what this premiership experience is. When the whistle blows a game of footballs a game of fooball. It's not tom cleverly vs the premiership.
We had big crowds in america. We had big crowds in the frendlies hes featured in including valencia where he scored.
If you had experience round him, I don't see the issue because we train our kids the 'united' way. The youth play the united way. Everyone works hard. The championship is still a good division. I'm not getting this 'premiership experience talk at all'. If you play a midfield of kids, then there is a cause for concern but he needs a year at a premiership club? I don't know what it proves and I don't think we're that well stocked we can't give him games.
One or two injuries in the midfield and people are whistling a different tune. I can understand the diouf and welbeck talk inspite of impressing because of the numbers, but I don't think we have the numbers in midfield and certainly they're not all stamping their authority in games
Sending Rossi out to Newcastle was disastrous. He had a bad time of it and we ended up selling him for a vastly undervalued price.
But sending Evans to Sunderland turned out to be brilliant.
You can't rule out loan moves just because of bad experiences in the past.
So just because he 'could' play there, he's an option that we should keep? Have you seen him play in the middle then? He plays out wide for Watford bar some games where they had injury crisis, he plays out wide whenever he plays with the first team, he plays out wide too for the reserves and the same goes for England sides he's been involved in. He could play there, but if SAF is planning on him playing there, surely he would have played some game on in the friendlies in the middle for us.
It would be a waste to see him restricted when his game is all about the movement. With the movement he's shown, it suits him better to play out wide IMO, or just in front of the CMs. He could do a job as the 3rd CM I guess, but we only play that way in the important games, and he wouldn't get much playing time for those kind of games.
Gibson? Probably not yet. But as an option, he's good enough for now. In the limited amount he's played, he's shown flashes here and there. To me, he has the tools already, far better on the ball than Fletcher was and more confident with his passing. He just need to show his presence more, be more involved because right now he seems like a passenger most of the time.
And what's your point? You think being behind the likes of Nani, Park, Giggs and Valencia for the wings option and behind the likes of Scholes, Carrick, Fletcher, Gibson, Giggs would prepare him to take over from those three that might be gone next season? That's why people are saying he should go on loan to a team where he would get games because staying with us, he would be behind a lot of players and that wouldn't be good for his development unless SAF intends to blood him in this coming season by giving him games.
He looks ready, but we have a lot of options out wide. 6 months on loan would be good for him and us if he gets regular playing time. After that we can decide what to do.
Wan, cleverly did play in the middle for us in a game this pre-season. Cant remember the opposition, but he played very, very well. Hes a very creative player and i actually believe his future is in the middle of the park, not the wing.
Didn't he play in the middle against the MLS.
Yes! i think thats the one! And that was our best performance of the tour.
I'm not entirely sure if he played the whole game there as I didn't manage to catch that game but when i watched the extended highlights on ESPN (approx 30mins) he seemed to be in the middle and he certainly scored his goal from that position.
You make it sound like he can only play one position. He's versatile which is valuable. You know Valencia plays midfield for Equador sometimes? you know that? Just dropping that in there. We're not tied down or rigid and if you've not seen him in midfield. So what? No one saw Scholes in midfield as a kid cause he was a striker. Just because he didn't start in midfield, it didn't stop him coming central did it? If he can come inside and offer a threat - that's a good thing. You can't try everything in four games.....and we saw with fletcher and gibson - both were played wide when they were first introduced
I know why people said he'd go on loan but that's silly. A week in and we might have injuries. We don't have a big pool of midfielders to pick. The fact is according to you he's a winger, now I don't care if he goes out on loan for 6 months to a year he ain't coming back and outing nani or valencia is he...he would still have a problem.
I'm sure Sir Alex would have made neville a centre back but he was too small so he ended up full back. There are lots of examples where it's the quality of the person that makes them, like O'shea in midfield. If you give tom a licence to roam forward with someone protecting behind him, I don't see a problem. It's not like Tom gets a nose bleed when he's central and because of his running he offers a threat. He's confident now. I don't think going to newcastle and doing well will make him more confident.
He's not saying, feck! I wish that best player of the year was for a premiership club. It don't matter who it was for. Footballs a simple game made complicated yes by Sir Alex at times hehe. I don't want o'shea in midfield but theres a chance it will happen and it's better to bed someone in now who can benefit from scholes and giggs advice.
If Tom went on loan, he'd miss that. If they retire at the end of the season, you get a player thrown into the squad when he could have had a season benefiting from our two biggest legends. I think Tom would rather stay here and fight personally
if he did play middle, I doubt it matters to some people as they seem to think he can't play there. They seem to think if he went midfield, he'd crumble
He'd thrive in the middle. Has all the atributes needed.if he did play middle, I doubt it matters to some people as they seem to think he can't play there. They seem to think if he went midfield, he'd crumble
The one game he played centrally he played far too much ahead of Scholes and our midfield was overrun. His best game was when he played wide and could drift in and link with the strikers.
I don't see the argument against loans as long as they are playing regularly.
I don't see the argument against loans as long as they are playing regularly.
You base that on a game. A game. One game. We've played 4 in pre season and didn't dominate celtic or the wizards. The mls all stars one we pretty much dominatesd but certainly not the last one. It could be that it would have worked better with fletcher. I mean let's face it if we played two in midfield, we wouldn't play Carrick and Gibson would we. Combinations clearly important and if we're over run with a two man midfield it's usually a case of putting an extra body in the midfield or a forward dropping deep to support. It's a team game.
My argument is he's ready (from the outside lookig in), we have to plan now for the future and if Tom played and kept Scholes and Giggs on the bench, believe me they'd have no complaints and neither would we and also I don't believe we've the depth - certainly not in quality some would have us believe.
Agree I hope we keep him, surely with the Carling cup and FA cup he should see some action and maybe if he does OK SAF will throw him into some an odd PL or CL game like Gibson got. Also depends on injuries, as last year we had some shocking ones in defence so almost anyone would have got a game so maybe he'd get a break that way.
Definitely has been one of the best players on the tour along with Welbeck, no doubt about that. Young players don't improve without game time and we've probably let a few go who if got minutes in the first team could have turned out decent. Its not like we're buying loads of mature players this summer so why not throw a few kids in the mix, we've done it before and its paid off. Cesc Fabregas at Arsenal and some of the others didn't get better by being constantly loaned out or sitting in the stands.
that's his name. It's also shorter then typing cleverly. It's something that I didn't give much thought too. But I guess that's not something you can just google you spasticated fool?
If i were you i would think less about the impression you make on the net and more about real life. It seems to matter to you. IMVHO.This is talk about a United youngster. That's your contribution and you call me that lol. C'mon Pogue.
No you tool, I was responding to a post that said he played very well in central midfield in one game.
I don't see what the rush to convert him into a central midfielder is. He's best at the moment in an attacking role. In the future he may end up there but at present a wide position or an attsacking midfield role suits him better.
SAF is one of the best at developing young players and I'll go by his judgement. If he determines a loan deal would be most beneficial, then so be it.
You don't see the rush? Oh ok. That's cause he's an attacking player. An attacking midfielder role ...do you mean a central role? That's what we've been discussing.....
When you talk about conversion, your talking about a 21 year old not someone in his prime or has a 'defined' career. It's stranger people saying Rooney can play midfield never mind Cleverly (thats for you pogue) who hasn't found his best posiition in OUR team never mind anyone elses
To be honest, I've nothing to add on the topic at hand. Already made my point a while back and there's a few others also talking sense since, to which you seem completely oblivious.that's his name. It's also shorter then typing cleverly. It's something that I didn't give much thought too. But I guess that's not something you can just google you spasticated fool?
This is talk about a United youngster. That's your contribution and you call me that lol. C'mon Pogue.
The "tom" thing just seemed strange, that's all. Combined with the weird use of present tense, rhetorical questions and second person in all your posts means it's hard to focus on whatever point you're actually trying to make. All a bit odd really.
I know that pogue but let me ask you this. People talk about players being ready. Forget what Sir Alex thinks or says. I'm asking you. In your opinion, do you look at Gibson and think he's ready?....Pogue I never payed attention in English. I type much too quick and don't spell check. Basically I don't care enough but you'll see I don't point people out and call them odd.....
My stance is the kids are our future and that's it. That's why I'm pro kids. I've stong opinions, piss people off but it's the net. I'm 'nicer' in person. I can't help that. I can't help my shite English either.
He's not going to put Giggs and Scholes on the bench in the next 8-9 months is he? fecking hell.
Didn't you also say we should sell Carrick and through Pogba straight into the first team recently? I'll have some of what you're smoking please.
You think they'll play 50 games this season? I don't and I don't think Sir Alex would want that. Players like Cleverly..are the future and scholes and giggs ain't. These are who we have to somehow replace. Gibson put carrick on the bench. Who would have thought that before last season? Who would have thought it'd be Gibson playing against Munich?He's not going to put Giggs and Scholes on the bench in the next 8-9 months is he? fecking hell.
Didn't you also say we should sell Carrick and through Pogba straight into the first team recently? I'll have some of what you're smoking please.
The second point like my taglines a joke. No I did not. I was talking about Pogba and speculated if he has a chance in the cup he'd impress - I also said if you impress your in the mind of the manager and people put it all together. I said sell Carrick yes...it's not controversial. At a time where we're looking to replace scholes and giggs, Carrick has lost his automatic choice status.
It was also to point out the talent in our squad and I said we didn't have to buy anyone. I could have mentioned a fair few players who have the potential to save the club money and who have the potential to be united players. I could have mentioned Tunnicliffe who is a very good player. He's a tackler but I didn't. Or Cleverly but the depth of 'talent' is here and talent is talent anywhere. We obsess about other clubs talent putting down our own
You can go overboard, it's true...but it don't happen. You don't see people saying let's promote the whole youth team hehe. We just have a talented group
I'd like to keep the lads here until January and play them in the Carling Cup. After than I don't mind loaning them out to Blackpool since they have a very thin squad and they'd be sure enough to start games regularly.
Everyone and his dog knew Gibson and Fletcher was a central midfielder who gets game out wide to get experience. Scholes was an exception. He won't play too many games in the middle for us or anyone else when we play with 4 in midfield(2 in the middle). Gibson can although right now it doesn't look pretty, but he's capable of playing there since he's a CM by trade. Cleverley plays out wide mainly.
In a year, Scholes, Giggs, Hargreaves might not be there. And with EPL games under his belt, he would be better prepared to fight it out then for a spot. With us he might not get a chance at all bar one or two games. He needs game time. Is it that hard to understand that bit?
Scholes, Fletcher, Gibson, Carrick, Giggs, Anderson, O'Shea.. Hargreaves when he gets a new pair of leg. He would be behind them all.
They'll play 30 each at least injuries permitting, and they won't be "kept on the bench" by Cleverly.
Nani, Valencia, Carrick, Park and Fletcher are capable of playing 50 each. Ditto Berbatov and our other strikers (we usually play 442). He is also still behind Obertan and Gibson in the pecking order whether you agree or like it or not. And behind Anderson, who I am sure will be available for 30 or so games this season.
Gibson "put Carrick on the bench" for what, 3 games, as a punishment for Carrick's atrocious mistakes against Bayern to cap a truly awful season. It's not a particularly meaningful event.
Re: Pogba, you definitely, 100% said we should sell Carrick this summer and throw Pogba into league games. I find it hilarious you are saying keep Cleverly for the season as we are short in the squad, but you want to sell Carrick. By hilarious I mean spasticated.
If a suitable loan move isn't found then he will get a few appearances here, and fewer really meaningful ones. If there is a loan move which offers him 30+ games a season as an important player for a PL side then that is obviously preferable, and it's not even close. Such a move might not exist, but the avenue most definitely needs to be explored.
I don't really know why I've bothered replying in such detail as previous conversations with you have shown that it's like talking to a brick wall, and you've already basically admitted that you're a WUM.
shit it'll take an age. I want to make something clear to you. I've not paid attention to your posts and so bringing up a post of mine that's not even to do with this, is kinda dumb of you. It puts me at a disadvantage and you expect me to respond to your points?
Here's a suggestion. Stick to the topic. I'd certainly be able to read your reply on the subject a bit easier. I might even respond to it. As it is, I don't think I can be arsed. All I can say is time will tell and it's not about being right or wrong. It's opinion. But I know if you were wrong, you wouldn't be big enough to admit it. you like many would continue to act the gimp in other threads. You just seem to think you have a point and you don't, because I didn't read it.
that's his name. It's also shorter then typing cleverly. It's something that I didn't give much thought too. But I guess that's not something you can just google you spasticated fool?
This is talk about a United youngster. That's your contribution and you call me that lol. C'mon Pogue.
No, it's quite valid.
You think Pogba (and you praised yourself for restraining from mentioning Tunnicliffe) should be picked ahead of Carrick.
LIKEWISE, you think Cleverly can force Scholes and Giggs (not to mention Berbatov, Park, Anderson, Obertan...) onto the bench. In the next 9 months.
You live in a dream world. I've given up trying to make you realise or admit it, I'm posting to discredit you in front of other posters. I'm very happy for you to not respond, it'll save me having to unravel your bizarrely twisted logic yet again.
Your best contribution to the site? It can't be far off
praised myself? You fecking nut lol. No I can talk about the youth because I watch the youth like a lot of people. According to you I said sell Carrick, didn't I, therefore he'd clearly be ahead of him as Carrick wouldn't be here....
I don't even know why your talking about berbatov, obertan...They're not even midfielders. I've an open mind to things. Is that wrong? You don't. I doubt you've an original thought in your head. Why would Cleverly FORCE berbatov on the bench? That's so fecking weird I didn't even mention that. Whoops, you DO have an original thought.
This dream world is a thread and the usual suspects act like retards. Some are worse then others. We're all united fans and yet some have to act like dickheads because they are and it ends in personal attacks which is just so lame. When we sold Kanchelskis, Hughes and Ince I bet you were saying the same shite but we have a manager who you just don't know what he will do.
Obertan is a wide midfielder/winger/whatever. One of Cleverly's roles. We usually play 442 (i fecking e, no attacking midfielder in the hole, one of the roles Cleverly is being touted for)
I can't even begin to reply to your opening line because it's so bizarre.
You're crazy in the coconut.
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