MENManchester United youngster Tom Thorpe admits he needs first team football to continue his development.
The defender has long been seen as an exciting prospect at the club and excelled this season as reserve team captain, but has been largely overlooked by Louis van Gaal.
A solitary appearance for the senior side - as an 89th minute substitute in the September win over West Ham - does not come close to the 1022 and 633 minutes that fellow defenders Paddy McNair (20) and Tyler Blackett (21) have managed respectively this season.
Thorpe believes the opportunities his teammates have been given are a positive, but is in no doubt about what he needs to improve.
"Seeing them play in the first team makes you feel like you could get a chance," he said. "It does give you a confidence boost and you just have to work hard.
"I think the next stage is obviously first team football.
"That's clear for anyone - the fact that I've played in the reserves for a while, I've captained the reserves - so naturally that's the next step for me to take.
"You have conversations with your coach and your manager and you want to know your thoughts on how they see you and where they see you fitting into the team."
An FA Youth Cup winner four years ago who has long been part of the England youth set-up, Thorpe's lack of opportunities at United - particularly in a season where defensive injuries have been plenty - has perplexed regular watchers of the reserves side.
Yet given the nature of the youth policy at Old Trafford - Blackett and McNair got their chance from staying while Michael Keane's loan to Burnley was made permanent - Thorpe is wary about a temporary move in the search for first-team football.
"I think it would be [an option] because it is naturally the next step you need to take," Thorpe told M.E.N Sport.
"At a club like United you don't necessarily want to be trying to force yourself out of the window on loan because you want to see where your opportunity might lie."
Van Gaal's policy of using the Under-21 games as part of first team players' recovery from injury has helped results. As United face City at Old Trafford on Tuesday knowing that victory could see them claim the league title, skipper Thorpe has enjoyed playing alongside the likes of Phil Jones and Jonny Evans.
"They're more than willing to give you advice. You can talk to them about anything, they're very approachable. It can only be beneficial.
"It can just be a certain game situation, how to handle different teams and the way they play, strikers...things like that.
"Everyone is working for each other, it gives great experience for the younger lads playing with those kind of players."
Tom Thorpe
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Does he not get a chance on loan because no one wants hom, or because he's too important to the reserve side/backup for first team?
LvG has completely overlooked him this season really
LvG has completely overlooked him this season really
Nobody know the reason.
Anyway I heard he hasn't been given a new deal so it will remain a mystery forever.
His contract is up in the summer, right? Not looking good.
Its a joke the way he was handled. He'd outgrown the reserves 2 years ago yet we just let him rot there. He'll be a great signing for any Championship side and I fully expect to see him in the PL in a few years.
Like that Malaysian flight, mysterious and tragic
If we have nothing to play for against Hull then he must be in the squad.
Don't bother Sean. The dream is over!!!
Seriously though I feel genuinely disappointed at how the club handled this one. Based on his improvement and performances at the time if we sent him on loan 1/2 years ago we could be looking at a potential first team player at this point.
Seriously though I feel genuinely disappointed at how the club handled this one. Based on his improvement and performances at the time if we sent him on loan 1/2 years ago we could be looking at a potential first team player at this point.
Same.
So nobody is reading anything into him being made captain of the U-21s?
Just seems strange to me to make someone a skipper who is completely surplus to requirements.
Just seems strange to me to make someone a skipper who is completely surplus to requirements.
He was captain when he left, I think he was captain the last two seasons before as well.
I'm a fan, wish he'd get a shot at CB, miles better than Blackett.
I'm a fan, wish he'd get a shot at CB, miles better than Blackett.
This is true. You have to wonder if him and/or Michael Keane are victims of Van Gaal's weird obsession with symmetry.
He has been captain for a few years.Doesn't mean anything much beside proving his leadership capability.
He's been captain for yonks. Doesn't really mean anything about his prospects.
EDIT: Original point of view, that one.
We should organise a kickstarter thing for him
He'll have plenty of suitors.No worries about that.
I was a big fan of Keane but I'll admit as soon as he got into the first team he shat his pants(Even in Pre Season). And the odd times I've some highlights of Burnley games he's not been great. Kind of makes the whole predicting youth players pretty pointless.
Danny Rose was reserve team captain when we sent him on loan to Oxford and then released him at the end of the year. Doesn't mean much other than that he probably has a good attitude and speaks up for himself.
He's 22 and he's played 7 professional football matches. If he gets a regular game in the Championship then I'll even consider that a miracle. His handling has been outrageous, and indicative of the blasé way in which we've managed our reserve side in recent years.
One season at U21 level is enough. After that, either make the move into the first team or go on loan for the season, at a level appropriate enough to ensure the player can get a solid 30-40 professional matches under the belt.
Far too many young British footballers are failed by the system and Thorpe is one of them.
I think he'll easily get games in the Championship. He cake walks the u21s and has been capped at all youth levels for England. Lee Clark also spoke highly of him in his short time at Brummie. He's clearly got the talent and loads of Championship clubs will be looking for his signature on a free and once there his talent will force his way onto the team sheet.
I hope someone like Derby goes for him.He's good enough for a bottom PL club but it would be too risky for his career to move to these sort of clubs.He should take the Matt James/Brady route to get to the PL.
Hoping we insert a buy back clause into any deal that sees him leaving this summer.
Much better defender than McNair right now, and much better already than Blackett ever will be. Should have got a chance ahead of those two.
You say this despite not having watched him play a single minute against Premier League opposition. Interesting.
I have no idea how anyone can watch him and Blackett regularly and then pick Blackett above him. This whole left foot right foot thing is an absolute joke, defenders should be picked on how well they can defend
Well considering that Blackett is abysmal at U21 level it's not really a hard thing to say.
I say this having watched them all for the U21's. Tom to me always looked a much better defender than those two. I don't know how am I over the line in suggesting that he is a better defender than McNair right now.
As for Blackett, I'll take any bet on it.
Maybe he means he's much better looking?
Seriously though the McNair promotion over him was obviously an LVG thing. I wont even go into the Blackett situation. The bit that utterly confuses me is that Thorpe's strong points are also what Id have thought LVG would have been after. Now add in our chronic run of injuries at the back and him not getting a single run out is what makes it so annoying.
I really would have liked to see could he bring his calmness and assured style through to the first team, or at least be given a chance to.
Quite possibly and he's vindicated the manager's judgement with some excellent performances against PL opponents (some crap ones too but that's to be expected with someone that young) I'm as bemused as anyone by Blackett's promotion (has to be his weird obssession with a "balance" of right vs left footed players) but McNair's done very well for the first team and it's bananas that people are making claims about Thorpe being better than McNair is right now when he's not even been properly tested. Everyone's a scout these days.Maybe he means he's much better looking?
Seriously though the McNair promotion over him was obviously an LVG thing. I wont even go into the Blackett situation. The bit that utterly confuses me is that Thorpe's strong points are also what Id have thought LVG would have been after. Now add in our chronic run of injuries at the back and him not getting a single run out is what makes it so annoying.
I really would have liked to see could he bring his calmness and assured style through to the first team, or at least be given a chance to.
I'd agree with him though. Thorpe has been consistently much better than either at U21 level. What reason is there to expect him to make the step up so much worse than either?
Anyway, I think that ship has long sailed, so it's all academic. For the sake of his career he needs to get himself playing senior football somewhere asap.
Aren't they both better athletes, though? Stronger and quicker. Details like that can make a big difference when a young defender finds himself up against top flight strikers for the first time.
Anyway, like you say, its a moot point. I just find it strange when people on here have definitive opinions about U21/U18 players that are so at odds with the coaching staff. Making accurate predictions about youngsters is notoriously difficult and nobody knows the potential of these young players better than the people who work with them every day.
Ive always been a huge fan of Thorpe and expected him to get a chance before either of the others but I dont think hes actually been better than McNair for the u21s this season. When McNair has dropped down to the u21s hes looked extremely comfortable and looked like a senior player dropping down
Agreed. There's not been much difference in quality between their respective performances for the u21s this season, and so it makes sense to promote the likelier long-term first-teamer, which, as much as I rate Thorpe, has to be the considerably younger, rapidly progressing McNair.
I dont think so, Keane was given chances and played quite badly at the start of LVGs reign. Blackett was really excellent back then.
Thorpe doesn't seem to have got the chance
Good point.
Would be very interesting to see which club will win the race to sign him this summer.
Reading the Barnsley forum and there is a guy on there who says he knows Lee Johnson and they're after a 22 year old defender from us which would be Tom Thorpe. He mentioned on loan though so I'm not sure about that. I'm hoping Thorpe can find a Championship club anyway, he's too good for League One. Lee Johnson tried to sign him on loan a couple years ago for Oldham and was in for Pearson for Oldham as well. Apparently he's talked about the great players that you can get on loan from us so we might see them coming in for someone else on loan next season.
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