Toni Kroos

Adisa

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Can't find a recent thread on him and R al Madrid are the hot topic right now so why not.
To call his 18 months in Madrid "meh" will be an understatement IMO. He just hasn't reached the heights I thought he would reach. I don't think his form is all his own fault. For the vast majority of his time in Madrid, he has been the deepest midfielder with the most defensive responsibility which is just scandalous. He hasn't been given the platform to perform. I know Modric must play cause he is just ridiculous and one of the attackers will be sacrificed if Rafa were to pursue balance.
Either him or Modric has to go IMO.
 

fcbforever

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Can't find a recent thread on him and R al Madrid are the hot topic right now so why not.
To call his 18 months in Madrid "meh" will be an understatement IMO. He just hasn't reached the heights I thought he would reach. I don't think his form is all his own fault. For the vast majority of his time in Madrid, he has been the deepest midfielder with the most defensive responsibility which is just scandalous. He hasn't been given the platform to perform. I know Modric must play cause he is just ridiculous and one of the attackers will be sacrificed if Rafa were to pursue balance.
Either him or Modric has to go IMO.
He had very good spells of form, he's just not consistent imo.

But yeah, if he wants to be the standout player for an international top team, he has to move. United and Arsenal being the most obvious choices, even possibly a return to Munich.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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He and Modric works well together, the problem is they don't have a class DM behind them to anchor the midfield/defense and the front 3 in front of them are useless defensively.

None of this matters, of course. Everybody pointed out what a wrong move this is for him.
 

Balu

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But yeah, if he wants to be the standout player for an international top team, he has to move. United and Arsenal being the most obvious choices, even possibly a return to Munich.
I'm not sure 1860's sugardaddy is rich enough to finance that move to the annoying, blue side of Munich.
 

Balu

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Would Bayern want him back?
I doubt it, but who knows if he becomes available for a rather low price. I'm pretty sure he'll stay around though. Zidane regularly praises him, I think he's much more respected by the coaches than loved by the fans or rated by the media.
 

HabeasC

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A midfield three of Martinez (if he ever goes back to MF), Thiago and Kroos has the potential to be perfectly balanced.

On the other hand Kroos-schneiderlin-Herrera could be pretty dreamy too.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Maybe I don't watch him closely enough but he seems to lack a bit of authority to me. Modric runs the midfield like he owns that area. I understand that you can't have two guys essentially doing the same thing and one has to be the more pro-active one but Madrid become too reliant on Modric, and Kroos just always seems fairly happy being fairly passive.
 

PedroMendez

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Madrid use him in a really weird way. If he has to play next to Modric behind 4 attacking players, those 4 attacking players have to press really well or he becomes a burden. Additionally Kroos often looks complacent. He needs a manager, who is both putting trust in him, but who also pushes him from time to time.
 

Bojan11

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Him and Modric were brilliant in that win streak before the winter break.

I don't think both have been as good since then. Modric has been injured a bit. Kroos has had to partner Ramos at times.
 

arthurka

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Use Schweinsteiger for couple of years and slide in for Kroos..
Every team needs a German in it..
 

ferguson2

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In a team that relies on ball possession, Kroos would be great. With Benitez as (ex-)coach you can't see a clear tactical approach.
In Madrid under Ancelotti and at Bayern under Heynckes Kroos was outstanding in midfield.

He's not spectacular but reliable. If such a player gets available we should be all over him.
 

Theonas

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Football has become more tactical oriented than ever. Teams are working more and more on movement and positioning which makes it almost impossible to evaluate the true worth of players. Great players can be made to look average on a platform that isn't helpful and not so great players can be made to look better than what they are in a well functioning team. This is especially the case for defenders and midfielders. Back in the days of straight lines, it was quite obvious if a midfielder is good or not but now, it really is very easy for top players to go missing when faced with a team as tactically perfect as say Barcelona or Bayern and vice versa, those teams move and position themselves so well that their players find it that bit easier to blossom.
 

Bwuk

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Kroos is one of the best technicians in the game at the moment. Fantastic player.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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He's a lot like an AM being asked to play in a more deeper play-making role and like we experienced with Herrera there it doesn't always work unless you have 2 other defensively aware players behind him for him to show his strengths in the final 3rd.
 

Cassidy

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He's a lot like an AM being asked to play in a more deeper play-making role and like we experienced with Herrera there it doesn't always work unless you have 2 other defensively aware players behind him for him to show his strengths in the final 3rd.
Pretty sure Herreras best games for us has come in a CM 2 with Carrick...
With Kroos I'm just not sure about him, he is missing something to be amougst the very best CMs
 

NK86

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He is still very young for the type of CM role which Madrid want him to perform - to anchor the MF and being the one to pull the strings from deep. Most great players in that area generally developed a proper understanding of the requirement of the role once they reached their late 20s.

Kroos has all the tools in his locker to own that position and be the best there for years to come and it will come with a little more experience IMO.
 

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Great player. A long term replacement for Bastian if he were ever to leave Madrid.

In terms of balance, he and Modric aren't the greatest midfield pair in the world. They'd work better with some protection in behind them.
 

bucky

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Great player. A long term replacement for Bastian if he were ever to leave Madrid.

In terms of balance, he and Modric aren't the greatest midfield pair in the world. They'd work better with some protection in behind them.
They've worked just fine with Isco and James wide last year.
 

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Pretty sure Herreras best games for us has come in a CM 2 with Carrick...
With Kroos I'm just not sure about him, he is missing something to be amougst the very best CMs
No his best games came as one of the 4 AMs in a 4-1-4-1 ahead of Carrick during last season's impressive win steak. That run lasted about as long as Carrick was fit and teams hadn't sniffed out Fellaini.
 

Bob Loblaw

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Maybe I don't watch him closely enough but he seems to lack a bit of authority to me. Modric runs the midfield like he owns that area. I understand that you can't have two guys essentially doing the same thing and one has to be the more pro-active one but Madrid become too reliant on Modric, and Kroos just always seems fairly happy being fairly passive.
Came in to same the same thing. He's fantastic technically but sometimes it's frustrating how nonplussed he seems. Biggest fault of his is definitely being happy to let the game pass him by.

Still a great player though, and like others said I don't think Madrid's set up suits him. His lack of athleticism isn't suited to a 2 man midfield (and the amount of defensive works he's forced to do hinders the rest of his game).
 

amolbhatia50k

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Came in to same the same thing. He's fantastic technically but sometimes it's frustrating how nonplussed he seems. Biggest fault of his is definitely being happy to let the game pass him by.

Still a great player though, and like others said I don't think Madrid's set up suits him. His lack of athleticism isn't suited to a 2 man midfield (and the amount of defensive works he's forced to do hinders the rest of his game).
Yeah, again, Madrid fans are obviously in a better position to judge but given he's not exactly great defensively I think ideally he should naturally be more proactive to compensate. Generally midfielders who play that way tend to be better screeners of the defence i.e Alonso, Carrick, Busquets and the like. I guess he's just more suited to a midfield three, as you say, since he can't change his nature.
 

thepolice123

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Not a player you would want on your team when you come up against teams you can't dominate. He was a passenger yesterday.
 

ManUchosenbosslvg

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Great player. A long term replacement for Bastian if he were ever to leave Madrid.

In terms of balance, he and Modric aren't the greatest midfield pair in the world. They'd work better with some protection in behind them.
I think this could well happen in the near future, Kroos isn't dynamic or the best natural athlete but with the amount of possession we've been having he'd be awesome at dictating games for us from a deep position.

some stats from the recent Euro qualification groups:
Passes attempted
1058: Toni Kroos, Germany
745: Sergio Busquets, Spain
730: Wesley Sneijder, Netherlands

Passes completed
1007: Toni Kroos, Germany
721: Sergio Busquets, Spain
668: Leonardo Bonucci, Italy

Something ridiculous like a 95% pass success over so many games, obviously there were a few pigeons in the group but still he's so far ahead.
 

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Great player but he lacks a bit of passion and is selling himself short at the moment. Used to be great at firing long distance missiles, but from his number 6 position he hardly has a go nowadays...all he does is spray balls across the pitch. Needs an attitude readjustment in order to fulfill reach his full potential. When he does there won't be a better player in his position.

I'd never waste him in defensive midfield but put him centrally behind the strikers.
 

PedroMendez

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We also played horrible, ineffective crap in most matches
He played a good WC (not fantastic, but solid overall) and has been one of our best players during the qualifiers. He is imo much better for Germany than for Real. Not a surprise so, because he usually is the midfield focal point, while Modric plays this role for Madrid. He played well for Madrid, when Isco and James played infront of him and hustled to opposition.

I still don´t see him as defensive midfielder/anchor. He is imo fairly underrated as #10.
 

RedStarUnited

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Madrid have too many attackers and one of them (Ronaldo) doesn't defend. Kroos is no DM and neither is Modric.
 

NoPace

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A midfield of Schneiderlin deep, Kroos as the 8 and Herrera alongside him but always looking to press and get forward would be fanfeckinstastic.

Great players have and will continue to get chewed out by the Madrid machine.
 

El Zoido

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He's sort of dropped off the radar at Madrid. Before he went there he was one of the hottest talents in football, now you barely hear a mention of him. I don't blame him for being a victim of the Madrid circus.
 

VorZakone

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Always thought he is better at #10. Played there in 12/13 before he got injured.
 

Pexbo

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Scholes:

"To appreciate Kroos you have to understand that he is not an all-action midfielder. I just see him as a team player. A footballer who keeps the ball. When I spoke to scouts about him their criticism of him was, ‘Ah, but he’s no good without the ball’. My response was, ‘How do you know? He’s never off the ball’. He is one of those players who just always seems to have it."


At the time I remember thinking that was quite a clever quirk. Little did I realise it would soon become evident that it was probably a serious reply.
 

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I believe Real Madrid often wants the name rather than the player. They also tend to think they can put a player into a role they think will fit the player based on their looks or stereotype. If you take a guy like the danish guy Gravesen for example, by appearance a tough guy who will dominate midfield with tackles and scare the hell out of players. Real Madrid wanted him to be some sort of defensive force. In reality he's an attacking midfielder. This also happened to Yaya Toure in Barcelona. And when they have the perfect fit they normally send them away (Makelele).

This has happened on several occasions. Van der Vaart who was played as a winger when he's more of a central player, Robben, and now Kroos. I'm also wondering if Bale is used in the wrong way, because he's often involved in the build up play a lot more, likes to carry the ball and fire off from a distance or tries to break through the defense. Now he's used in the same way as Ronaldo but with a little bit less freedom to operate (and of course only given the ball if Ronaldo is tying his shoes).

This is not our problem at all. I think it's fine they get these players without the need for them. The player they really need would not cost enough nor have the correct name.
 

Balu

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If Pep deems a midfielder surplus, hard to argue against it
He didn't, he wanted to keep him. It was a mix of Kroos wanting to leave/demanding very high wages which the board at Bayern never were willing to give him. Kroos was never loved at Bayern nor did he really love the club. It was a very odd relationship and many Bayern fans claim we wouldn't have won the CL in 12/13 if Kroos didn't get injured, which forced Heynckes to start Robben and play Ribery, Müller, Robben behind Mandzukic. I disagree with that strongly but I'm definitely in the minority with that opinion.