He did, but that's due to lack of quality around more than it being because of his qualities, and tbf people seem to care less about lyrics now than they used to.
Music Top five rappers all time
- Thread starter Sally Cinnamon
- Start date
There's obviously artists which there are gulfs in talent between - Nas vs Lil Pump for example.
But the issue I personally have with these kind of debates is that lyricism is used as the only category which makes someone a great rapper.
I understand in the 80s & 90s, that was pretty much the foundation of hip-hop, but even in those times - rappers were defining themselves in different ways, NWA, Public Enemy, TCQ, Slick Rick etc, didn't rely on being the best lyricists.
That's why I find it pretty pointless because to me, these lists read as 'Top 5 lyricists of all time', but rap is so much more than just lyrics, that's my opinion.
While that is true most of those who weren't great lyrically could at least tell a story that made their songs interesting imo.
Na i disagree, even on Drake's best album he got out rapped by Kendrick, i would go as far as saying the best track in terms of pure rapping on that album was buried alive.
In terms of rapping Drake hasn't been better than Kendrick in any year.
If you want to talk about singing and making pop music (his overall package) than yeah he dominated music in that respect.
But this is what i'm saying - surely a big part of being a rapper is being able to tell a story, while still making it rhyme?
Juicy is classic for this very reason - lyrically it's basic, but technically it's descriptive, you relate to what he's saying, you put yourself in his shoes, and you want to be involved.
Today was a good day, another great example.
Almost all of Slick Rick's songs too.
Storytelling is just one aspect.
The witty technical rappers - in the ilk of Jay-Z is another great part of being a good rapper.
We could go on and on, yet these things only seem to give credit to the rappers who are great at rappity-rapping, and the culture is so rich and varied, that these lists always end up being so limiting and predictable.
That's my biggest frustration with these things.
He has stolen a lot more than 1% of his rhymes whether it was from Biggie pac Nas or whoever
If we're talking strictly lyrics, then Tupac should be nowhere near the top 10.
But his impact on hip-hop cannot be beaten, he was the introduction to hip-hop for a generation of people globally, and for that reason you can't not call him one of the best rappers ever.
But lyrically? He's above average at best.
But his impact on hip-hop cannot be beaten, he was the introduction to hip-hop for a generation of people globally, and for that reason you can't not call him one of the best rappers ever.
But lyrically? He's above average at best.
Yeah can't disagree with most of what you said here, but when rating the very best rappers you look at the technical ability, delivery, and storytelling imo, that's why I chose Lupe as my best rapper outside of those said in the OP, and that's why it seems boring and generic because there mostly agreement on who are the tier 1 rappers who can rhyme and be interesting at the same time, ie Tech N9ne is good and can rhyme, but you don't see anyone putting him at tier 1.
That's where I disagree, because what you're doing is describing the best lyricists.
Lupe is a good rapper, but when I consider the whole package - he's incredibly unstable, his discography is all over the place and he seems to be very guarded when it comes to fan engagement etc.
Can't deny that he's one of the best lyricists ever though.
Similarly with Andre 3k - personally my favourite lyricist, but I can't consider him seperately to Outkast, because he's openly refusing to be a solo rapper, and do the occasional feature only.
Same thing with Jay Elec - brilliant lyricist, deserves to be on these lists, but we've been waiting a decade for an album.
You get the idea.
I also struggle to believe that a lot these rappers that most people are listing, are what people still listen to - it reads like a list of rappers that people feel obliged to list, but that's a separate conversation to be had.
Point is, it would be great to see some variety and differing opinions when it comes to these things, but it always comes down to the same criteria.
You'll never find anyone with a perfect discography though.
I never said you would, but to be among the best at something, you have to be consistent, right? Something that the original 5 omitted rappers in the OP were good at.
In any other category a combination of consistency, accolades & performance at the highest level are what distinguishes your Messi's from your Payets for example.
The only thing that seem to be considered when it comes to these lists is the ability to rhyme.
Really? Nas Discography is very inconsistent, just take a look at it, so is Eminem's especially after his 3rd Album, Jay-Z is possibly the most consistent out of those but I don't really like most of his songs, also Biggie had 2 albums, that's not a discography that we can shout about.
You're only talking about discography, I'm suggesting that there are plenty of other considerations when you're thinking of the best rappers, for some reason you've focused on my critique of Lupe's discography when there are so many more things stopping him from being considered a top 10 rapper of all time, imo.
But I would have him as a top 10 lyricist.
it's because you brought up the discography thing, anyway there's no 2 people who'll ever agree on music so let's leave it at that.
The problem with these threads is everyone just names their favourites.
It's the same thing in every other genre/sport etc, there never really is a conclusive answer to these types debates (top x, goat etc) and personal bias has to come in to make a decision for people.
Another reason why I find these things so generic and predictable.
If we were to pick things apart and talk about things like impact, best discography, most creative, best visuals etc
That would be far more interesting and I think then everyone stands to appreciate more about hip-hop beyond being able to rhyme the best, some people could expand their interests, and it gives a platform to appreciate the types of rapper who are often under-appreciated because we're not only talking about lyrics.
Well then, since you want to bring the discussion to that you could've mentioned your opinion about some rappers and why we should listen to them, instead you chose to critique our opinions as bland and predictable while not offering your own opinion.
Seriously, I'm interested to see what you have to say about your favorite rappers, why not do it instead of complaining about what others think?
By leaving out the OP rappers then it's just up to self preference. Also, should Jay-Z be in the GOAT list? He's quantity over quality. He's not even top 5 in his own city 
.
Tech N9ne
Vinnie Paz
The Game
Yela Wolf - Just because he's mixed rap with basically country to make something new and creative.
Hopsin
Of that above list, if you haven't heard or listened to Vinne Piaz get on it. Such an underrate rapper. Even his verses in AOTP (his crews version of D12, Slaughterhouse..etc) stuff are gold.
. Tech N9ne
Vinnie Paz
The Game
Yela Wolf - Just because he's mixed rap with basically country to make something new and creative.
Hopsin
Of that above list, if you haven't heard or listened to Vinne Piaz get on it. Such an underrate rapper. Even his verses in AOTP (his crews version of D12, Slaughterhouse..etc) stuff are gold.
Not enough mentions of him in this thread, one of my personal favesBy leaving out the OP rappers then it's just up to self preference. Also, should Jay-Z be in the GOAT list? He's quantity over quality. He's not even top 5 in his own city
Tech N9ne
Vinnie Paz
The Game
Yela Wolf - Just because he's mixed rap with basically country to make something new and creative.
Hopsin
Of that above list, if you haven't heard or listened to Vinne Piaz get on it. Such an underrate rapper. Even his verses in AOTP (his crews version of D12, Slaughterhouse..etc) stuff are gold.
Ya was thinking the same. Surely top 5 in the era after he broke onto the scene.
I remember when the documentary first came out, thought it was one of the greatest albums of all time. Funnily enough, I recently found a pirate copy of that album when cleaning my old room at my mothers house and have had it in my cars CD player and playing it for about a week now
Last edited:
I thought that was what it was? Our personal top 5
I called these lists boring and generic, I didn't critique anyone's opinion in such a way. You should read what I said.
What I also said was most people who create these lists only focus on lyricism.
If I was to create a similar list, outside of the ones the OP listed it would look something like
- Scarface
- Slick Rick
- Chuck D
- Rakim
- Big Daddy Kane
But for those guys i'm looking at direct impact and influence on the culture and rappers who came after them.
I could go one further and be controversial to include the likes of likes of Kanye, Lil Wayne & Diddy (since a few people put Dre in theirs)
Also I'd put in others like Too $hort, Pimp C, DMX, Busta Rhymes, Q-Tip when you talk about different styles & sounds within hip-hop
Hell the fact that not a single person has included a female rapper (except I think 1 or 2 mentioned Lauryn Hill) tells me that we're only looking at lyricism in here.
MC Lyte is one of the most influential rappers, ever. Hell, Rapsody could out rhyme almost every rapper lyrically.
This is what I mean, what are we talking about when we say 'best rapper' because to me, we're just saying 'best lyricist' or 'my favourite rappers'
There's nothing wrong with it, but I think it's disingenuous to use the term 'best' so flippantly, when the criteria is so limited.
Ok.
If we did it properly, not just your favourites, who would be there?
I think most can agree on Rakim. Kool G Rap, KRS One, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick and LL Cool J all could arguably be there based on lyricism, delivery, impact, discography etc...
Who else? There's arguments for Big L and Big Pun but they've not really got discography- then again neither did Biggie but he's in most top 5s regardless.
Will Smith
Kris Kros
Vanilla Ice
Mc Hammer
Goldie Looking Chain
Kris Kros
Vanilla Ice
Mc Hammer
Goldie Looking Chain
It's definitely a classic for me.Ya was thinking the same. Surely top 5 in the era after he broke onto the seen.
I remember when the documentary first came out, thought it was one of the greatest albums of all time. Funnily enough, I recently found a pirate copy of that album when cleaning my old room at my mothers house and have had it in my cars CD player and playing it for about a week now
Love a good name drop he does. Documentary was sick though!
That's a boring and predictable list, mainly because I like it.
And I agree with the rest Grandmaster Flash and DJ Premier are for example as important as the artists they worked with, they created legacies together and it's difficult to separate them. Maybe widening it to, most influential Hip Hop artists, would make an interesting debate.
Good list that doesn't look out of place in the thread.
You've gone through a few criteria that you think we've used in judging these rappers such as; lyricism, flow and impact on the genre.
There's 2 other things that are extremely important to rap lovers that haven't been mentioned but help form our opinions and that is Cadence and timing, in fact I'd go as far as to say THE most important thing for judging a rapper is cadence.
It doesn't matter whether a rapper has swallowed a thesaurus or sucked a producer off for fire beats, if they can't ride the beat in a timely and melodic way then they're not worth their own self proclaimed accolades.
If it was just about lyrics then we would have seen more Jeru and Canibus on the lists.
Anyway, these lists always end up becoming generic just as greatest footballer lists do.
A more pertinent and less asked question would be the top 3 greatest female emcees. I'll start it off with my personal favourites in no order;
Foxy
Digga
Lyte
A more pertinent and less asked question would be the top 3 greatest female emcees. I'll start it off with my personal favourites in no order;
Foxy
Digga
Lyte
RT the wise strikes again! Agree 100% with what you said.
I call that smoothness, in different ways that's why I really like GZA, Rakim and Big Daddy Kane. They have that little something.
I feel like Danny Brown in a few years will deserve a mention. XXX and Atrocity Exhibition are better albums than many of these GOAT list rappers.
Legit thought this was a personal list so it’s why I put in Krazyie Bone who has incredible flow and technique though lyrically isn’t amazing. Or Budden who was very relatable for me, or Royce just because his delivery was fantastic.
If we were solely going by lyricists then I would have put Canibus or Chino XL.
If we were solely going by lyricists then I would have put Canibus or Chino XL.
Exactly! It's such a boring list, that's why I didn't bother writing that initiallyThat's a boring and predictable list, mainly because I like it.
And I agree with the rest Grandmaster Flash and DJ Premier are for example as important as the artists they worked with, they created legacies together and it's difficult to separate them. Maybe widening it to, most influential Hip Hop artists, would make an interesting debate.
I love hip-hop too much to ever be bored by it or make it generic and bland.
But then I knew that if I came in the thread and put in any one of Lil Wayne, Kanye, Pimp C or MC Lyte - i'd end up with a bunch of notifications too that I wouldn't be bothered to reply to or try to justify, even though I don't think they're too crazy to suggest.
I agree completely about the delivery and flow, it's the reason why Biggie stands the test of time despite a limited discography - his flow is unmatched and arguably, the most influential, ever. Notable mentions include Andre 3k, Big Pun, Busta, Kool G, Masta Ace.
Then when it comes to delivery, you can't exclude DMX, Scarface, Snoop, Method Man, GfK from the conversation either.
This is why these lists are so limiting, there's so much hip-hop to be discussed and we shouldn't put it into a box.
We're never going to agree on who the best is, so we often just default to who we think the best should be and that's how they end being so generic.
Hip hop has grown into the biggest genre in the world, that wasn't be accident. It influences almost anything in pop culture from clothes, to dancing, to slang and has been doing so since Run DMC in the 80s and the adidas sneaker.
Eve deserves love, love the inclusion of Digga though she's way too overlooked.
I love Kim too, her peak was the the biggest of all time - before Nicki Minaj ofc.
I'd have
MC Lyte
Kim
Eve
Top 3 feels unfair
Glad to see Andre 3000 has popped up a lot.
Only female rapper I really checked for was Eve. I thought ‘Love is blind’ was excellent.
Top 5 producers if we want something different. Quite tough actually. Personally I wanna say...
Premier
Rza
Dre
Dilla
El-P
And I'm missing a fair few there (Kanye fanbois triggered). I think the first 3 in that list are immovable though.
Premier
Rza
Dre
Dilla
El-P
And I'm missing a fair few there (Kanye fanbois triggered). I think the first 3 in that list are immovable though.