Tottenham's mental issues when a trophy is in sight

[blue blue]

Is it possible their mental issues have rubbed off on their builders?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Give Fergie their current side and put them in a red kit and that side would win the league.

It’s just excuses. They have the best striker in the league, top class 10 and mid is solid in general .. well balanced defence and keeper.

It’s all there for them. They just can’t take the final step because of mental and tactical issues.

Even if this was true it's almost entirely irrelevant since you're talking about arguably the best manager in football history.

'Mid is solid in general' = not one remotely top class central midfielder at the club, neither Sissoko or Winks start for any of the other top six sides.

'Well balanced defence' = we have great central defenders but terrible fullbacks and if you think Lloris is 'well balanced' you need to start watching him play more often.

We can't take the final step because of a lack of investment which pretty much everyone recognised in the summer but now seems to have gone back on. We needed players, we didn't get them and then we lost Dembele and still didn't bring anybody in. This whole 'best striker in the league, top class 10' thing is such ludicrous cherry picking when you can say the same about all our rivals.

United = best cm in the league, best keeper in the league and solid in every area.
Chelsea = best wide player in the league, one of the best cms in the world, everywhere but CF have excellent depth
City = arguably best striker in the league, about a million world class attacking midfielders, insane strength in depth from top to bottom including bench players who cost 60m .. need I say more?
Liverpool = Arguably the best player in the league in Salah, best cb in the league in van djik, best lb in the league in robertson, weakest area is central midfield and wijnaldum, keita, fabinho, henderson etc still pisses over our options

This sudden overrating of our squad just so people can shit on Pochettino is fantastic. We do have a good team, one very capable of competing with the rest, but we also have some real weaknesses we need to address (Just like Liverpool did this summer) but simply won't, so we're forced to adapt to that. Right now we're a top 4 level squad, anybody genuinely looking at our current team and saying we should be competing with Liverpool/City is on a different planet.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Of course spurs are bottlers. Can’t believe some are saying it’s a player thing - why on earth do players like Modric and Carrick go elsewhere and become uber successful then?

Oh man I can't imagine why players moving to Real fecking Madrid and a Ferguson led United side would suddenly start winning more trophies than they did at Spurs.

 

[Bilbo]

Spurs are over-achieving. There really isn't any doubt about that at all - is this thread to wind up Glaston or do people really think this is up for debate?

The concern for them is whether they can hold this group together for long enough to take full advantage of the benefits the new stadium will bring. I have my doubts

 

[Offside]

The extent of their bottling is mad over the last 10-15 years:

2006 – Went into the last day in the CL position and finished it outside after losing to West Ham having spent weeks in the top 4

2009 – Lose League Cup final on penalties

2010 – Lose an FA Cup Semi-final to an already relegated Portsmouth team

2012 – Squander a 2-0 lead at Arsenal to lose 5-2, then somehow find themselves below them in the league. Then draw to Aston Villa in their final away game after Arsenal had missed their chance and then finished behind them on the final day.

2013 – Throw away a 10 point lead over Arsenal in the last couple of months of the season

2015 – Lose the league cup final

2016 – Finish third in a two-horse title race

2017 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final. Lose to West Ham as soon as they get within reach of the leaders (Chelsea)

2018 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final.

 

[aganley]

The extent of their bottling is mad over the last 10-15 years:

2006 – Went into the last day in the CL position and finished it outside after losing to West Ham having spent weeks in the top 4

2009 – Lose League Cup final on penalties

2010 – Lose an FA Cup Semi-final to an already relegated Portsmouth team

2012 – Squander a 2-0 lead at Arsenal to lose 5-2, then somehow find themselves below them in the league. Then draw to Aston Villa in their final away game after Arsenal had missed their chance and then finished behind them on the final day.

2013 – Throw away a 10 point lead over Arsenal in the last couple of months of the season

2015 – Lose the league cup final

2016 – Finish third in a two-horse title race

2017 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final. Lose to West Ham as soon as they get within reach of the leaders (Chelsea)

2018 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final.

I’d agree Spurs are over-achieving when it comes to finances. But if you look at their 11 players they put out each week I would disagree. The team they put out each week is where they should be. As demonstrated Serial bottlers. The question is, would it surprise anyone if Spurs on the last game of the season bottled 4th place.

 

[balaks]

The extent of their bottling is mad over the last 10-15 years:

2006 – Went into the last day in the CL position and finished it outside after losing to West Ham having spent weeks in the top 4

2009 – Lose League Cup final on penalties

2010 – Lose an FA Cup Semi-final to an already relegated Portsmouth team

2012 – Squander a 2-0 lead at Arsenal to lose 5-2, then somehow find themselves below them in the league. Then draw to Aston Villa in their final away game after Arsenal had missed their chance and then finished behind them on the final day.

2013 – Throw away a 10 point lead over Arsenal in the last couple of months of the season

2015 – Lose the league cup final

2016 – Finish third in a two-horse title race

2017 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final. Lose to West Ham as soon as they get within reach of the leaders (Chelsea)

2018 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final.

Does make depressing reading however the finishing third in a two horse race thing that always is thrown at us is bullshit as not once that season were we ever top of the league - we were always chasing.

 

[balaks]

Even if this was true it's almost entirely irrelevant since you're talking about arguably the best manager in football history.

'Mid is solid in general' = not one remotely top class central midfielder at the club, neither Sissoko or Winks start for any of the other top six sides.

'Well balanced defence' = we have great central defenders but terrible fullbacks and if you think Lloris is 'well balanced' you need to start watching him play more often.

We can't take the final step because of a lack of investment which pretty much everyone recognised in the summer but now seems to have gone back on. We needed players, we didn't get them and then we lost Dembele and still didn't bring anybody in. This whole 'best striker in the league, top class 10' thing is such ludicrous cherry picking when you can say the same about all our rivals.

United = best cm in the league, best keeper in the league and solid in every area.
Chelsea = best wide player in the league, one of the best cms in the world, everywhere but CF have excellent depth
City = arguably best striker in the league, about a million world class attacking midfielders, insane strength in depth from top to bottom including bench players who cost 60m .. need I say more?
Liverpool = Arguably the best player in the league in Salah, best cb in the league in van djik, best lb in the league in robertson, weakest area is central midfield and wijnaldum, keita, fabinho, henderson etc still pisses over our options

This sudden overrating of our squad just so people can shit on Pochettino is fantastic. We do have a good team, one very capable of competing with the rest, but we also have some real weaknesses we need to address (Just like Liverpool did this summer) but simply won't, so we're forced to adapt to that. Right now we're a top 4 level squad, anybody genuinely looking at our current team and saying we should be competing with Liverpool/City is on a different planet.

I agree with all of this. Great post.

 

[Maccataq]

I feel like they are over-achieving in the league but they do need to step up and win something to stop such accusations. I find it remarkable that they don't place more emphasis on winning cups (or maybe they do and just use excuses when they go out) but I feel they are a bit unlucky when you have teams like Man City practically getting byes to finals and playing teams full of world class players so even if they were to get to the final it would be very tricky. Obviously they have fallen at the semi-final stage of the FA Cup and the League Cup in the last 2 seasons which are viewed as failures rather than progress, which is up for debate but they need to keep getting to semi-finals and overcome this hurdle.

 

[Jonno]

The fact that Spurs are even being talked about in the title race year after year is a fantastic compliment to Spurs.

Their squad is genuinely joint 3rd-6th with United Chelsea and Arsenal in terms of quality and depth, yet consistently out perform them.

Incredibly unfair to criticise them when they're as hampered as they are in the transfer market and in squad depth.

 

[JDoe]

There is hardly any difference between the squads/first XI of Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and United. For any of them, top 4 would be a successful season, top 2 slightly overachieving and winning the league would be an upset. City should be winning the league every time with that squad, Arsenal is just below the other four and top 4 would be huge for them. Spurs is doing very well currently, nobody should be expecting them to challenge this year because City is so far ahead of everyone.

 

[Jonno]

Give Fergie their current side and put them in a red kit and that side would win the league.

It’s just excuses. They have the best striker in the league, top class 10 and mid is solid in general .. well balanced defence and keeper.

It’s all there for them. They just can’t take the final step because of mental and tactical issues.

They don't have the best striker in the league. City do. Their number 10 is inconsistent. Their midfield is average and lacks depth. Their defence is solid and their keeper is good. But that doesn't win you titles.

Failure to strengthen substantially for many years is their downfall. They're probably 4-5 very good players away from challenging properly for a title (Like Liverpool were).

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I feel like they are over-achieving in the league but they do need to step up and win something to stop such accusations. I find it remarkable that they don't place more emphasis on winning cups (or maybe they do and just use excuses when they go out) but I feel they are a bit unlucky when you have teams like Man City practically getting byes to finals and playing teams full of world class players so even if they were to get to the final it would be very tricky. Obviously they have fallen at the semi-final stage of the FA Cup and the League Cup in the last 2 seasons which are viewed as failures rather than progress, which is up for debate but they need to keep getting to semi-finals and overcome this hurdle.

This is simply because for a club at our financial level, the money you get for being in Europe is very important. We're currently funding a stadium which makes this even more true, it's pretty clear that the instruction from the board is prioritise keeping the team in the Champions League with the cups being a secondary objective.

It's not what you really want as a fan, that much I would say. I would love a cup and honestly tire of every season just being the same old story with playing for the top four spots, to the point where this season I'm at a stage where I really will not be getting excited for most league games. Fighting for top 4 is boring but an understandable necessity when you don't have oil money pouring in or the natural revenue a club like Liverpool or United can generate.

 

[Aboutreika18]

The extent of their bottling is mad over the last 10-15 years:

2006 – Went into the last day in the CL position and finished it outside after losing to West Ham having spent weeks in the top 4

2009 – Lose League Cup final on penalties

2010 – Lose an FA Cup Semi-final to an already relegated Portsmouth team

2012 – Squander a 2-0 lead at Arsenal to lose 5-2, then somehow find themselves below them in the league. Then draw to Aston Villa in their final away game after Arsenal had missed their chance and then finished behind them on the final day.

2013 – Throw away a 10 point lead over Arsenal in the last couple of months of the season

2015 – Lose the league cup final

2016 – Finish third in a two-horse title race

2017 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final. Lose to West Ham as soon as they get within reach of the leaders (Chelsea)

2018 – Lose the Fa Cup semi-final.

To be fair, over the same period, they did beat Chelsea in the 2008 League Cup final and they managed to qualify for the CL in 2009/10 by beating direct rivals Man City away from home in the run-in. I suppose knocking out Milan in 2010/11 was a pretty good achievement as well.

 

[Raees]

Even if this was true it's almost entirely irrelevant since you're talking about arguably the best manager in football history.

'Mid is solid in general' = not one remotely top class central midfielder at the club, neither Sissoko or Winks start for any of the other top six sides.

'Well balanced defence' = we have great central defenders but terrible fullbacks and if you think Lloris is 'well balanced' you need to start watching him play more often.

We can't take the final step because of a lack of investment which pretty much everyone recognised in the summer but now seems to have gone back on. We needed players, we didn't get them and then we lost Dembele and still didn't bring anybody in. This whole 'best striker in the league, top class 10' thing is such ludicrous cherry picking when you can say the same about all our rivals.

United = best cm in the league, best keeper in the league and solid in every area.
Chelsea = best wide player in the league, one of the best cms in the world, everywhere but CF have excellent depth
City = arguably best striker in the league, about a million world class attacking midfielders, insane strength in depth from top to bottom including bench players who cost 60m .. need I say more?
Liverpool = Arguably the best player in the league in Salah, best cb in the league in van djik, best lb in the league in robertson, weakest area is central midfield and wijnaldum, keita, fabinho, henderson etc still pisses over our options

This sudden overrating of our squad just so people can shit on Pochettino is fantastic. We do have a good team, one very capable of competing with the rest, but we also have some real weaknesses we need to address (Just like Liverpool did this summer) but simply won't, so we're forced to adapt to that. Right now we're a top 4 level squad, anybody genuinely looking at our current team and saying we should be competing with Liverpool/City is on a different planet.

Winks is a good player and Moussa Dembele was also an excellent player albeit past it now. Dier and Wanayama are not top class but they’re solid enough against most opposition.

You control enough of the game against a range of opponents to prove that midfield isn’t really a problem area for you lot albeit it is on paper your weakest area (but the way you play protects this area as you don’t give away the ball much) and not to mention you have Eriksen and Delle who are two of the best attacking mids in the league and help that midfield to ping the ball around with ease.

Terrible full backs? Trippier is England’s number one to the point Walker had to go as a RCB and Davies/Rose are hardly a downgrade to Delph. Yes they’re not in the class of a Robertson but when Tripper and Rose are fit - deffo good enough to win a League cup and FA Cup.

Lloris isn’t the keeper he once was but he’s a World Cup winner and yet he’s spineless. His mental frailties even for the NT can probably he attributed to his long tenure at Spurs.

Your review of the other sides is laughable ... United are suddenly solid in every area - based on your words, we should be winning the treble with the current squad.
Hendo part of a contingent which pisses on your midfield conveniently forgetting that Attacking mids are also part of a midfield unit and you guys have two of the best attacking mids in Europe.

Haven’t even discussed Kane yet but I find the fact that you seem to think you have such a weak side and that you’re overperforming a typical Spurs mentality.

United fans even with a average squad - we always demand more and think we are underperforming but Spurs fans have a great team yet think they’ve done well just to compete. With that mentality even if you got given a billion pound transfer kitty - you’re not gonna win anything of note soon.

Spurs are my favourite side from the London region so if we aren’t playing well I wouldn’t mind seeing them do well so it’s not like I enjoy criticising you lot but you guys have basically pissed away a golden period to win some silverware.

 

[Rob]

Spurs have a net spend of 40m and have spent 180m in total since 2016/2017. Compare that to the likes of us, you, City and Chelsea and I’d say they are punching well above their weight.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

They have the poorest squad out of the top six (tbf better than arsenal) They’re overacheiving not bottling anything.

I agree, the only things that had them vying for the title were clickbait newspaper articles.

Kane and Eriksen are their two best players, their defense with Vertonghen and Alderweireld is good. But you also need a good spine, Sissoko and Winks are not good enough, Sissoko has improved and is in good form, but is a poor mans Dembele, who himself wasnt as good as Modric. And Winks may grow into a good midfielder but as it stands currently is not consistently good enough. And their bench options are both DM's, hardly an exciting plan B bringing on Wanyama or Dier who both offer virtually nothing going forward if you need to chase the game.

I honestly dont mind their fullback options, they have all had injury problems this season it seems as when I have watched Spurs multiple fullbacks have been out injured, so im not sure how fit they have been. But last season Davies and Trippier were great. And the attacking options are good behind Kane, Moura, Eriksen, Son, Alli, Lamela. They all have different skill sets with Lamela being the worst of the lot, yes he is full of energy and presses well. Not afraid to get stuck in and play the physical battles, but you want goals from your forward players. there are probably CB's with better scoring averages than Lamela. Son and Alli are standout players and Eriksen is world class, although for how much longer they keep Eriksen remains to be seen.

Lloris occasionally can have flap or lapse of judgement firing the ball out straight to an opposition player. But he is still the best Spurs have got.

Kane is arguably the best striker in the league, a goal scoring machine, but as we seen in the Chelsea game if you dont win your midfield battle and actually get the ball to him there is not much he can do. I dont mind Llorente as a backup, is a real threat from any cross and a hadful for defenders. Is also quite content now he is older to play that backup role from the bench.

Spurs needed some serious investment in midfield, maybe move on either Dier or Wanyama to help fund the purchase. But what they need will not be cheap, they need a top 4 quality midfielder, able to compete with the best the rest of the top 4 put on the field.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Winks is a good player and Moussa Dembele was also an excellent player albeit past it now. Dier and Wanayama are not top class but they’re solid enough against most opposition.

You control enough of the game against a range of opponents to prove that midfield isn’t really a problem area for you lot albeit it is on paper your weakest area (but the way you play protects this area as you don’t give away the ball much) and not to mention you have Eriksen and Delle who are two of the best attacking mids in the league and help that midfield to ping the ball around with ease.

Terrible full backs? Trippier is England’s number one to the point Walker had to go as a RCB and Davies/Rose are hardly a downgrade to Delph. Yes they’re not in the class of a Robertson but when Tripper and Rose are fit - deffo good enough to win a League cup and FA Cup.

Lloris isn’t the keeper he once was but he’s a World Cup winner and yet he’s spineless. His mental frailties even for the NT can probably he attributed to his long tenure at Spurs.

Your review of the other sides is laughable ... United are suddenly solid in every area - based on your words, we should be winning the treble with the current squad.
Hendo part of a contingent which pisses on your midfield conveniently forgetting that Attacking mids are also part of a midfield unit and you guys have two of the best attacking mids in Europe.

Haven’t even discussed Kane yet but I find the fact that you seem to think you have such a weak side and that you’re overperforming a typical Spurs mentality.

United fans even with a average squad - we always demand more and think we are underperforming but Spurs fans have a great team yet think they’ve done well just to compete. With that mentality even if you got given a billion pound transfer kitty - you’re not gonna win anything of note soon.

Spurs are my favourite side from the London region so if we aren’t playing well I wouldn’t mind seeing them do well so it’s not like I enjoy criticising you lot but you guys have basically pissed away a golden period to win some silverware.

Winks is a good player, but he's not a starting player for a team who wins the league. Dembele doesn't play for the club and basically didn't all season because of injuries, Dier and Wanyama have been injured for practically the entire season, sorry but this is why I'm struggling to think you actually watch Spurs regularly because it's pretty clear you're not aware of what the current state of the squad is. I don't get why Spurs fans (who watch us week in week out) are being told how good our squad is by people who probably catch the odd game and then wait for us to lose so they can rush in and call us bottlers.

And no, just because we exert control over games doesn't mean midfield is not a problem. We lack any kind of creativity or invention from midfield, whilst Winks/Sissoko offer work rate and can pass sideways reliably, they offer very little in terms of opening a side up, so when we come up against a team like Burnley who sit 10 men behind the ball, or even Chelsea who defended resolutely, we struggle badly. It's a case of mark Eriksen out of the game and bingo, we have nobody else with the ability to open up a packed defence. We're entirely reliant on moments of genius from Kane or Son, and when those don't come we're fecked. I said a number of times in the summer we badly needed a creative midfielder who could play deep and spray balls around to take the pressure off Eriksen, and we didn't get that. Instead we sold Dembele, a midfielder who whilst not creative, was able to carve teams open with his power and ability on the ball. Yes, when Alli is available this situation is helped because it's another player who knows how to spot a through ball and tries the unpredictable, but guess what? He's been injured for a while, and we have zero depth in his position so have dropped points.

Trippier is shite. I've lost count of the amount of games he's cost us this season through stupidity. He's seemingly come back from the world cup and decided he can't be bothered, because nearly every single game he's making ridiculous passes, in both the United/City games this season we lost 1-0, Trippier gave the ball away in a poor area for each goal. I've never been his biggest fan because he totally lacks athleticism and gets ripped apart by any winger with genuine pace (Sane last season) but this season he's seemingly forgotten how to play football. Rose is good (cant fecking cross though) but fit for about a third of the season, and Davies is the dictionary definition of bang average. Offers nothing offensively and is mediocre defensively. Choosing between Trippier and Aurier this season has been like choosing whether you want to be punched or kicked in the bollocks, Trippier was good in the world cup playing as an advanced wing back with minimal opportunities to feck up defensively, he can deliver a cross and has a good set piece on him. That is all. He will NOT be England's number one going forward, unless Southgate is fecking his sister or something.

Lloris has always been dodgy. He arrived dodgy, and he will leave dodgy. He's had some great seasons for us but is blatantly on the wane and last season/this season he's been a genuine disaster half the time he plays, Gazzaniga has been preferable this season.

No you shouldn't be 'winning the treble', but you do have a good squad. I think Henderson is bang average but he would be getting starts for us, Kane is fantastic and in my view the best striker in the league but this season the service to him has been painfully poor at times. The aforementioned lack of creativity beyond Eriksen (and Alli, who was injured for a stretch at the start and has been injured for a while now) means our main option is to stick it out wide and get crosses in, but considering our fullbacks have been pitiful this season, this also mostly fails. Against Chelsea I think Trippier hit the first back about 50 times.

I think this squad could and should have won a cup at some point, but it isn't as good as you (and other United fans) seem to think. Spurs fans have been talking about what we lack for a while and the board have ignored this, and (shock horror) that has backfired and cost us this season, had we gone out and invested proper money in the summer maybe we would be in a title race.

 

[adexkola]

To be fair, over the same period, they did beat Chelsea in the 2008 League Cup final and they managed to qualify for the CL in 2009/10 by beating direct rivals Man City away from home in the run-in. I suppose knocking out Milan in 2010/11 was a pretty good achievement as well.

Yeah but why include facts that go against your armchair psychological breakdown of Spurs?

 

[Mugiwarared71]

Cant think in my mind why Poch would rush harry Kane back so soon. I mean did you guys see the fuss they made when he came back ? it was like a musical welcome back Kane this that and the other, ultimately the fact they rushed him and put Son out of position has lead to two defeats in a row.

I mean i grow more and more certain Poch is not our answer specially alone for the comment of trophies bring egos that is alarm bells i don't care if Levy is squeezing the purse-strings .

 

[NinjaZombie]

The league title has not really been in their sights ever though.

Anyway, I think Poch are the perfect manager for them. He'll get them fourth consistently and he's not too bothered about not winning any trophies. They've got a squad just good enough to get 4th, not strong or deep enough to challenge for trophies as they try to do so.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

Cant think in my mind why Poch would rush harry Kane back so soon. I mean did you guys see the fuss they made when he came back ? it was like a musical welcome back Kane this that and the other, ultimately the fact they rushed him and put Son out of position has lead to two defeats in a row.

I mean i grow more and more certain Poch is not our answer specially alone for the comment of trophies bring egos that is alarm bells i don't care if Levy is squeezing the purse-strings .

No it hasn't.

 

[Mugiwarared71]

No it hasn't.

well not entirely Kanes fault for the two losses but trying to force him in and change son out of position has resulted in two losses out of two where as they were doing fine while kane was out injured .

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

well not entirely Kanes fault for the two losses but trying to force him in and change son out of position has resulted in two losses out of two where as they were doing fine while kane was out injured .

It's not just 'not entirely' Kane's fault that we lost, it's not remotely his fault.

We're not forcing Kane in, we're playing the same system we were for most of this season and last, Son is not out of position. We lost to Burnley because we threw men forward for the win (when Kane had got us back in to the game) and got caught out, and lost to Chelsea because it was one of those tight encounters in which one mistake can cost you, which it did. Neither of these losses were down to Kane playing up front.

 

[MadMike]

They need to beat Arsenal at all costs, that's all I know. Else they go from title contenders to getting pulled into the race for top 4 in the space of a week.

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

They need to beat Arsenal at all costs, that's all I know. Else they go from title contenders to getting pulled into the race for top 4 in the space of a week.

We do. That game is absolutely huge, I'd argue our biggest of the season thus far.

 

[RG 11]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. It's true that Spurs don't have the same resources as the other five teams but the manager as well as the fans don't really put emphasis on winning anything.

You hear pochettino say that trophies are for egos and it might take 10 years to win the title and it just sounds so defeatist.

Multiple times this season, Liverpool/City have dropped points and Spurs were one win away from truly closing the gap and they've managed to lose points and ease off the pressure.

Imagine if Leicester's attitude was that they are in the top 4 and cool off?!

 

[Xyx]

Nothing mental about it this season. They were massively overperforming for a while in the sense that their results were not reflective of their performances and it's finally catching up to them.

 

[Dominos]

Success breeds success. Winning one of the cups would be big for them, plenty of examples of teams establishing themselves and being able to compete at the very top after winning a cup competition. They can’t afford to have this team get torn apart without a trophy to show for it.

I believe Kane and Pochettino will stay for a long time though so they’ll be fine.

Spurs won the league cup in 2008. Wigan won the FA cup. Portsmouth won the FA cup. Birmingham won the league cup. Arsenal finally broke their trophy drought by winning the FA cup.

None of them lead to competing at the very top.

Leicester didn't need any cup win prior to them to pulling off a miracle by winning the league.

This "taste for trophies" bollocks has no basis in reality.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Spurs won the league cup in 2008. Wigan won the FA cup. Portsmouth won the FA cup. Birmingham won the league cup. Arsenal finally broke their trophy drought by winning the FA cup.

None of them lead to competing at the very top.

Leicester didn't need any cup win prior to them to pulling off a miracle by winning the league.

This "taste for trophies" bollocks has no basis in reality.

I agree the connection is tenuous at best, but you know what does win trophies? Truckloads of cash.

 

[Eboue]

Spurs won the league cup in 2008. Wigan won the FA cup. Portsmouth won the FA cup. Birmingham won the league cup. Arsenal finally broke their trophy drought by winning the FA cup.

None of them lead to competing at the very top.

Leicester didn't need any cup win prior to them to pulling off a miracle by winning the league.

This "taste for trophies" bollocks has no basis in reality.

Testify

 

[Eboue]

Of course spurs are bottlers. Can’t believe some are saying it’s a player thing - why on earth do players like Modric and Carrick go elsewhere and become uber successful then? Can hardly call it a resource thing either because smaller teams than them in terms of budget win trophies and once you’ve built a great team in terms of quality what you’ve spent to get there means feck all as you’re now in a position quality wise to win something.

You can only use that excuse to some extent when you’re struggling to build a good team in the first place.

Spurs have overcome the odds to build a top class side but what is letting them down now is not financial restrictions but that ability to keep your head under extreme pressure and produce your best when the heat is on. So yes .. they’re bottlers.

It must be a fabric thing huh

 

[hellohello]

Spurs won the league cup in 2008. Wigan won the FA cup. Portsmouth won the FA cup. Birmingham won the league cup. Arsenal finally broke their trophy drought by winning the FA cup.

None of them lead to competing at the very top.

Leicester didn't need any cup win prior to them to pulling off a miracle by winning the league.

This "taste for trophies" bollocks has no basis in reality.

Agree 100% with this.

This thread is quite sad overall though, but well, guess that's just to be expected on here. Some people are very quick to jump to any evidence that support their already existing narrative, and conveniently ignore any evidence that point to the opposite. Everything is not perfect at Spurs, but some of the criticism the team get on here is borderline ridiculous and I would think people were trolling, but there are just too many so I don't even know anymore.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Skimming through the pages, seems like the main criticisms are on their players and their club's lack of resources (something along that line).

I think their manager Poch should share the responsiblity as well and be criticised. Doesn't strike me as motivator or an inspiring leader that can rally his players to cross the finish line or when they need it in losing/helpless situations. He's more like a hard trainer and tactician who tend to develop strong bond/trust with his players. Just that. He haven't (to be kind) or didn't (harsh but that's how it seems) instill the "winning mentality" into his players. No doubt in high profile/big games the players can naturally rise their game, rise to their occassion, but idk something is really wrong there, they can't do it consistently.

Then again, I'm not too familiar with Poch.

Basically, their squad is football quality wise that strong already, and they have a manager/coach who is that good at the football tactical side of the game. They also have strong identity in how they play. No issuses between coaches and players either. I think they just need that one missing factor, at best a player, to help them all cross the finish line, someone with that winning mentality leadership (not just someone who have won things before, it means jackass bs nothing if the player is shit at leading/guiding his team-mates, I mean their current captain-keeper won a freakin WC last year but tbh he's not a leader that can drag/guide his team to victory).

 

[Needham]

They played Chelsea at home which is a tough game by any standard. They go on to lose which isn’t SURPRISING and like clockwork we get threads labeling them bottlers? Don’t you guys ever get tired of it? Are we really expecting a team who added no player the past two transfer window to win every game and lift the title come end of the season? Make it make sense please?

We'll do what we want. IT MAKES US FEEL BETTER!

 

[africanspur]

Give Fergie their current side and put them in a red kit and that side would win the league.

It’s just excuses. They have the best striker in the league, top class 10 and mid is solid in general .. well balanced defence and keeper.

It’s all there for them. They just can’t take the final step because of mental and tactical issues.

So all we need to do is hire probably the best manager in British football history and one of the best in football history and we'd be winning the league? Sounds simple.

Not to mention that even Ferguson took 3 years to win his first trophy and won the league in his 7th season, having finished 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, 1st. In a generally more fluid league system (for reference, the 5 seasons before Ferguson rocked up, Man Utd finished 4th, 4th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd).

God know whats this thread would be like if Poch had spent 3 of his 4 seasons in the bottom half of the table.

 

[africanspur]

Spurs won the league cup in 2008. Wigan won the FA cup. Portsmouth won the FA cup. Birmingham won the league cup. Arsenal finally broke their trophy drought by winning the FA cup.

None of them lead to competing at the very top.

Leicester didn't need any cup win prior to them to pulling off a miracle by winning the league.

This "taste for trophies" bollocks has no basis in reality.

Interestingly, the league cup trophy led to our 2 star players and strikeforce forcing moves out of the club, us starting the season with 2 points from 8 games, having to fire the manager who led us to the trophy, hire Redknapp, spend a lot of money and spend most of the season in a relegation battle (seriously. After 25 games, we were still only 2 points off bottom and only managed to pull away in the last 1/3 of the season).

Leicester got a taste for the biggest trophy domestically, haven't come close to winning anything else since and had to sell 2 of their 3 star players.

Its a nice idea and I'd love to win any trophy but as you said, not really something that's very grounded in fact.

I do know what would definitely give us much more of a winning mentality though. Chelsea and Man City developed some very strong mentalities and ability to win trophies, especially league titles in the 2000s, that hadn't been there for decades. I wonder what changed.....

 

[africanspur]

Hand on heart i expect you to finish 3rd. Your squad and your ehm... genious manager is 3rd spot material, and record wise you have proven you can achieve that and had achieved that. That's your par. You didnt sell anyone important although you didnt get anyone in as well. We only bought fred. Chelsea didnt bought much. Ditto city. Arsenal lost Wenger while chelsea implodes with sarri.

So unless you finish 1st or 2nd or win a cup pochetinno this year is just par.

You bought Fred and Dalot into a squad which finished above us last year. Chelsea brought in Jorginho, Kovavic, Kepa (to replace Courtois obviously) and now Higuain on loan. City brought in Mahrez to a squad that finished faaaar ahead of us in every way last season. I mean, I think it is very strange to try to use transfers as a barometer in which we've done ok with regards to the other teams last summer.

As it is, you're saying you had us down to finish 3rd last summer. Fair enough. This is where we currently stand though. As I said, we need to pick up and quickly, otherwise we will slide down but we are currently exactly where you thought we'd be, so I'm struggling to see where you think the issue with mentality is there?

Now you may think Poch is over-rated or over lauded and that is your prerogative but not sure what that has to do with apparent inherent mental weakness in the club.

Tottenham lack ambition.
From their board all the way down to their fans. They set out every year with top 4 as the ultimate prize. Achieving top four is their holy grail. Levy is unwilling (or unable) to invest more into the squad as long as they achieve top four. Their manager comes out and says things like "trophies are for egos" and "we need ten more years to compete". Compare that to OGS: "we are Manchester United and we want to win trophies". That is ambition and that filters down to the players and ultimately affects on field performance.
There may be 5 teams in the league with more resources than Tottenham but their are 19 teams with more desire to win trophies

This is nonsense and I would say actually we're showing a lot of ambition. The whole point of everything Levy and ENIC have done (possibly with the intention long term of selling the club) is with huge ambition in mind.

Ignore what happened in the 80s or 60s, Spurs were a mid table club which flirted with relegation every once in a while in the 00s. We had a run down training centre and let's be honest, as much as I loved it, a run down stadium. Then ENIC came in and we are where we are now. The ambition is to be a club which can compete long term with the Manchesters and Chelsea etc, not have a few seasons of competing unsustainably for the league and then getting relegated (Villa, Leeds, Newcastle) or qualifying once for the CL, getting knocked out in the qualification stage and never qualifying again (Everton). We're actually already doing something which no other club has really managed to do in the modern era, which is break into the 'top 4' on a consistent and sustainable basis.

That is also a very generous description of what Poch actually said.

 

[snk123]

I think they need some characters in the team - serial winners who inspire confidence and belief. Somebody like Zlatan from recent examples

 

[Owen06]

Tottenham are a very good footballing side,who have punched above their weight in recent times.

Football fans like to call them bottlers, but won't one have to be a favourite then lose, before being called a bottler?
How many time has a season started with majority of fans here predicting that,tottenham won't be in top3 due to their lack of spending? So many times, but yet everyone of the last three seasons,they are there.

If fans haven't noticed,winning trophies in England is a lot harder now. even small cups like the league cup, you have the oil rich city gunning for it.

So I don't think it's a mental issue,I think it's a spending issue,you have to spend to win stand a chance.something tottenham are failing to do.