Transfer budget glass ceiling

Igor Drefljak

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I actually do not mind Mata. I think he is a very good player, and is at a good age.
One thing I think we haven't done is, inject pace in the squad. Our fastest player yesterday was a LWB, who isn't even a defender, and even Young isn't that fast.
I don't understand why we wasn't in for Sanchez (maybe we was, not sure), but we could play (Januzaj - Mata - Sanchez) sat behind Rooney. It gives us real pace on the wings.

You see obvious players move from clubs, and then we buy players like Fellaini
 

didsbury1982

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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...d-their-responsibility-no-longer-9673580.html

Manchester United vs Swansea: Glazers can avoid their responsibility no longer

Avi Glazer, a parasitic presence in the Old Trafford directors’ box, wore the concerned frown of a speculator whose punt on the price of pork bellies had proved spectacularly ill-judged. He may have a rudimentary grasp of professional football, but he knew the game was up.

Is he a brilliant businessman or a corporate mugger? The difference is inconsequential as far as Manchester United are concerned. His family have taken £200million from the club in share sales and must be called to account.

The notion may appear far-fetched, and it is certainly farcical, but this could be the best defeat of Louis van Gaal’s career. The Glazers, whose avarice and opportunism have cost United £700m in assorted debt charges, can no longer avoid their responsibilities.

Though it goes against every fibre of their being, they will have to make financial sacrifices to give the Dutchman the tools to do his job. Failure to do so would jeopardise their one-way investment: we have been told, ad nauseam, that Van Gaal is not the type to suffer fools or risk his reputation.

He may have appeared sanguine, sufficiently self-possessed to sign autographs and shake supporters’ hands on his way to the first meaningful inquest of his career in English football, but he is a realist.

He spoke of confidence being “smashed down” by United’s first home defeat on the opening day since 1972. “Of course we need defenders,” he said during a stern TV interview. “But we never played as a team. We have to evaluate why.”

He knew, as well as anyone, that a David Moyes team, lacking such pace, physicality and tactical coherence, would have been derided. This was a non-performance which challenged assumptions of progress and predictions of a reversion to former glories.

Swansea’s first goal was a product of United’s inexperience, uncertainty and lack of communication. It proved that tactical principles are only as persuasive as the players who are expected to employ them.

Their winning goal was the result of naivety and poor decision making, the natural consequence of a cobbled-together back four, in which Ashley Young and Phil Jones struggled at full-back.

The abandonment of a back three at half time – it looked more like an over-optimistic experiment than an enduring statement of a change in philosophy – was unsurprising. United’s defenders were ill at ease, unsure whether to drop deep or close the ball down.

Tellingly, United’s equaliser, a conventional set-piece goal created by the presence of Jones at the near post and the improvisational skills of Wayne Rooney inside the six-yard box, was hardly a harbinger of revolution.

Little wonder Van Gaal, absorbed in making notes, seemed faintly disgusted by the high fiving going on around him by his staff and substitutes.

United were once defined by their defenders. It is cruel to point out that Tyler Blackett and Chris Smalling will never match the excellence of such partnerships as Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister, or Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic, but those are the standards by which they will be judged.

The manner of yesterday’s defeat will inevitably increase the price United will have to pay for immediate reinforcements. It will also highlight justifiable doubts about the ability of Ed Woodward, the club’s executive vice-chairman, to oversee investments of the required magnitude.

Wayne Rooney acrobatically scores a bicycle kick to level the scores Wayne Rooney acrobatically scores a bicycle kick to level the scores His insistence he has mastered the intricacies of forward planning following last season’s failure to give Moyes recruits of sufficient stature does not bear scrutiny. It was obvious as early as Christmas that Ferdinand, Vidic and Patrice Evra were destined to move on.

The failure to buy at least one world-class central defender smacks of a dereliction of duty.

In midfield Ander Herrera is neat, tidy and unthreatening, hardly a bargain at £30m. Juan Mata, at £32m, looks a short, straight peg in a round hole. The least said about £27m Marouane Fellaini, who could easily have been sent off in a lumbering cameo appearance, the better.

The elite are engaged in an arms race. While Chelsea and Arsenal went nuclear, by buying early and well, United’s weapon of choice was a gold-plated peashooter. Recruitment, complicated by a lack of Champions League exposure, will become more difficult as the transfer window edges shut.

Toni Kroos, a £20m bargain, has been snapped up by Real Madrid. Cesc Fabregas identified Stamford Bridge as a better platform than Old Trafford.

Angel di Maria may prefer PSG, so United’s most likely signing is Daley Blind, who could play in a back three or as a defensive midfielder.

It’s payback time, and the fallout has already hit Florida.
 

0161_UNITED

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I reckon the long term loss in monetary income far outweighs an initial overspend on players.

Didn't Adidas say that every year we fail to qualify for the CL we'll receive approx. £24m less than the £75m a year agreed upon for our kit deal?
Plus the loss of earnings from not being in the CL to begin with.
And the difference in PL money depending on where you finish in the table, and televised games etc.

You'd think that for example, paying an extra £10m on Vidal, Benatia & Di Maria each, even if "theres no value" would be worth it, if they can be the difference between a CL spot next year, and a repeat of last year.
I agree it simply has the taken into account. I can't say I agree the club should "overspend", but most certainly take the loss of Adidas and CL income into consideration when balancing how important it us to strengthen the side with player acquisitions. Not doing so would be paramount to negligence and essentially gambling with a billion dollar asset. I just can't see management and ownership doing that, but I'm still watching this space like everyone else.

As a secondary side point, it does make sense that we need to move some out, before adding. I've often suspected United genuinely wants to assist players departing in finding a mutually agreed new club. I think that's one of our selling points and what sets us apart. We generally don't push players out the door, push them to the highest bidder, etc. We certainly tend not to sideline players like city did with Adebayor and many others. We don't sign homegrown players just to rot in order to meet the quota. All in all, I think that's why it has taken time to shift players - we are actively trying to assist in finding them places where they can be successful. I don't think we have the "get the hell out" that other clubs have. And I think that's a big selling point for players thinking of coming to United. They will be treated well, even when it's time move on. Just my suspicion though.
 

DomesticTadpole

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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...d-their-responsibility-no-longer-9673580.html

Manchester United vs Swansea: Glazers can avoid their responsibility no longer

Avi Glazer, a parasitic presence in the Old Trafford directors’ box, wore the concerned frown of a speculator whose punt on the price of pork bellies had proved spectacularly ill-judged. He may have a rudimentary grasp of professional football, but he knew the game was up.

Is he a brilliant businessman or a corporate mugger? The difference is inconsequential as far as Manchester United are concerned. His family have taken £200million from the club in share sales and must be called to account.

The notion may appear far-fetched, and it is certainly farcical, but this could be the best defeat of Louis van Gaal’s career. The Glazers, whose avarice and opportunism have cost United £700m in assorted debt charges, can no longer avoid their responsibilities.

Though it goes against every fibre of their being, they will have to make financial sacrifices to give the Dutchman the tools to do his job. Failure to do so would jeopardise their one-way investment: we have been told, ad nauseam, that Van Gaal is not the type to suffer fools or risk his reputation.

He may have appeared sanguine, sufficiently self-possessed to sign autographs and shake supporters’ hands on his way to the first meaningful inquest of his career in English football, but he is a realist.

He spoke of confidence being “smashed down” by United’s first home defeat on the opening day since 1972. “Of course we need defenders,” he said during a stern TV interview. “But we never played as a team. We have to evaluate why.”

He knew, as well as anyone, that a David Moyes team, lacking such pace, physicality and tactical coherence, would have been derided. This was a non-performance which challenged assumptions of progress and predictions of a reversion to former glories.

Swansea’s first goal was a product of United’s inexperience, uncertainty and lack of communication. It proved that tactical principles are only as persuasive as the players who are expected to employ them.

Their winning goal was the result of naivety and poor decision making, the natural consequence of a cobbled-together back four, in which Ashley Young and Phil Jones struggled at full-back.

The abandonment of a back three at half time – it looked more like an over-optimistic experiment than an enduring statement of a change in philosophy – was unsurprising. United’s defenders were ill at ease, unsure whether to drop deep or close the ball down.

Tellingly, United’s equaliser, a conventional set-piece goal created by the presence of Jones at the near post and the improvisational skills of Wayne Rooney inside the six-yard box, was hardly a harbinger of revolution.

Little wonder Van Gaal, absorbed in making notes, seemed faintly disgusted by the high fiving going on around him by his staff and substitutes.

United were once defined by their defenders. It is cruel to point out that Tyler Blackett and Chris Smalling will never match the excellence of such partnerships as Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister, or Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic, but those are the standards by which they will be judged.

The manner of yesterday’s defeat will inevitably increase the price United will have to pay for immediate reinforcements. It will also highlight justifiable doubts about the ability of Ed Woodward, the club’s executive vice-chairman, to oversee investments of the required magnitude.

Wayne Rooney acrobatically scores a bicycle kick to level the scores Wayne Rooney acrobatically scores a bicycle kick to level the scores His insistence he has mastered the intricacies of forward planning following last season’s failure to give Moyes recruits of sufficient stature does not bear scrutiny. It was obvious as early as Christmas that Ferdinand, Vidic and Patrice Evra were destined to move on.

The failure to buy at least one world-class central defender smacks of a dereliction of duty.

In midfield Ander Herrera is neat, tidy and unthreatening, hardly a bargain at £30m. Juan Mata, at £32m, looks a short, straight peg in a round hole. The least said about £27m Marouane Fellaini, who could easily have been sent off in a lumbering cameo appearance, the better.

The elite are engaged in an arms race. While Chelsea and Arsenal went nuclear, by buying early and well, United’s weapon of choice was a gold-plated peashooter. Recruitment, complicated by a lack of Champions League exposure, will become more difficult as the transfer window edges shut.

Toni Kroos, a £20m bargain, has been snapped up by Real Madrid. Cesc Fabregas identified Stamford Bridge as a better platform than Old Trafford.

Angel di Maria may prefer PSG, so United’s most likely signing is Daley Blind, who could play in a back three or as a defensive midfielder.

It’s payback time, and the fallout has already hit Florida.
That's won't be good reading for the hierarchy.
 

AkaAkuma

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The 'no value in the market' statements look foolish now. 24mil for Toure, 30mil for Aguero, Silva 27mil. Stand still and you get left behind.
 

Kakeru

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@didsbury1982 Thanks for posting the article. It's indeed time a sackload of bricks falls on those parasites named Glazers and their idiot dog named Woodward. I'm so goddamned pissed that I can loop Al Capone's angry scene for days, and yet it will express how I feel towards those human pieces of trash.

 

DomesticTadpole

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I agree it simply has the taken into account. I can't say I agree the club should "overspend", but most certainly take the loss of Adidas and CL income into consideration when balancing how important it us to strengthen the side with player acquisitions. Not doing so would be paramount to negligence and essentially gambling with a billion dollar asset. I just can't see management and ownership doing that, but I'm still watching this space like everyone else.

As a secondary side point, it does make sense that we need to move some out, before adding. I've often suspected United genuinely wants to assist players departing in finding a mutually agreed new club. I think that's one of our selling points and what sets us apart. We generally don't push players out the door, push them to the highest bidder, etc. We certainly tend not to sideline players like city did with Adebayor and many others. We don't sign homegrown players just to rot in order to meet the quota. All in all, I think that's why it has taken time to shift players - we are actively trying to assist in finding them places where they can be successful. I don't think we have the "get the hell out" that other clubs have. And I think that's a big selling point for players thinking of coming to United. They will be treated well, even when it's time move on. Just my suspicion though.
We like our homegrown players, which is nice, but times have moved on. As you say other clubs just either buy the odd one and put them with kids in the squad, with no chance of them playing. They don't care, they want to win. They don't care about the England football team, why should they. We seem to go out to buy any English players available, even if they aren't good enough, because it's in our traditional. It isn't working, the team is suffering and we end up paying too much because they are English. They need a different strategy.
 

ghagua

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That's the problem when you have owners and CEO who don't know their arse from their elbow where players are concerned.
But there's your problem. The owners and CEO are not supposed to identify the players needed for the squad, since we don't have a director of football, it's up to the scouts and manager to identify the players. You can blame the CEO for failing to sign a target (Fabregas), but not for someone like Fellaini, that falls on the manager. Last summer, United could have signed Strootman, Gustavo or even Alcantara, but for some reason Moyes did not want them.
 

Orton

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The thing is we did have a good squad last season. With so many players leaving and especially our defence it's an absolute joke that we've only brought in a young left back. It was clear as soon as Rio and Vidic were announced to leave that we needed a new leader in defence, because Jones, Evans and Smalling are not good enough, and are always injured. We struggle to sign anybody, but maybe that's because we're over spending for guys like Shaw. Other clubs want to take us to the cleaners because they can.
 

Bole Top

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from challenging Barcelona to making it hard for Newcastle in just 3 years...
 

DomesticTadpole

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But there's your problem. The owners and CEO are not supposed to identify the players needed for the squad, since we don't have a director of football, it's up to the scouts and manager to identify the players. You can blame the CEO for failing to sign a target (Fabregas), but not for someone like Fellaini, that falls on the manager. Last summer, United could have signed Strootman, Gustavo or even Alcantara, but for some reason Moyes did not want them.
I know we don't want a sugar daddy, but do you think the president of Real would want the manager turning down the players he wants. They get the biggest names to keep the fans happy. Chelsea and City don't worry about going out and getting who they want, whoever the manager is.
 

Igor Drefljak

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Good article by TI.

Problem is, it feels like to many just sit and accept it.
It needs more blunt articles, fans showing their concerns, and hopefully people will take notice.

I worry that Woodward says things to make him look good, without actually delivering the goods.
It doesn't help that half the owners don't want us. They just use the club for profits. That is why we are where we are, and why City and Chelsea are currently where they are
 

DomesticTadpole

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The thing is we did have a good squad last season. With so many players leaving and especially our defence it's an absolute joke that we've only brought in a young left back. It was clear as soon as Rio and Vidic were announced to leave that we needed a new leader in defence, because Jones, Evans and Smalling are not good enough, and are always injured. We struggle to sign anybody, but maybe that's because we're over spending for guys like Shaw. Other clubs want to take us to the cleaners because they can.
That's lack of serious planning. You wonder what the setups at Chelsea/City etc are like. Is it just Ed Woodward dealing with this and he needs a manager to hold his hand, that he can't deal with it on his own.
 

DomesticTadpole

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Good article by TI.

Problem is, it feels like to many just sit and accept it.
It needs more blunt articles, fans showing their concerns, and hopefully people will take notice.

I worry that Woodward says things to make him look good, without actually delivering the goods.
It doesn't help that half the owners don't want us. They just use the club for profits. That is why we are where we are, and why City and Chelsea are currently where they are
I think Mike Calvin is a Millwall fan if I remember right, but sometimes it takes an outsider to see things clearly. We are blinded by loyalty sometimes.
 

0161_UNITED

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from challenging Barcelona to making it hard for Newcastle in just 3 years...
To be fair it should go, "From getting royally glove slapped by Barca televised in front of an international audience to making it difficult for Newcastle in 3 years." Go back and look at the meltdown after those Barca losses. This place was unmanageable.
 

Oneunited26

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I wanted to write my feelings on our transfers, but didn't want to start a new threat, but also, didn't feel there was a topic for it.

Why are we struggling? I think it is down to two things.
1. The Board, Woodward etc only want to sign players if they feel it is for a fair price
2. When we have bought players of late, they have either been a failure, younger players not progressing, or players who just simply haven't even played for us

I remember a few years ago, Bayern Munich bought Javi Martinez for 34m, and in my opinion, people where shocked at the fee, myself included, but, he was a player they felt would improve their squad, and where happy that the fee was good enough.

We just seem like a club that want the best deal, but nothing else. An example currently is Rojo. We have bid 16m or so, which is delaying the deal, yet we won't pay the 24m buy out clause, which could have had the deal wrapped up already, and been an asset, especially while Shaw is out.

As for point number 2. When we have spent, it's always been on the wrong players, for different reasons.
Mata - Very good player, but it's already made a dilemma on how can we play Rooney, RVP and him
Fellaini - Just doesn't work for a style of play United should go for. Fans have fallen out with him, I don't think LVG wants him, clubs don't wanna spend on him
Kagawa - I just don't think he is suited to the high intensity and quality of the Premier league, but again, was played out of position so much due to Rooney and RVP
Zaha - Rarely played, still young, but I think he will be sold soon
Jones - Bought as the future of Uniteds defence. He just has not progressed at all. Spends to much time on the floor, and making last ditch challenges to recover from his own mistakes
Smalling - Again, in my opinion has never really progressed like he should have. There is a high regard for him on here, but I just don't think he has done that much
Bebe - Well, Bebe
Valencia - He started off well, but he has just regressed if anything. He was bought to replace Ronaldo, and I think that shows the intent of the club

They are the transfers from the last 5 seasons, If I look back, the likes of Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves, berbatov etc could have been thrown in there.
Our last really successful window was the 05/06 season, albeit no expensive players, but the right players.

In the last 5 seasons:
United - Spent 267m / Sold 49.5m / Net 217.5m
Chelsea - Spent 409.5m / Sold 193.5m / Net 216m
Liverpool - Spent 324m / Sold 222m / Net 102m
Arsenal - Spent 228.5m / Sold 156m / Net 72.5m

So when you look at them figures, it shows we get absolute no resale value on players, excluding Ronaldo. We buy the wrong players, at the wrong times (Position, Age etc)
Them teams all currently have better squads than us, yet our net is the highest, albeit 1m above Chelsea, but it is still higher

(I came in here with no posts, I dread to think how many have been posted by now :lol:)
Like I have said on another thread, the real problem is the glazers, we have tolerated them under fergie because of the success, now they have nowhere too hide. Summer 2013 and 14 should see the final straw that broke the camels back with this lot, they need too go. This club will never experience the years we once had until we see changes in the boardroom, they have sucked has much blood out of this club that any leech could possibly do, their dad has died, its just time we saw changes to the ownership and hand over the keys to people who have the resources to see us compete to the levels we were once at before

Through the good times they have used fergie too the max, under Moyes they used him has the dead horse for others too beat him to death with, now a world class coach like van gaal has come in, and if we continue to get embarrassed, they cannot hide behind anymore, including woodward
 

Litch

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It's a massive concern. We all expected after last year, there would be a statement of intent. Something is very wrong at this club and if we don't sign some players, without being too knee jerk, could be worse than last season. Look at the defence. These are players that can't be relied on week in week out. Also what concerns me even more is there are so many players that have real poor injury histories. These are in essence squad players that we are now expecting to play like first team players. There are so many players there that know their days are numbered just we can't get them out because we can't get people in. We've also lost real leaders in the club. We need a least 4-5 players as there are players that will never come to terms for playing under a different regime to SAF. Teams don't fear us anymore and we are beatable.
 
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Speak

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First it's Sir Alex being too loyal, then it's Moyes' fault despite him clearly wanting Fabregas but not being backed. Then Woodward is apparently fully to blame, because he's sitting there with £200 million and licence to spend it but chooses not to just for a laugh. And now it may even be Van Gaal taking too long to realise what he needs.

All these guys with lots of cash in their hands, but too stupid to spend it.
Maybe, just maybe it's not any of them, and it's the one constant: the owners.
 

0161_UNITED

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Like I have said on another thread, the real problem is the glazers, we have tolerated them under fergie because of the success, now they have nowhere too hide. Summer 2013 and 14 should see the final straw that broke the camels back with this lot, they need too go. This club will never experience the years we once had until we see changes in the boardroom, they have sucked has much blood out of this club that any leech could possibly do, their dad has died, its just time we saw changes to the ownership and hand over the keys to people who have the resources to see us compete to the levels we were once at before

Through the good times they have used fergie too the max, under Moyes they used him has the dead horse for others too beat him to death with, now a world class coach like van gaal has come in, and if we continue to get embarrassed, they cannot hide behind anymore, including woodward
You might be right, mate. But I often feel it's speculative to blame the Glazers (or Moyes, or Woodward, or SAF for that matter) for everything going wrong under the sun, including Syria and El Niño (in the case of Moyes it seemed at times). I have an especially hard time reconciling this idea of SAF as a sellout company man for the Glazers. Some of you think so and that's fair and that's your right. In the case of Moyes, why didn't he just blast the Glazers, or Woodward? You can say money, or a NDA, but the man's career and reputation are in tatters, yet he didn't blast the Glazers? He said they were working on Fabregas, Ronaldo and Bale. Could you imagine if we had signed bloody Fabregas, Ronaldo and Bale? Christ almighty. If that happened tomorrow for LVG the Caf couldn't take strain Cap'n for weeks. And now we have LVG, sorry but I just cannot imagine all of SAF, Moyes, and LVG as company men just dancing along to the pied piper tune of the Glazer family. I may be wrong, but I'll be damned surprised if I am.
 

Spoony

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Still can't fathom how we could let three quality players go and not replace them. Sure they weren't in their prime but they were probably our best players in their respective positions.

And I'd love people to stop creaming them selves over friendly games. What's wrong with you folk?
 
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Oneunited26

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You might be right, mate. But I often feel it's speculative to blame the Glazers (or Moyes, or Woodward, or SAF for that matter) for everything going wrong under the sun, including Syria and El Niño (in the case of Moyes it seemed at times). I have an especially hard time reconciling this idea of SAF as a sellout company man for the Glazers. Some of you think so and that's fair and that's your right. In the case of Moyes, why didn't he just blast the Glazers, or Woodward? You can say money, or a NDA, but the man's career and reputation are in tatters, yet he didn't blast the Glazers? He said they were working on Fabregas, Ronaldo and Bale. Could you imagine if we had signed bloody Fabregas, Ronaldo and Bale? Christ almighty. If that happened tomorrow for LVG the Caf couldn't take strain Cap'n for weeks. And now we have LVG, sorry but I just cannot imagine all of SAF, Moyes, and LVG as company men just panting along to the pied piper tune if the Glazer family. I may be wrong, but I'll be damned surprised if I am.
It is no coincidence since the summer of 2009, the lack of maintenance on the club's key positions started to be left bear dry, prime example, no CM signing for 6 to 7 years, that is not normal. Now fergie built a team between 2006-2011 that saw us become the best club in england and europe, 4 PL titles, 1 Champions league crown, 1 world club cup, 2 league titles, 3 community shields, 1 FA cup final, and 2 champions league finals, that was the life cycle of that squad, 2006 to 2011, but we still did not look to rebuild the team.

Now you look at the success of our most money making campaign season, 2008/2009. Now consider the amount of money the club made on TV money, we won the PL, we won the league cup, won the world club cup, played in the super cup final, played in the community shield, got to the semi finals of the FA cup, these games add up. Count all those games together, plus the money we made off cristiano ronaldo transfer, saved the carlos tevez wages, letting go some of the squad players, and all we spent was about 22 million. The biggest club in the world does not decide after losing ronaldo we will not go out and add cover for rooney, when berbertov cannot cover rooney has the number 9.

So last summer and this summer still adds up looking in, that they still do not want too push the boat on an extra 2 players that will cost them 70 to 80 million, it is how allot of fans see it, even after finishing 7th, there are passengers still at this club
 

bishblaize

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The facts are we are struggling signing players. Forget the crap about CL football, city signed players at the start of their project without it. Same applies to the London rubbish. Tell a footballer your paying 10k more a week and see if he still wants to live in London? I'm sure some of those city signings would have been wanted by the other big teams too....it simple comes down to paying the money. The best teams are prepared to pay it. Pay 50m+ for Vidal, he'd be here. The best player are at the best clubs.

Many might argue but I'm convinced we have hit the transfer budget ceiling. We've spent 100m this year and Woodward can't make the numbers work. Glazers I believe won't allow him to spend a penny more without getting some in. I believe we were committed to buy Herrera and Shaw before LVG arrived. That's a dent of -70m and the idea that the Glazers were going to get the cheque book out and spend another 100m+ was absolutely laughable irrespective of how much money is coming in or the rhetoric that Woodward keeps spouting.
Can we at least wait til the transfer window closes before having this debate.
 

bdecuc

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Ok this is a depressing post.

I have no time for the Glazers. I genuinely think they are parasites. They'll be happy to continue to spend enough money (our effing money as fans btw) to have the club at a level that sort of competes. When the club makes statements about its financial muscle to compete at the highest level etc... I don't believe a word of it. There'll be enough money spent to keep us in with a reasonable expectation of making the champions league each season. That will keep most of the global merchandising income coming in to be siphoned off by the owners (to a large extent).

However for me that's not the biggest issue we face. It's not said enough but the sad reality is there's no way to compete with the oil money. Simple as that. The rules of the game have changed at the very top. We don't have the wherewithal to compete in the current scenario. Blaming Woodward or even to some extent Moyes may have some small merit in itself but the bigger picture is the important one.
 

Dylan94

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The squad is in a terrible state. Manchester United are supposed to be in that elite band of global footballing superpowers along with Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich etc. but when you ask yourself how many of our current players would walk into their starting 11's the answer is only 2. De Gea and Van Persie. The answer however should be more like 6 or 7.

We need a huge, huge reinvestment into this team over the next year or so otherwise we're just going to fall further and further behind the front runners and into mid table. LVG despite his genius can't get this current team challenging for the title and even getting us into the top 4 with no more signings this summer is going to be a big ask.

It's sad that this is the direction we are heading in at the moment because it doesn't need to be like this at all. And I just can't understand why the Glazers and the board aren't prepared to invest in the team. At the end of the day the money is what is important to them and the further we fall the more money it's going to cost them. In terms of sponsorship, tv deals, everything. For me the only way I can see this situation turning around is if the Glazers sell the club. Because to be good owners and to want to invest in a sports team you have to have a) money - which they have, and b) a passion for the sport - which they don't. You look at Abramovich, Sheik Mansoor, you can tell they have a passion for the game because their always seen at games and getting involved with club activities.

As I say unfortunately the only way I can see this situation changing in terms of serious money being spent to improve this team is with new owners. Otherwise it's just going to continue with a player here and a player there just to try and get by; which won't work.

We need to buy a new team. A new, quality player at every position. If you look at teams like Real, Bayern, City, Chelsea, they have almost two top quality players at every position. We don't even have one. Players like Herrera and Rooney, Mata, Jones, should be making our second starting 11 as quality back ups and or a strong bench for us. But their not world class. We should have better players than Young, Fletcher, Carrick, starting games for us for goodness sake.
 

Dylan94

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That's a bit much tbf!
Is it though? I don't think it is. Not for a Champions League winning squad which is where a club of this stature should be aiming at. Maybe with Rooney ok but not the others. Mata despite all the hype around him really hasn't been all that since he's come here. He needs other quality players around him to play well and that means that he isn't one himself. World Class players don't need other players to make things happen on the pitch, they do it themselves and we need more of those players in this team if we're to be successful again.
 

DomesticTadpole

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If we don't get in the CL again where will the Glazers get the money for the interest payments? They have managed the debt well so far because we have been successful. Will the money come out of any transfer budget? If yes, won't that make it virtually impossible to get into the CL. If they up the ticket prices they will be seriously asking for trouble.
 

Dylan94

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im starting to sense the glazers out campaign creeping back
I think it needs to come back again. Or things are only going to stay the same and eventually get worse from here on in.
 

RedDF

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we need to do something... a protest and preferably against sunderland before it's too late.

so many fans are just happy to complain about things on a forum but no one is doing shit about it and the glazers are laughing away because they're getting away with it.
 

Verminator

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"Dylan94, post: 16265236, member: 87430"]I think it needs to come back again. Or things are only going to stay the same and eventually get worse from here on in.
The thing is, a new owner will be unlikely to have 2 billion in their sky rocket, so we go through the same pain all over again. Or, we are floated, and do it all again in 5 years.
 

Dylan94

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Can we at least wait til the transfer window closes before having this debate.
No because for us the transfer window is already over. I really, really hope I'll be made to eat my words but I just can't see that I'll have to sadly.
 

2 man midfield

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I obviously wasn't around here in 2006 when we signed Evra and Vidic but what was the consensus then? They were dirt cheap and we were in the middle of our 3 year blip, a year after being taken over. I don't think we'll ever really know how stingy the Glazers are, all we can do is look at the evidence. We've spent quite a lot of money recently, and not all of it wisely. In fact you'd have to say most of it. Apart from RvP in 2012, who have we signed in the past 5 years that can be considered a success? Hernandez? Valencia to an extent? That's more worrying in my opinion.

Extend that to 10 years, and you've only got Van Der Sar , Rooney and Carrick. Perhaps Berba? But the fact is we aren't that great at spending money, and now we're in a position where the squad needs a great deal of it. Shit.

EDIT: 10k biatch.
 
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