Trequartista

[Nani Nana]

It would be worth giving a try to this tactic at least once. It's time to innovate to save football from the tedious 4-5-1 system.

 

[Nistelrooy10]

It would be worth giving a try to this tactic at least once. It's time to innovate to save football from the tedious 4-5-1 system.

I know Hiddink used it with Koreans in the WC and he might be using it with Russia, I'm not sure, but they do play good football

 

[Redfighter]

What the author doesn't address is that the "trequartista" position is one that requires a special talent, someone who can run a match and dictate play, and these players don't arrive regularly. Paul Scholes is such a player, or was when he played in a more advanced role. He is more like Pirlo now, a deep lying playmaker. You can't play a formation that accommodates a trequartista is you have no-one good enough for the position.

We have 2 such players, Berbatov and Rooney and hopefully we'll see them employed in this fashion more often next season.

 

[Feed Me]

What the author doesn't address is that the "trequartista" position is one that requires a special talent, someone who can run a match and dictate play, and these players don't arrive regularly. Paul Scholes is such a player, or was when he played in a more advanced role. He is more like Pirlo now, a deep lying playmaker. You can't play a formation that accommodates a trequartista is you have no-one good enough for the position.

We have 2 such players, Berbatov and Rooney and hopefully we'll see them employed in this fashion more often next season.

Neither Rooney or Berbatov are suited to the role.

Both are excellent players. But both are also, strikers.

 

[Suedesi]

I think that's right though some people don't agree. You can track it with Arsenal as Bergkamp moved from being a striker to playing deeper and deeper and supplying the bullets for Pires and Ljungberg.

Actually you can track it to another great Dutch forward. That was Marco Van Basten's role in his last year before getting injured at AC Milan. Daniele Massaro and/or Marco Simone were the out and out strikers.

 

[uae]

I don't get it. Is this player meant to be playing behind 2 strikers in a midfield diamond, or behind a single striker?

 

[Zen86]

He sounds good, sign him up

 

[Gio]

And what about punta mezzo or 9.5? To my mind the original playmaker was an inside forward in a 424 (usually the inside left or no.10). As we move forward to more crowded midfields and 442, 4411 etc the no.10 played in the hole - either an advanced midfielder or withdrawn forward.

Agree with this. The position has essentially developed from the inside forward, although Hungary's Hidegkuti was perhaps the best, earliest example of the role.

 

[Scholesy]

Its basically the player with the best football brain.

 

[ManUtdFan]

Its basically the player with the best football brain.

Not only that, they also need to have excellent passing skills and awareness.
In the case of our team, it would be Scholes, Rooney or perhaps Carrick. Not that sure about Berbatov though...
Scholes is getting on in age obviously and would not be much of a candidate for the long term. I can't see Carrick playing near that position at all, which leave Rooney.

 

[VoetbalWizard]

yoann gourcuff can be the next great trequartista.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I don't get it. Is this player meant to be playing behind 2 strikers in a midfield diamond, or behind a single striker?

Both

 

[Addis]

Not only that, they also need to have excellent passing skills and awareness.
In the case of our team, it would be Scholes, Rooney or perhaps Carrick. Not that sure about Berbatov though...
Scholes is getting on in age obviously and would not be much of a candidate for the long term. I can't see Carrick playing near that position at all, which leave Rooney.

Berbatov fits the playmaker role perfectly then. Excellent passing, technique, footballing intelligence and he's been playing as a withdrawn striker.

 

[Redfighter]

Neither Rooney or Berbatov are suited to the role.

Both are excellent players. But both are also, strikers.

Yes they are. Rooney and Berbatov are forwards, I would class neither as a striker, there is a huge difference. Rooney in particular has an excellent football brain and is perhaps the best English example of someone who could play this role, along with Lampard.

 

[Feed Me]

Yes they are. Rooney and Berbatov are forwards, I would class neither as a striker, there is a huge difference. Rooney in particular has an excellent football brain and is perhaps the best English example of someone who could play this role, along with Lampard.

Rooney could without doubt adapt to the role. He has the football brain.

Berbatov is fundamentally however, not a number 10. His make up is completely different to a Cantona, Zola or Bergkamp.

 

[peterstorey]

Agree with this. The position has essentially developed from the inside forward, although Hungary's Hidegkuti was perhaps the best, earliest example of the role.

I though he was basiccally an inside forward he just confused the hell out of Billy Wright by wearing a no.9 shirt. Sneaky foreigners.

 

[Ole_Gunnar]

Riquelme sat far, far deeper then this 'trequartista' position for Argentina. He more or less did the same as Scholes did in 06/07 only a little more left-sided...

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Rooney could without doubt adapt to the role. He has the football brain.

Berbatov is fundamentally however, not a number 10. His make up is completely different to a Cantona, Zola or Bergkamp.

Really?

He's done nothing to be compared an equal with them in terms of talent but I would have thought the role he plays for his team is often quite similar.

 

[Feed Me]

Really?

He's done nothing to be compared an equal with them in terms of talent but I would have thought the role he plays for his team is often quite similar.

Yeah, he's achieved no where near as much in terms of trophies, but here's hoping that he rectifies that during his time at United.

For my money, people are often mistaking a brilliant first touch and great technique with vision and the ability to play killer balls and dictate the play. I'm not saying Berbatov does not have the ability to do the latter, but I wouldn't say that it has been his forte throughout his career.

From what I have observed as Berbatov, he is a centre forward. He should utilise his brilliant touch in and around the penalty box. Contrary to his form last season, he is a very accomplished finisher.

He is just not the same sort of player as Bergkamp or Zola, both of whom were brilliant in executing the killer pass from the hole. I think Berbatov with his touch should be the type of player benefiting from those passes - hence I am an advocate of playing Rooney as the roaming striker and Berbatov as a focal point/target.

Cantona was a different player - equally adept and creating and scoring. His build was that of a centre forward - he was brutally elegant. His goal scoring record stands up to scrutiny with the best strikers of the 90s. He was a "9.5" in my eyes.

 

[uae]

Both

Surely that's where Berbatov has played for us all season then?

 

[711]

I would like to see England play in a 3-4-1-2 formation with Rio Ferdinand as the sweeper and either one of Rooney or Joe Cole as the trequartista.

What's this mean then? Rio as one of a back three, but a sweeper? So a back two then? Or Rio as a midfielder, back of a diamond sort of thing? Anyone?

 

[uae]

A sweeper generally plays behind 2 centre halves IIRC.

 

[711]

A sweeper generally plays behind 2 centre halves IIRC.

With no full-backs ? - he'd have his work cut out.

 

[uae]

Usually played with wing backs i think

 

[711]

Usually played with wing backs i think

sorry I edited a bit slow. yes, I could understand that, but that's not 3-4-1-2 as far as I can see. Then again, I'm not sure what is.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What's this mean then? Rio as one of a back three, but a sweeper? So a back two then? Or Rio as a midfielder, back of a diamond sort of thing? Anyone?

I'd just like to point out you're quoting the original article, not my personal opinion!

 

[711]

I'd just like to point out you're quoting the original article, not my personal opinion!

Sorry Pogue, cut and paste is about all I know how to do, I could just paste it anywhere really.

 

[Feed Me]

What's this mean then? Rio as one of a back three, but a sweeper? So a back two then? Or Rio as a midfielder, back of a diamond sort of thing? Anyone?

A sweeper generally plays behind 2 centre halves IIRC.

With no full-backs ? - he'd have his work cut out.

Usually played with wing backs i think

It is an interesting system and I think England has the personnel to make it work. It takes a brave man to introduce such tactical innovation though.

---Terry-Ferdinand-Lescott---
Hargreaves---------------Cole
-------Carrick----Gerrard-----
------------Cole-------------
--------Heskey-Rooney-------

Ferdinand building the play from the back and making a third central midfielder when England are in possession. Cole definetly has the creativity to play the role. The wing backs have a key role.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sorry Pogue, cut and paste is about all I know how to do, I could just paste it anywhere really.

Hey, no worries. It's a good question and I'm not sure exactly what he had in mind either.

I think he's talking about a back 3 consisting of 3 central defenders with Rio free to roam and bring the ball out of defence, 2 central midfielders in front of him and a couple of wing backs on either flank.

 

[peterstorey]

Riquelme sat far, far deeper then this 'trequartista' position for Argentina. He more or less did the same as Scholes did in 06/07 only a little more left-sided...

Yep, he's a play maker as is say Fabregas but not a trequartista, punta mezzo or 9.5 but maybe a no.10 or enganche.

 

[711]

Thanks gents, this sounds like the old 5-3-2, the sort of thing Martin O'Neill used to do a lot. The best ball-player at the back will tend to play it out, but I don't know if that makes him a sweeper. And if I remember rightly the wing-backs get knackered and then everyone generally gets forced back and they end up long-balling it. Oh well.

 

[Mozza]

Back 3's are dead, it's there to defend against a pair of forwards, half the teams don't play that way

 

[peterstorey]

Back 3's are dead, it's there to defend against a pair of forwards, half the teams don't play that way

The question now is, if you've only got one striker to defend against can you afford to keep two centrebacks doing it for most of the game?

 

[Mozza]

The question now is, if you've only got one striker to defend against can you afford to keep two centrebacks doing it for most of the game?

Yes, the basic rule in defending is one back for each man and a spare, it's the fullbacks who have to be busier against teams playing one upfront

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yes, the basic rule in defending is one back for each man and a spare, it's the fullbacks who have to be busier against teams playing one upfront

So you need three central defenders to defend against two strikers?

 

[relx]

It is an interesting system and I think England has the personnel to make it work. It takes a brave man to introduce such tactical innovation though.

---Terry-Ferdinand-Lescott---
Hargreaves---------------Cole
-------Carrick----Gerrard-----
------------Cole-------------
--------Heskey-Rooney-------

Ferdinand building the play from the back and making a third central midfielder when England are in possession. Cole definetly has the creativity to play the role. The wing backs have a key role.

Capello played a 3-4-1-2 when he was managing Roma; Totti or Nakata was their trequartista.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Would a proper defender, or a defensive minded midfielder be more accustomed to the sweeper role?

You'd think they'd have to be fairly mobile if they're going to do all the mopping up/distribution which would obviously rule out big powerful CB's, like Vidic. Would someone like Hargreaves be suited to a 'Sweeper' role?

 

[vijay]

And what about punta mezzo or 9.5? To my mind the original playmaker was an inside forward in a 424 (usually the inside left or no.10). As we move forward to more crowded midfields and 442, 4411 etc the no.10 played in the hole - either an advanced midfielder or withdrawn forward.

Trequartistas are more related to 4-4-(1)-1, atleast from this formation this terminology came to existence. Normally this system requires an aggressive distributor from the CM Socrates, Donadoni, to Paddy Vieira have all excelled from the middle with the player in the hole being lazy yet creative. Baggio, Rivaldo, Bergkamp to Kaka, Totti and Messi role in some matches whenwver he operates in a free role are all withdrawn forwards or the players in the hole. Normally a withdrawn forward ends up as second highest goal scorer behind the target forward.

4-2-3-1 is more suited for Enganches the two CM's in the middle barely operating on the attacking third but the enganche or the real no 10 covering 3/4 of the pitch- they are not necessarily guaged on direct assists or goals. Zidane in Roger Lemerre's France and Del Bosque's Real Madrid being a prime example. Also these enganches can reveal in other systems 3-3-1-3 or 3-5-2 the predesscors for the modern 4-2-3-1.

Rest Daliglish to Rooney, Messi are all 9.5's at best an attacking forward.

 

[Brwned]

Yeah, he's achieved no where near as much in terms of trophies, but here's hoping that he rectifies that during his time at United.

For my money, people are often mistaking a brilliant first touch and great technique with vision and the ability to play killer balls and dictate the play. I'm not saying Berbatov does not have the ability to do the latter, but I wouldn't say that it has been his forte throughout his career.

From what I have observed as Berbatov, he is a centre forward. He should utilise his brilliant touch in and around the penalty box. Contrary to his form last season, he is a very accomplished finisher.

He is just not the same sort of player as Bergkamp or Zola, both of whom were brilliant in executing the killer pass from the hole. I think Berbatov with his touch should be the type of player benefiting from those passes - hence I am an advocate of playing Rooney as the roaming striker and Berbatov as a focal point/target.

Cantona was a different player - equally adept and creating and scoring. His build was that of a centre forward - he was brutally elegant. His goal scoring record stands up to scrutiny with the best strikers of the 90s. He was a "9.5" in my eyes.

This season, when he was on form, I thought his most prominent attributes were his vision and eye for a killer pass. Whenever he played alongside Rooney, which wasn't a lot once he had gotten settled unfortunately, he was always looking for the killer ball in behind to him or Ronaldo and he picked them out beautifully plenty of times.

And I'd say that description of Cantona is exactly how I'd describe Berbatov, so I'm surprised you think he's not like Berbatov.

 

[peterstorey]

OK, can we say:

9.5/withdrawn striker - Rooney, Dalglish.
Trequartista/punta mezzo - Baggio, Bergkamp (10s?)
Enganche/inside forward - Zidane, Riquelme (also 10s)

Ie spectrum that runs from a pure forward to a pure midfielder?