UAP - Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon

[altodevil]

I'm currently doing my dissertation on it. I don't think we will ever have a definitive answer unless we can get the uncertainties in direct dating down to thousands of years instead of tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands. From the literature I have read the dinosaurs were certainly in decline prior to the boundary, and a lot of the cause of that is the environmental turmoil caused by volcanism. Volcanism is unarguably linked to four other of the big five mass extinctions, so it seems somewhat obtuse to rule them out as the cause for the Cretaceous-Palaeogene mass extinction in favour of a theory that has no precedence for causing a mass extinction in Earth's history. Personally I think the Deccan Traps put the environment in a place of high stress that species could not recover from the impact; I would also say had the impact not happened, volcanism would be regarded as the sole cause of the mass extinction.

All that being said, I'm all in on the space ship

Do I smell a fellow Geologist?

 

[That'sHernandez]

Do I smell a fellow Geologist?

Aspiring

 

[Salt Bailly]

Shit just got real over on the Congress live feed:

Spoiler

 

[Red in STL]

I'm trying to figure out what Trump's going to say about all this, it's either going to be 'Why didn't hey tell me about this, the Deep State is terrible" or it's going to be "Our aliens are the biggest and the best, and will Make America Great Again"

 

[Redlambs]

I think the difficult bit is that when you combine the massive massive distances with converging timelines contact becomes more and more difficult. Not only do other civilisations have to have travelled absolutely mind boggling distances but they have to have arrived here during a very narrow window of time to be here when we are at this level of civilisation. Its entirely possible but incredibly unlikely. On a galactic timescale modern human technology is the tiniest of slivers. Our radio waves have only travelled so far since we started sending them out and they have attenuated a massive amount as they stretch further out.
I am sure there are beings out there far far smarter than us but the sheer volume of planets, stars and galaxies mixed with timescales and distances is still daunting.

Yep.

If anything, I think the arrogance is us thinking we'd even spot them anyway or that they'd bother with such an insignificant planet in the first place.

 

[Stack]

This is a good video explaining just one problem of alien contact.

Stolen from the comments of this video for purposes of context . "We can only detect Voyager signals because we know exactly where they are coming from, and exactly what we are looking for."

 

[Wittmann45]

Jesus, how can this hearing not end up on the front pages of every newsout in the world tomorrow? Some of the questions congress are asking im stunned they are asking in a live public forum.

https://www.youtube.com/live/EFuxUvUOD0Q?feature=share

The question about whistleblowers being murdered, drew a gasp from the room.

I really don't know how to feel about some of the stuff I heard Grusch say. Part of it is that he cannot simply reveal classified documents or the specifics of those documents in such a public forum. People expect him to spill all the beans without thinking of the implications of that - not just to some conspiracy about threats on his life, but literal US laws he would be up against. I am sure all three men have legal counsel that kept them informed on what they were allowed to say. I am very skeptical at this point without more, but it was fascinating stuff.

However, one of the more interesting things about today is the apathy with which people have responded. Again, it could just be the lack of real information, but it matches well with the release of the Pentagon videos - people just don't care that much it seems. Even in the other thread on here, a lot of the replies are just "Duh, dumb Americans" as if Commander Fravor is just some backward hillbilly type who can barely read. Its just an odd reaction.

I don't know what would happen if real evidence was ever released, and I do think it would be a seismic change, but who knows? It would be crazy that, assuming everything Grusch said was real, that the US government has killed potential whistleblowers over information they thought would cause panic/revolt that, when actually released to the public, simply becomes popular internet memes for a couple days before people stop caring.

 

[VorZakone]

Shit just got real over on the Congress live feed:

Spoiler

Will Smith about to slap some aliens around.

 

[JagUTD]

Personally, having heard this theory a few times, I think it’s quite arrogant of humans to think that other beings out there aren’t smarter than us and therefore unable to make craft to travel those distances

I'd say life beyond earth is almost a certainty. The universe is to vast for there not to be.

The same vastness though also makes the concept of any life ever being able to travel freely around the universe unlikely. More localised travel may be achievable as we ourselves are capable of it already, but intergalactic travel? Not sure and not really sure why any species would want to do it. Pretty sure it would be easier to extract resources from their own galaxies than travel trillions of miles, over timescales that would likely mean it would be your descendants returning to your home planet which might not know who your were or even exist by the time you did return.

Even at the speed of light, it would take us 50 years just to reach the nearest galaxy and return.

 

[MrMarcello]

Dinosaurs were killed by volcanism

Are you 100% certain not by Vulcans?

 

[nimic]

I'd say life beyond earth is almost a certainty. The universe is to vast for there not to be.

The same vastness though also makes the concept of any life ever being able to travel freely around the universe unlikely. More localised travel may be achievable as we ourselves are capable of it already, but intergalactic travel? Not sure and not really sure why any species would want to do it. Pretty sure it would be easier to extract resources from their own galaxies than travel trillions of miles, over timescales that would likely mean it would be your descendants returning to your home planet which might not know who your were or even exist by the time you did return.

Even at the speed of light, it would take us 50 years just to reach the nearest galaxy and return.

At the speed of light it would either take 5 million years (for an observer) or no time at all (for the travelers). But otherwise you're spot on.

Edit: I guess I assumed you meant Andromeda, but there are smaller galaxies much closer to us than that. Would still be tens of thousands of years at least, but maybe not millions.

 

[JagUTD]

At the speed of light it would either take 5 million years (for an observer) or no time at all (for the travelers). But otherwise you're spot on.

Edit: I guess I assumed you meant Andromeda, but there are smaller galaxies much closer to us than that. Would still be tens of thousands of years at least, but maybe not millions.

I'll be honest, I Googled how close the nearest one was and didn't even look at the name. It said 25000 light years so yeh, it wouldn't be 50 years (some reason I decided it was 25 light years away) but more like 50000 years.

 

[lsd]

If there are aliens and they come to earth would we prefer them as United owners to the Glazers?

 

[nimic]

If there are aliens and they come to earth would we prefer them as United owners to the Glazers?

I think I would still prefer the Glazers. I don't want a state to own my club, and that extends to galactic empires. We'd just be a sportswashing project to prove that they come in peace.

 

[JagUTD]

If there are aliens and they come to earth would we prefer them as United owners to the Glazers?

Someone needs to photoshop Anfield over the White House in the Independence Day gif posted earlier.

 

[Simbo]

When theorising about interstellar stuff and the chronology you have to consider, further considering that we only discovered electricity barely 100 years ago I think its fair to say we know shit about feck and can't really have an opinion on the matter.

 

[Redplane]

When theorising about interstellar stuff and the chronology you have to consider, further considering that we only discovered electricity barely 100 years ago I think its fair to say we know shit about feck and can't really have an opinion on the matter.

I think this is the only way to approach it really. Its a bit like the thought that all we can do and conceive is things as we know them, shapes, sounds, colors, you name it. We put them in boxes we understand.

 

[nimic]

When theorising about interstellar stuff and the chronology you have to consider, further considering that we only discovered electricity barely 100 years ago I think its fair to say we know shit about feck and can't really have an opinion on the matter.

But we can only theorize using what we actually know, that's what science is, as opposed to sci-fi. I think it's a bit unfair to say we know shit about feck. We took a picture of a black hole. We've got pictures of planets orbiting other stars. We figured out the big bang, we figured out that the universe is expanding, and that it's accelerating. We also know that there are things we don't know much about, such as dark matter and dark energy, and a whole lot more.

 

[dinostar77]

I really don't know how to feel about some of the stuff I heard Grusch say. Part of it is that he cannot simply reveal classified documents or the specifics of those documents in such a public forum. People expect him to spill all the beans without thinking of the implications of that - not just to some conspiracy about threats on his life, but literal US laws he would be up against. I am sure all three men have legal counsel that kept them informed on what they were allowed to say. I am very skeptical at this point without more, but it was fascinating stuff.

However, one of the more interesting things about today is the apathy with which people have responded. Again, it could just be the lack of real information, but it matches well with the release of the Pentagon videos - people just don't care that much it seems. Even in the other thread on here, a lot of the replies are just "Duh, dumb Americans" as if Commander Fravor is just some backward hillbilly type who can barely read. Its just an odd reaction.

I don't know what would happen if real evidence was ever released, and I do think it would be a seismic change, but who knows? It would be crazy that, assuming everything Grusch said was real, that the US government has killed potential whistleblowers over information they thought would cause panic/revolt that, when actually released to the public, simply becomes popular internet memes for a couple days before people stop caring.

It could be apathy, it could be that people accept that we arent alone in the universe and that news such as this isnt a shock.

Look at the Time magazine headline. Its not going to cause mass panic on the streets, i think theres an acceptance amongst a percentage of people that its about time we were told we arent alone. Its will be news for a few days then blow over and life carries on. If they were to say species X came from planet X on the other side of the galaxy. Great. Again after a few days it would blow over and life carries on.

With the discoveries James Webb teleacope is making, its only a matter of time before it detects signs of industrial processes on a distant planet somewhere. Great its headline news for a few days, but life goes on.

I think people have been conditioned via media to accept that we arent alone and offical acknowledge would hardly be a shock.

One thing i can understand, is keeping any technology, materials, biologicals secret. If the sciences dont currently exist to back enginner stuff, then you have to keep it locked away until science catches up. You cant put a dollar value on tech thats 100, 1000, 10,000 years more advanced than what we currently have.

As congress said today, this is just the tip of the iceberg, will be interesting to see where it goes next.

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[Woodzy]

What time does Will Smith take the stand?

 

[Oranges038]

That's going to be mighty difficult considering they are all living at the centre of the earth.

I somehow find that very hard to believe.

I'm currently doing my dissertation on it. I don't think we will ever have a definitive answer unless we can get the uncertainties in direct dating down to thousands of years instead of tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands. From the literature I have read the dinosaurs were certainly in decline prior to the boundary, and a lot of the cause of that is the environmental turmoil caused by volcanism. Volcanism is unarguably linked to four other of the big five mass extinctions, so it seems somewhat obtuse to rule them out as the cause for the Cretaceous-Palaeogene mass extinction in favour of a theory that has no precedence for causing a mass extinction in Earth's history. Personally I think the Deccan Traps put the environment in a place of high stress that species could not recover from the impact; I would also say had the impact not happened, volcanism would be regarded as the sole cause of the mass extinction.

All that being said, I'm all in on the space ship

I'll allow you to build your dissertation around the spaceship theory.

 

[Stack]

The "denial of science" era combined with the rise of conspiracy theories and the massive increase in seriously moronic people becoming public figures (MTG etc etc) conveniently coincides with the sort of hearings Congress is currently experiencing keeps convincing me that Movies such as "Dont Look Up" and "Idiocracy" are not movies at all but documentaries

 

[neverdie]

That aliens exist is not something I doubt. It would be insane to assume they didn't as the physical universe is infinite. Infinite space, time, mass, and possibility. You don't have to do the math, it's already done for you (all is possible over such an expanse). Would also count as to what you classify as alien. Presumably an embodied creature of some kind. Pretty low threshold for "life" given the, again, infinite universe we live in. Likely to find certain fossil records within our own solar system of various kinds, if only small scale type cellular organisms. As to whether they've visited earth. Possible. But absolutely zero proof. A more interesting thesis is the interconnectedness of ancient societies some seven thousand years ago. There was a lot of travelling going on, globally, that people don't have any written record of. An alien history of our own species.

 

[JagUTD]

When theorising about interstellar stuff and the chronology you have to consider, further considering that we only discovered electricity barely 100 years ago I think its fair to say we know shit about feck and can't really have an opinion on the matter.

That's a negative way to look at it.

 

[nimic]

With the discoveries James Webb teleacope is making, its only a matter of time before it detects signs of industrial processes on a distant planet somewhere. Great its headline news for a few days, but life goes on.

I think people have been conditioned via media to accept that we arent alone and offical acknowledge would hardly be a shock.

IMO it's absurd to just assume that JWST is going to discover alien life - particularly since there's no reason why one of our other many, many telescopes couldn't have seen it if it was out there and possible for us to find in the first place. But it's even more absurd to say that it would "hardly be a shock". It would be the biggest news story ever.

 

[neverdie]

The "denial of science" era combined with the rise of conspiracy theories and the massive increase in seriously moronic people becoming public figures (MTG etc etc) conveniently coincides with the sort of hearings Congress is currently experiencing keeps convincing me that Movies such as "Dont Look Up" and "Idiocracy" are not movies at all but documentaries

Had that thought myself not so long ago. Someone once said, too, that whenever something serious is happening, like class relations, or so on, the American Government loves to bring out a JFK archive or an alien story. Any old mental shit to keep more relevant stuff all the way off the news.

 

[JagUTD]

I somehow find that very hard to believe.

That's because the world's governments, illuminated people and of course, big drilling have been covering it up for decades.

 

[Stack]

When theorising about interstellar stuff and the chronology you have to consider, further considering that we only discovered electricity barely 100 years ago I think its fair to say we know shit about feck and can't really have an opinion on the matter.

Whilst there is a massive amount we dont know I think we do know a reasonable amount that enables us to make reasonably educated guesses with respect to distances and distances.

 

[That'sHernandez]

IMO it's absurd to just assume that JWST is going to discover alien life - particularly since there's no reason why one of our other many, many telescopes couldn't have seen it if it was out there and possible for us to find in the first place. But it's even more absurd to say that it would "hardly be a shock". It would be the biggest news story ever.

To be fair other telescopes haven’t had the resolution to find biomarkers in exoplanet atmospheres before JWST. That’s not to say it’s a given it will find anything; and any discovery it makes is only a suggestion as we don’t necessarily know the physics or system on that world to discount abiotic production, as with phosphine in cloud decks on Venus.

 

[Simbo]

But we can only theorize using what we actually know, that's what science is, as opposed to sci-fi. I think it's a bit unfair to say we know shit about feck. We took a picture of a black hole. We've got pictures of planets orbiting other stars. We figured out the big bang, we figured out that the universe is expanding, and that it's accelerating. We also know that there are things we don't know much about, such as dark matter and dark energy, and a whole lot more.

Yeah well, 100 years ago we also thought we knew a lot.

 

[nimic]

Yeah well, 100 years ago we also thought we knew a lot.

Okay, so just throw out anything we know and say "imagine if..."? You can do that for sure, and it can be fun, but it will get boring quick because you can say literally anything about anything. Maybe Hollow Earth is real? We haven't actually drilled that far into the Earth, and for all we know all our other measurements are wrong, or maybe there's an advanced civilization living there and they mess with our data. Or what if Roland Emmerich is actually a whistleblower, and Moonfall was meant to reveal the truth that the moon is hollow and also an alien AI and it's going to crash into the Earth any day now. Who's to say?

 

[nimic]

To be fair other telescopes haven’t had the resolution to find biomarkers in exoplanet atmospheres before JWST.

Is this true? I was sure we'd analyzed the atmospheric compositions of exoplanets through observing light passing through it in the past. I remember at least one time when there was a debate whether or not something was an indication of life or not, which I'm sure happened before they finally launched JWST.

 

[Stack]

Yeah well, 100 years ago we also thought we knew a lot.

I know analogies can be shit but this is the best way I can currently think of to explain what Im thinking.
50 years ago we had CRT tvs. We had no idea then that LED and LCD tvs could be a thing. What we did know was that we could transmit and receive video signals
Right now we know some of the broad brushstrokes of things interstellar however we have no idea of other possible technologies that could help us. We dont know what it is we dont know but we do have an idea of whats going on.

 

[Simbo]

Okay, so just throw out anything we know and say "imagine if..."? You can do that for sure, and it can be fun, but it will get boring quick because you can say literally anything about anything. Maybe Hollow Earth is real? We haven't actually drilled that far into the Earth, and for all we know all our other measurements are wrong, or maybe there's an advanced civilization living there and they mess with our data. Or what if Roland Emmerich is actually a whistleblower, and Moonfall was meant to reveal the truth that the moon is hollow and also an alien AI and it's going to crash into the Earth any day now. Who's to say?

I may have exaggerated slightly, but you get my point.

 

[dinostar77]

IMO it's absurd to just assume that JWST is going to discover alien life - particularly since there's no reason why one of our other many, many telescopes couldn't have seen it if it was out there and possible for us to find in the first place. But it's even more absurd to say that it would "hardly be a shock". It would be the biggest news story ever.

James Webb is making all sorts of discoveries because its the most powerful space telescope we've ever built and as it looks in infra-red it cuts out alot of the crap that gets in the way of visible light, its not impossible that eventually such a discovery would be made. Yeah it would be a shock to some people, but to many others not so much. The millenial generation onwards, dont see any issue with our galaxy being full of sentient life? Why because thats the narritive that tv and movies are selling.

So they discover a planet that harbours sentient life 30,000 light years from us. So what? We cant talk to them. We cant visit them. We wouldnt know anything about them or their culture. Give it a week or so and people will move onto other news and other stuff. If you ever wanted to "officially" break the news to our planet that we arent alone in the universe, doing it via James Webb would be the safest and most sensible way.

 

[nimic]

I may have exaggerated slightly, but you get my point.

I do, sure. I just have an instinctive reaction to push back against anything that lets conspiracy theorists (not you) off the hook a bit.

 

[Wibble]

The truth is out there

 

[Red in STL]

What time does Will Smith take the stand?

When Tommy Lee Jones lets him, they're probably running down their black suits

 

[Stack]

So aliens who have the ability and technology to travel millions of light years to visit then crash when they get here………
seems plausible they would be that incompetent with the parallel parking

 

[Bwuk]

So aliens who have the ability and technology to travel millions of light years to visit then crash when they get here………
seems plausible they would be that incompetent with the parallel parking

Maybe female aliens mate?