Acole9
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- Feb 17, 2013
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Burgon just got proper mugged off then.
Burgon just got proper mugged off then.
Hmm I'm not so sure about that, I think he may have put some potential voters off. Labour should've sent Rebecca Long-Bailey again or Emily Thornberry.It was too good to be true that he would pass the whole debate without a signature moment. Thankfully it wasn’t more than that. Overall not a bad performance.
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The issue with Burgon is he's not very likable is he? Comes over so fake and smug. Not sure why Labour send him on these things.It was too good to be true that he would pass the whole debate without a signature moment. Thankfully it wasn’t more than that. Overall not a bad performance.
Lots around my area either don't like them or barely know they exist. It's odd, but I think has much to do with Leanne Wood not coming across brilliantly in the past.Shame I don't live in Wales, Plaid would be such an easy party to vote for.
the iPhone comment was clearly sarcasm...You think living in more equal society means everyone giving up their iPhones(You aren't the first ill informed tory on here who thinks getting rid of iPhones is the answer to all our problems).
So why did you say you would ?
Anyway the reality is your a land lord, the labour party can't win you over without destroying the party base and really the only thing that annoys me about people like yourself(Bar of course the awful actions that happen due to the way you vote, e.g. British weapons being used to kill kids in Yemen)is the lack of honesty. Why bother saying its somehow the fault of the Labour Party for no wining you over when you have multiple properties, why lie about how people love renting and don't in fact want to buy a home, why act surprised when people insult you because your voting for a party that has destroyed the very poorest in this country over last decade and finally the warped idea that you voting tory isn't in your own self interest.
Although in fairness you lot have never really changed -
“The Tories in England long imagined that they were enthusiastic about monarchy, the church, and the beauties of the old English Constitution, until the day of danger wrung from them the confession that they are enthusiastic only about ground rent.”
The issue with Burgon is that, in a mirror image of someone like Patel being Home Secretary, it shows how much talent has been cast aside in the interests of loyalty to the leader.The issue with Burgon is he's not very likable is he? Comes over so fake and smug. Not sure why Labour send him on these things.
You say this but..........the iPhone comment was clearly sarcasm...
Sarcasm again ?stealing private property
Economists and academics back Labour spending planswhilst I’m a landlord, I also work with the NHS, so I have a particular interest in that aspect, and whilst the cuts have been severe, I believe that if we look at where we are now - labour will be a worse option for the country.
A 4 day week was firstly a goal to aim towards in the future(Some unions in German have won a 4 working week btw and liberals used to think something similar, although in fairness a certain Mr Keynes wasn't a fan of landlords), renationalising is literally common place for most developed countries. What labour intend to do wouldn't even put Britain anywhere near the top in terms of state involvement. Labour are offering a standard model of 21st century social democracy, they aren't offering any type of socialism(Once again you've shown just how ill-informed you are and also how right wing ''centrist'' tories really are).It appears to me that they have put out a survey of what people might want and tried to go with populist policies with no thought or analysis behind it. A 4 day week, re-nationalisation and stealing private property (seems to be now dropped) are three that just won’t work.
Honestly it would less time consuming to say your voting tory because its in your interest, rather than typing this sort of shite(Which was the whole point of my last post).mots like asking the Caf who Utd should be buying in the next transfer window and just doing it (admittedly, not the best example given the state of our squad!!! Although you get my point if I substituted in Liverpool or City[unfortunately]).
No clearly not. Labour proposed a policy where a tenant can force a landlord to sell them their property, with no consideration of costs - for example what happens if the landlord has a 10 year fixed rate mortgage with 5% penalties if they sell, who pay for that? Its completely unworkableYou say this but..........
Sarcasm again ?
so are we not allowed an opinion joe, or should we all just acquiesce to the opinion of an article you quote? Look, I have not resorted to name calling and quoting of articles that support my opinion to try and ratify my perspective. Let’s agree that we have different opinions and perspectives. As an economist, I can quote a good economics joke (... yes there are many!). For example the Lib Dems have predicted 10 out of the last 2 recessions.Economists and academics back Labour spending plans
https://www.ft.com/content/d29b4cbe-0fa4-11ea-a225-db2f231cfeae
But hey what do they know, right ? You are after all a well informed voter.
I am a centralist, not right wing.A 4 day week was firstly a goal to aim towards in the future(Some unions in German have won a 4 working week btw and liberals used to think something similar, although in fairness a certain Mr Keynes wasn't a fan of landlords), renationalising is literally common place for most developed countries. What labour intend to do wouldn't even put Britain anywhere near the top in terms of state involvement. Labour are offering a standard model of 21st century social democracy, they aren't offering any type of socialism(Once again you've shown just how ill-informed you are and also how right wing ''centrist'' tories really are).
It’s in the interest of the country. It’s fine to disagree with me, as many will do (we are a divided country), but making assumptions about me and my opinion merely details the debate. If we had a centralist proposal, I would vote for them, and as I’ve said previously I’ve voted labour, but I firmly believe this labour incarnation would be even worse than this Tory government.Honestly it would less time consuming to say your voting tory because its in your interest, rather than typing this sort of shite(Which was the whole point of my last post).
Christ, that's fecking outrageous to make that claim.Rishi Sunak describing himself as an example of Britain's meritocracy because his parents are migrants.
What he doesn't mention is that he went to a £40k a year school and is married to the daughter of a billionaire venture capitalist, whom he worked for before becoming an MP.
I'm curious (putting my lefty boxing gloves on the floor because I'm in a good mood) so do you have time to answer a couple of questions?I am a centralist, not right wing.
Yeah Labour right to buy isn't stealing property, Mcdonnell has said it will be at a reasonable price, the policy was even backed by a centre right think tank -No clearly not. Labour proposed a policy where a tenant can force a landlord to sell them their property, with no consideration of costs - for example what happens if the landlord has a 10 year fixed rate mortgage with 5% penalties if they sell, who pay for that? Its completely unworkable
However, the maximum discount would be capped at £77,900 (the same maximum applies to sales of social housing) so the house would be sold to the tenant for £322,100. This would give the landlord a taxable capital gain of £122,100. But the capital gains tax (CGT) concession would reduce the sum liable to tax to £44,200. The landlord would therefore end up paying CGT of £9,268 – leaving a post-tax capital gain of £112,832 on the original investment of £200,000. Saunders adds: “Even if a tenant qualifies for a maximum discount of £77,900 (or £103,900 in London), these landlords will still enjoy handsome capital gains if they are obliged to sell. The
discounts they would have to offer to their tenants would merely share out some of the windfall gains they have been making over the last decade or two.”
Yeah and I'm at the top of Rihanna feck list. Just saying something doesn't make it true. Its no surprise that you liked New Labour(One of the most right wing versions of late 90/early 2000's liberal politics), the softest of the soft centre left Ed Miliband was too much for you, basic 21st social democracy of this Labour Party is in your view Mao stealing everyone land and now your voting for the hard brexit/deport all the blacks tory party.I am a centralist, not right wing.
Yes that exactly what I said, you can't have a opinion. Are you even reading my posts ?so are we not allowed an opinion joe, or should we all just acquiesce to the opinion of an article you quote? Look, I have not resorted to name calling and quoting of articles that support my opinion to try and ratify my perspective. Let’s agree that we have different opinions and perspectives. As an economist, I can quote a good economics joke (... yes there are many!). For example the Lib Dems have predicted 10 out of the last 2 recessions.
Or, What do you call an economist that makes a prediction? Wrong!
It’s in the interest of the country. It’s fine to disagree with me, as many will do (we are a divided country), but making assumptions about me and my opinion merely details the debate. If we had a centralist proposal, I would vote for them, and as I’ve said previously I’ve voted labour, but I firmly believe this labour incarnation would be even worse than this Tory government.
Mate, your literally voting to - further the homelessness crisis, keep the benefits sanctions that attack disabled people and further the crisis of food banks(Plus so much more, sadly). This has nothing to do with the interest of the country and everything to do with your own self interest, which ok fine whatever at this point but just be honest about it.“The Tories in England long imagined that they were enthusiastic about monarchy, the church, and the beauties of the old English Constitution, until the day of danger wrung from them the confession that they are enthusiastic only about ground rent.”
I keep telling myself to stay out of this thread as nothing good ever comes from me posting hereEvery tory voter around the country is this
Isaid it before on this thread, and I believe it’s a mantra on this forum not to insult the posters - so calling me a massive bell end really negates any argument you may have.Yeah Labour right to buy isn't stealing property, Mcdonnell has said it will be at a reasonable price, the policy was even backed by a centre right think tank -
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jun/11/jeremy-corbyn-right-to-buy-plan-backed-by-thinktank
Yeah and I'm at the top of Rihanna feck list. Just saying something doesn't make it true. Its no surprise that you liked New Labour(One of the most right wing versions of late 90/early 2000's liberal politics), the softest of the soft centre left Ed Miliband was too much for you, basic 21st social democracy of this Labour Party is in your view Mao stealing everyone land and now your voting for the hard brexit/deport all the blacks tory party.
Yes that exactly what I said, you can't have a opinion. Are you even reading my posts ?
I posted that FT article as evidence to show that the idea Labour plans will make the UK economy worse off is in fact a load of shite. Now if your counter claim to this is to literally posts some jokes then................
Mate, your literally voting to - further the homelessness crisis, keep the benefits sanctions that attack disabled people and further the crisis of food banks(Plus so much more, sadly). This has nothing to do with the interest of the country and everything to do with your own self interest, which ok fine whatever at this point but just be honest about it.
We aren't just have a debate or disagreement over who should start up front for United. We are talking about people lives and the effects we have on them by voting. I'm sure your a nice bloke to your friends and family, I'm guessing you might help a few charities but outside of this tiny zone you are actually doing a ton of damage and well overall being a massive bell end. But hey on the positive side you are wealthy enough not to face the shit reality that is caused by your own voting decisions.
Will you stop whining about being slightly worse off with your multiple homes. There are people actually suffering out there, it's insensitive. You're not generous and you're not considerate if your main consideration in our countries biggest decision is how many homes you can own without paying some extra tax.I keep telling myself to stay out of this thread as nothing good ever comes from me posting here
But you know, although we obviously don’t agree on some things and from your posts I can see how your views of the Conservative Party have been formed. It sounds like there has been some tough times in your family for which I’m sorry to hear. Believe it or not I’m not a million miles away from being a Labour voter myself.
But this post is wrong. To assume all people who are voting Conservative are ‘this’ is silly. Some people, like me, are more than likely holding their noses and voting Conservative to ensure Labour don’t win despite being previous Labour voters. I’m not voting for who I want in office, I’m voting for the party that has the best chance of keeping this current Labour Party out of office.
So yes, some of us know deep down what we are voting for indirectly but because of specific policies that affect us and our families directly, and some of the more socialist plans and ideas just find the current Labour Party unappealing. It’s not quite as simple as you’re making out in your post.
I would have just as hard a time as that caller finding a reason to admire Boris but that still doesn’t change how I’ll vote.
Labour lost me the minute they announced their proposed changes to IHT and some of the ideas aimed at landlords. Now I know they’ve apparently watered the right to buy plans in the last week or so but the fact they have this way of thinking makes me very wary of them.
As you know, I inherited my 2nd home when my own parents died. It is my family home, where I grew up and it will pretty much be my pension throughout my old age so the thought of being forced to sell it at a ‘reasonable price’ triggered a very strong inner emotion.
Effectively I would have to sell my past, my present and mine and my children’s future. How could I vote for that? Like I said, I know this has apparently been watered down but even so, it displays either a way of thinking or even worse, a lack of thinking that makes it very hard for me to want to vote Labour.
I understand they want rich people to shoulder a larger burden and want to try and improve conditions for the poor but I fall into neither category so I would expect my situation to be left pretty much alone.
That’s not to say I would be opposed to certain tax rises that are taken from my salary or even my rental income, but to take it as a lump sum from my children on my death is another thing entirely.
At each election it is a balancing act. 1) what will this mean for the country? 2) What will this mean to me and my family? For this election I am more concerned by question 2. Yes, this could be viewed as selfish, and if so, then I accept that as I view myself as largely a considerate and generous person, but do I want to help my own children as much as I can? Yes.
I have always, long before this election, viewed IHT as a spiteful tax, a cynical grab of assets that normal families have worked hard for and already been taxed on and I feel that the current levels are fine. They allow pretty average families to pass the family home down to their children and no argument in the world will convince me this is wrong.
For me, rightly or wrongly this is pretty much a one policy election and it’s not Brexit.
There's literally a video posted a few pages back of a starving family.Will you stop whining about being slightly worse off with your multiple homes. There are people actually suffering out there, it's insensitive. You're not generous and you're not considerate if your main consideration in our countries biggest decision is how many homes you can own without paying some extra tax.
Not whining at all. I have nothing to whine about. Just stating my disagreement with some of the generalisations that go on in here. They’re wrong.Will you stop whining about being slightly worse off with your multiple homes. There are people actually suffering out there, it's insensitive. You're not generous and you're not considerate if your main consideration in our countries biggest decision is how many homes you can own without paying some extra tax.
Exactly.Not whining at all. I have nothing to whine about. Just stating my disagreement with some of the generalisations that go on in here. They’re wrong.
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Damn right you've nothing to whine about. You're one of the people keeping others down. You should be apologising.Not whining at all. I have nothing to whine about. Just stating my disagreement with some of the generalisations that go on in here. They’re wrong.
And you somehow think that wasn’t upsetting to me? I have said many times, I don’t mind tax rises but I’m fundamentally against Labours IHT plans.There's literally a video posted a few pages back of a starving family
He's also retweeted thisThe media will conveniently ignore his pleas and only propagate this nonsense. It’s almost as if the sick feckers are relieved these events happened when they did so they have a new stick to beat Corbyn with.
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Ok, I’d find it very interesting if you could find me one single person (other than maybe a couple women I two timed in my early 20’s) that I’ve ever met, worked for or see in my daily life that would say I had anything to apologise for or had kept anyone down. I don’t feel like I need to go to confession just yet.Damn right you've nothing to whine about. You're one of the people keeping others down. You should be apologising.
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I miss the Ed era. My favourite debate of modern politics was the idea that international relations comes down to two men (always men) facing off in a room, with the strongest exiting ‘victorious’, whatever that meant.
The funny thing is when discussing Brexit it's a widely held belief that due to a more difficult and less profitable trading environment of course businesses and talented people will leave the UK causing economic issues. However when discussing the Labour Party and the fact that their policies would patently cause a less profitable and more difficult trading environment; which would cause businesses and talented people to leave the UK... That wouldn't happen.I keep telling myself to stay out of this thread as nothing good ever comes from me posting here
Shouldn't be but it is unfortunately. 'Looking after your own interests' is the raison detre of the Conservative party. This pathological liar of a PM went on national TV at the weekend and said that child poverty had gone down under the Tory government. You can spin it any way you like but a vote for them will inevitably condemn (more) people to death so just be prepared to own it.It shouldn’t be an either or choice. Looking after your own interests and family shouldn’t and needn’t be mutually exclusive from looking after the rest of society.
I’ve seen complaints that Labour are devoting far too many of their resources to winning the unlikely seats of Tory big names (I.e. IDS in Chingford, Boris, Raab), rather than more logical swing seats. From an outsider’s view it does appear to be the case.Tweet
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