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The Oracle
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2016
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So things are not great then
I suppose its ironic but if Labour had helped May's WA pass we might not be here.
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I think its mainly just fatigue with it, they just want a resolution. Not more votes on it.Britain wants Brexit at any cost. It’s that simple.
Is it too late for David to make a comeback? I liked him i think he would have done a good job.Or if Ed Miliband had backed his brother instead of stabbing him in the back
Yep. "Vote for us so we can provide more Brexit negotiations and votes" was never likely to be a popular pitch.I think its mainly just fatigue with it, they just want a resolution. Not more votes on it.
The ERG has just grown in size. I’ve not seen a confirmed figure yet but Amber Rudd suggested last night that it’s as many as 80 MPs now which is over 22% of the Tory vote in Parliament.The bigger majority is for the best. He won't be beholden to the ERG on Brexit and it does strengthen his negotiation position with the EU. The noises from the EU are quite positive for the UK, they'll want to avoid a 'Singapore on Thames' scenario. He'll be able to pass an extension to negotiate the FTA with the EU quite easily too.
Anything they like and it won't be good.So what happens next? What do we think the tories are actually gonna do?
Sterling has gone up a lot. That's about it, really as far as good news goes.So things are not great then
Softer Brexit policies will be backed by other parties though with the threat of the ERG lurking in the background I would have thought. Unless Labour decide on further egregious mismanagement of the issue.The ERG has just grown in size. I’ve not seen a confirmed figure yet but Amber Rudd suggested last night that it’s as many as 80 MPs now which is over 22% of the Tory vote in Parliament.
Corbynism is dead in the water anyway. In England and Scotland.If Scotland leaves, surely that is the end of labour as we know it.
Aye, for the most part proper anti-Brexit Tory moderates have all been kicked out the party now. Anyone who's still there at this point is all good with a hard Brexit, and is willing to let No Deal happen if it must.The ERG has just grown in size. I’ve not seen a confirmed figure yet but Amber Rudd suggested last night that it’s as many as 80 MPs now which is over 22% of the Tory vote in Parliament.
For all the talk of how strong Labour were in Scotland their most impressive victories typically never relied on us to win. And they're pretty much dead up here anyway. Barely of any significance at all now.If Scotland leaves, surely that is the end of labour as we know it.
I think he’s much more likely to appease those in his own party before looking for cross party support for a Softer Brexit. The ERG is big enough to drop their support for him and leave him with no majority once again.Softer Brexit policies will be backed by other parties though with the threat of the ERG lurking in the background I would have thought. Unless Labour decide on further egregious mismanagement of the issue.
It feels like I read similar posts after the last election. Labour seem to have just gone backwards since then in many people's eyes judging by the result, so don't hold your breath for anything mentioned in your post.He’s built a party no one likes full of politicians no one likes, pushing ideas and economic policies no one likes backed by unions and movements no one likes and it appears no one likes him either. Impressive and focused work.
It will be very interesting to see what Labour do now. Hopefully ridiculous and unsuitable creatures like McDonnell and Abbott are swept away and consigned to history along with Corbyn and a modern and realistic Labour Party emerge that really represents the working classes and are not just a Union / Momentum mouthpiece. I really hope they get it right, the country will need a strong and capable opposition now more than ever.
Appease the 25% or the 75%?I think he’s much more likely to appease those in his own party before looking for cross party support for a Softer Brexit. The ERG is big enough to drop their support for him and leave him with no majority once again.
I don’t think they don’t care about that. Think they care about getting their way no matter what the cost.Yep. "Vote for us so we can provide more Brexit negotiations and votes" was never likely to be a popular pitch.
The 75% are not going to stand up to this populist leader. Just like how it was only 20 or so that stood up to him last time and they are all gone now and it’s a party even more aligned with the ERG.Appease the 25% or the 75%?
Time will tell but I still think the larger majority is better than a slimmer one. The great shame is that under Corbyn the best we were hoping for was a minority government and more political chaos. Our expectations were in the gutter.The 75% are not going to stand up to this populist leader. Just like how it was only 20 or so that stood up to him last time and they are all gone now and it’s a party even more aligned with the ERG.
Whatever Boris decides Brexit to be will be whipped and voted along party lines with room for around 40 to abstain or vote against and make absolutely no difference whatsoever.
Yeah, everyone should raise a glass and wish him the best. He’s been a great servant to his constituency over the years. While I’m not directly in that constituency, I’m nearby and he is a real folk legend round here.I'm sad to see the Beast of Bolsover has gone in such an ignominious way, after 49 years as an MP. He was really far too old to be standing again, but he represented the last of a particular era.
The challenge is really how to do it from the outside, because they will only ever try to influence people in favour of a party that they see as good for them, and no party has figured out how to do that yet. It does require people to not be so easily manipulated though, which is going to be almost impossible to sort out.How are we going to do that without Labour in power, or at least a leadership ready to take them on? Or at least have some kind of idea about how to try!
Honest question and apologies if you've outlined this above, in your view what should Labour have done about Brexit?Softer Brexit policies will be backed by other parties though with the threat of the ERG lurking in the background I would have thought. Unless Labour decide on further egregious mismanagement of the issue.
You’re echoing what I said before last night. There is no excuses now, the Tories have to own this. They should get Brexit through with no trouble and it will be whatever Brexit they choose.Time will tell but I still think the larger majority is better than a slimmer one. The great shame is that under Corbyn the best we were hoping for was a minority government and more political chaos. Our expectations were in the gutter.
The WA lays the ground for a "softer Brexit", the moment we sign it that's what we're getting:I think he’s much more likely to appease those in his own party before looking for cross party support for a Softer Brexit. The ERG is big enough to drop their support for him and leave him with no majority once again.
Why? They won what, one seat in Scotland? SNP basically bulldozed everyone up there.If Scotland leaves, surely that is the end of labour as we know it.
They might not have lost in so many of their heartlands if they'd actually spent time formulating an argument for a softer Brexit for Remain and convincing voters why that was beneficial for them.Honest question and apologies if you've outlined this above, in your view what should Labour have done about Brexit?
If the leadership had settled on a more 'Leave' position a decent chunk of their MPs would have defected when Chuka et al did. Had they settled on a more 'Remain' position they'd have lost the bulk of the heartlands seats which they barely clung on to last night. Looking at where the vote share went, it's clear that Brexit was the biggest issue of the election and unfortunately Brexit is the one issue that was guaranteed to split Labour's electoral coalition.
They had to settle on a direction of travel one way or another. I'd have said a leave position calling the bluff of the centrists rather than a remain position. Not backing May's deal will go down in history as a major strategic failing. Falling into Cummings's hand and being portrayed as the enemies of the people will go down in history as a major strategic error. Hiding from Brexit in the 2019 GE when it was obviously to all an sundry that it was the core issue at play will go down in history as a major strategic error. I think you're kidding yourself if you're implying that it was only Brexit. Corbyn's brand of politics will not win in this country. His followers need to wake up to that fact.Honest question and apologies if you've outlined this above, in your view what should Labour have done about Brexit?
If the leadership had settled on a more 'Leave' position a decent chunk of their MPs would have defected when Chuka et al did. Had they settled on a more 'Remain' position they'd have lost the bulk of the heartlands seats which they barely clung on to last night. Looking at where the vote share went, it's clear that Brexit was the biggest issue of the election and unfortunately Brexit is the one issue that was guaranteed to split Labour's electoral coalition.
I expressed those thoughts last night too but got told I was wrong. It will be much much harder for them not to own things now, with 10+ years in government and a large majority.You’re echoing what I said before last night. There is no excuses now, the Tories have to own this. They should get Brexit through with no trouble and it will be whatever Brexit they choose.
Then they’re going to have to start running the country again and will be scrutinised beyond Brexit. Unlike in the rust belt in America where Trump has unwavering partisan support, a lot of Johnson’s new voters have no support for the Tories beyond Brexit so as soon as Brexit is no longer an issue he’s going to have to come up with a lot of other answers if he wants to retain their support.
Scotland gone, boundaries re-drawn with number of seats reduced (even before factoring Scotland leaving), voter ID requirement introduced and other changes they've mentioned on page 48 of their manifesto. I can't see there being another Labour government in my lifetime.Funnily enough I think this is better for Labour in the long term than a hung parliament Corbyn led fiasco.
every cloud...
They didn't help either with their pathetic campaign and ricockulous graphs.