Read the post again.You don’t understand why the army didn’t like Corbyn? Wow.
Read the post again.You don’t understand why the army didn’t like Corbyn? Wow.
Just like Redcafe mostly is.Twitter prices the point that social media is an echo chamber.
It's because we can all spell.Just like Redcafe mostly is.
That's like minded people for you I guess
BolshitIt's because we can all spell.
I know, I was just being faseshus.Bolshit
Ok yankie trumpie. Say it hows you c it.I know, I was just being faseshus.
There was a suggestion that corbyn wouldn't whip against it. You should have seen the reactions here.Labour should have simply let May's deal pass in the parliament. Tories would have gotten all the back lash then from almost everyone - brexiters for not delivering proper mythical brexit and remainers for even a soft brexit. Worst case LD would have gained at expense of Tories rather than Labour but Tories surely would have tanked instead of surging.
Kerching.It's because we can all spell.
To be fair Corbyn shat the bed on Brexit during the referendum itself by not backing Remain as strongly as he should have. I even understand his position since one of my left wing friends in UK voted for leave due to precisely the same reasons I suspect Corbyn was lukewarm on EU membership. But as a leader of a major political party Corbyn should have been much more pragmatic. But yeah the absolute cynical and cunning political play after brexit would have been to let Tories take the blame by facilitating the deal to go through. I guess one can argue that same should still happen by the next election since now all the blame of any adverse effect of Brexit would fall on Johnson/Tories.There was a suggestion that corbyn wouldn't whip against it. You should have seen the reactions here.
To be fair Corbyn shat the bed on Brexit during the referendum itself by not backing Remain as strongly as he should have. I even understand his position since one of my left wing friends in UK voted for leave due to precisely the same reasons I suspect Corbyn was lukewarm on EU membership. But as a leader of a major political party Corbyn should have been much more pragmatic. But yeah the absolute cynical and cunning political play after brexit would have been to let Tories take the blame by facilitating the deal to go through. I guess one can argue that same should still happen by the next election since now all the blame of any adverse effect of Brexit would fall on Johnson/Tories.
All time classicYeah but the Iraqi law
That was an egregious strategic error by Corbyn. They were so convinced at the time that they’d win a general election even though Corbyn's ratings were on the floor. It would have totally stitched up the Tory party as well and caused internal war between the ERG and the moderates.There was a suggestion that corbyn wouldn't whip against it. You should have seen the reactions here.
It's so bad to wish for death but its great to vote to increase death.Bloody hell how can anyone be full of such bile that they wish such ill on those who disagree with their point of view. May I repectfully suggest that you do indeed move to the USA as I am sure that those of us that remain would be much better off. We don’t need those either right or left who hold such vicious ideas.
When wasn't it... you can't put much policy into effect if you can't win powerThat's politics these days, power over principles.
Don't hold your breath, the young tend to shy away from the left naturally once they become older, wiser, and learn how the world actually works.
Not sure if anyone posted this yet, but it’s not surprising that the majority of conservative voters were in the older age brackets.
Labour need to find a way to get more votes, but they need to be careful not to lose the young majority they have.
People keep saying this but that theory is built entirely around a generation of people who were given every opportunity in life to acquire that wealth with affordable housing and free education.Don't hold your breath, the young tend to shy away from the left naturally once they become older, wiser, and learn how the world actually works.
This is true actually.People keep saying this but that theory is built entirely around a generation of people who were given every opportunity in life to acquire that wealth with affordable housing and free education.
Stands to reason that they'd shift to the right to keep it.
There's also the condescending, cynical, callous and arrogant assumption that the politics of the left are naive, unwise and immature.People keep saying this but that theory is built entirely around a generation of people who were given every opportunity in life to acquire that wealth with affordable housing and free education.
Stands to reason that they'd shift to the right to keep it.
I think conservative attempts to defund the BBC are quite short sighted. It is an excellent soft power tool globally for this country.Tories going all in on the BBC for anti-Tory bias
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack
Well I’d reply but the posts above have explained why this post is misinformed.Don't hold your breath, the young tend to shy away from the left naturally once they become older, wiser, and learn how the world actually works.
It's an actual fecking disgrace. They have also threatened Channel 4. They are actively and openly seeking to control the press that they currently do not absolutely control. It is totalitarian. It is terrifying.Tories going all in on the BBC for anti-Tory bias
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/15/boris-johnson-threatens-bbc-with-two-pronged-attack
They are just putting pressure on them to be more favourable to the Tories. I agree that they'd be crazy to destroy it because as you say, it is a crown jewel brand for us.I think conservative attempts to defund the BBC are quite short sighted. It is an excellent soft power tool globally for this country.
Very well said.Their kids are not immigrants. They are UK citizens and if there actually is proof that they become a net drain on resources the only thing that is evidence of is that our society is broken and these people are not being given the opportunities they should be. If we are spending the same per second generation immigrant head as we are native heads then they should have every chance to become valued contributing members of society. If they are not then we need to fix our broken infrastructure not our immigration system.
This is true actually.
People talk about this as if it is a known fact of life in democracies.
Firstly, most countries haven't had truly functioning democracies for long enough to say people tend to do anything. In the UK itself, we only achieved universal suffrage a century ago. In that time, we've pretty much had steady growths where each generation is better off than the last one, especially so for the boomers. This may be the first time in a long time that this is not the case.
It will be interesting to see if our kids' generation also moves to the right when they're working gig economy jobs and not managing to get on the property ladder until their 30s/40s.
It worries me too. I mean it looks like they are going to spend on the NHS but I really feel they're trying to make the UK a one party state. They have to be aware of the age demographics on voting and how they are alienating 'generation rent' from a natural drift to the Tories as they get older. It feels like they are now looking at more subversive measures to ensure they hold on to power. The essence of the Tory party is a feeling that they have a divine right to rule this country. The other thing that worries me is how much easier totalitarianism will be with the aid of modern technology.It's an actual fecking disgrace. They have also threatened Channel 4. They are actively and openly seeking to control the press that they currently do not absolutely control. It is totalitarian. It is terrifying.
I totally agree. The fair play ideal is a road to complete domination by the Tories. I think the left completely underestimated Boris and his team too, to quick to dismiss them as idiots because of Boris's persona.@Classical Mechanic @crappycraperson
I'm absolutely for cynical leadership. I am in favor of fake news. I sincerely believe that the only thing stopping a bad man with many lies is a good man with more lies. I admire Mitch McConnell, and in India, a credibly-accused murderer who is now the union home minister. They are skilled in creating propaganda networks, bullying and cajoling and threatening allies and opponents into winning important votes, manipulating the judiciary, managing the press either through direct ownership (one America network, republic tv) or indirect control (Fox, times now*).
It is a fact, with some academic papers backing this, that the press was amazingly biased against corbyn, it is always a fact that the left will not have the institutional access that the right does. But these are not excuses. These are reasons to play the game in an equally cynical and ruthless way as your opponent. That is my main criticism of Corbyn. Are memes with you and the IRA, often with fake pics, circulating on FB? Why the feck aren't things about Johnson's stated contempt for the working class in constant circulation from the day he became leader? Why doesn't JRM have the prominence of Dianne Abbott?
I am not sure a decisive stance on the referendum would have worked better than this. The party was hopelessly divided, and that was obvious since 2015. What was needed was better and simpler messaging. Parliament sucks, and could not deliver on the people choice to leave. We are "taking back control" from the idiots in Westminster back to the people and protecting you from a "Westminster Brexit"/ "Jacob Rees Mogg Brexit".
*My mother writes for 2 Indian papers not known to be in favor of the govt, and in both she wasn't allowed to criticize the PM directly for creating religious discord, some months back she wasn't allowed to name the home minister either, and last week a reference to their party was removed.
That’s not the reason. The reason is, in the past, the older you got, the more you stood to lose, whether that’s assets, property or family (all conservative priorities). Whether that’s still the case, we will see.Don't hold your breath, the young tend to shy away from the left naturally once they become older, wiser, and learn how the world actually works.
People of my age, early 40's/late 30's, basically the tail end of Gen-X and start of Millenials are are still holding left I would guess.This is true actually.
People talk about this as if it is a known fact of life in democracies.
Firstly, most countries haven't had truly functioning democracies for long enough to say people tend to do anything. In the UK itself, we only achieved universal suffrage a century ago. In that time, we've pretty much had steady growths where each generation is better off than the last one, especially so for the boomers. This may be the first time in a long time that this is not the case.
It will be interesting to see if our kids' generation also moves to the right when they're working gig economy jobs and not managing to get on the property ladder until their 30s/40s.
I hope so but currently it seems they can do whatever they want no matter how bad and it just doesn't matter. Johnson alone has enough on him he'd have been destroyed in the 90s and it has no impact on him whatsoever.From memory a big reason labour won in 97 was because of outrage over years of Tory sleaze. Basically the next labour govt will likely get in because the Tories have become corrupt to the point of exasperating the electorate.
Yeah, demographics and voting is complicated. Thatcher dominated 18-25 year olds in 1979.People of my age, early 40's/late 30's, basically the tail end of Gen-X and start of Millenials are are still holding left I would guess.
It was a factor in “time for a change” but so was an electable, clearly able opposition.From memory a big reason labour won in 97 was because of outrage over years of Tory sleaze. Basically the next labour govt will likely get in because the Tories have become corrupt to the point of exasperating the electorate.
Come off it trying to make Corbyn into some kind of martyr for political purity. Cynicism and pragmatism have been the driving force since the days of Robert Walpole. Corbyn was basically incapable of switching from being a rebel backbencher, where you can indulge “no compromise” principles on the basis you are not trying to influence and ultimately implement policy, to being leader of the main opposition. In short, he’s a cretin whose intellectual development stopped about 50 years ago. And the country is paying a very heavy price for having such a woefully inadequate man in charge of Labour at such a perilous time.Corbyn just isn't cynical and calculating enough to be PM it seems. That's politics these days, power over principles.
Well you are probably going to be one of the 18% then. But not everyone will think like you. And also maybe you feel you'd rather give most of your wealth to the government for redistribution after your death rather than your children, but again not everyone will be like you.There's also the condescending, cynical, callous and arrogant assumption that the politics of the left are naive, unwise and immature.
I'm 43. My politics have not shifted right. My income is high but I have not stopped believing in redistribution of wealth or equality. I do not believe that self interest ends at taxation and that I personally benefit from a fairer society. I admire ideals and do not find them stupid. I am not unwise or a callow idiot for feeling so and I do not appreciate the continued explicit and implicit inferences that I am.
But I am not surprised. This narrative and its cousins of related ilk have always existed and now they dominate.
It is the youth I look to for hope and that they may change the future for the better as some controlling generations have in the past and that the current controlling generations have not.
"Most" of their wealth? I assume you're referring to inheritance tax, in which case "most" is not correct.Well you are probably going to be one of the 18% then. But not everyone will think like you. And also maybe you feel you'd rather give most of your wealth to the government for redistribution after your death rather than your children, but again not everyone will be like you.
For a lot of people, giving their wealth (whatever's left of it) to their kids > giving it back to the government.
I hope so but currently it seems they can do whatever they want no matter how bad and it just doesn't matter. Johnson alone has enough on him he'd have been destroyed in the 90s and it has no impact on him whatsoever.
Anything that goes wrong with the EU negotiations will be blamed on Europe. Gut wrenching levels of child poverty, rough sleepers, savage benefit cuts and the collapse of social care has not hurt them. Openly lying and threatening the media has done nothing to stop them. Causal racism appears to have gone down quite well in the UK.
I hope this changes but what would have been electoral poison in the past now seems to be positively advantageous electorally.