But if you tailor the curriculum to the lowest ability then everybody suffers. You have to figure out a way to help the thickos and challenge the gifted.
UK Immigration: No visas for low-skilled workers
- Thread starter Ian Reus
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
It's exactly that and it is hugely powerful.
I understand why they do it but I don't think they understand just how serious an impact it has on a child's psychology. All the current lip-service paid to mental health in schools and mental health awareness weeks is just that, lip-service. If we actually analysed why those in lower income roles and those with no jobs ended up where they did and what drove them to act like they did/do then perhaps we'd have less of a need for low-skilled, low wage foreigners because English/British people would just be working and earning a living. Clearly whatever we're doing right now is just ruining people needlessly.
Not all lower set kids want to ruin their lives (in fact, I bet if you asked them all honestly, none of them do) but the culture it breeds by being told you're worth feck all is so immensely damaging.
I honestly think that when kids pick their options (or whatever they're called now) after Y9 SATS there should be an offer of doing practical trades instead of learning subjects that they likely don't care about. Learn life skills rather than book smarts.
But even that's probably too late cause the damage is done. Then we get them voting against their interests and the damage to the country is done.
Unfortunately we're heading towards bigger classes, not one to ones.
After Brexit, school classes will look like a pilgrimage to mecca. In size.
Well it is in the interests of the elite to have malleable thickos voting. Labour fought so hard for education but the tories know that it doesn't help them.
Account for the lowest ability and then give the challenges to the higher ones whilst emphasising that what they're doing at any level is good enough as long as they work for it.
The gifted should be challenged but not put on a pedestal because it disenfranchises everyone else and breeds jealousy and bullying.
In that case, do you think the EU policy is xenophobic?
I'm a huge fan of the EU but I would argue that their immigration system is more xenophobic.
And I can see what you mean about appealing to certain groups of voters but as far as I've read, this actually removes pointless caps and goes for numbers based on need.
There's pretty much no country with a completely open immigration system. Until we move to a world government system of governance, I can't see that changing any time soon.
It's an appreciation that every individual sees things differently so any attempt at seeing them for the individual they are is worth something.
Lots of my counselling clients have no clue what they want or who they are when they first come in and part of that is because they're just grouped from a young age and told to like it or lump it rather than have the attention paid to them and their needs.
I'm pretty sure Mark Twain or one of those other internet proof of purchase memes said.
Plato
- Knowledge that is acquired under compulsion obtains no hold on the mind.
- Reward and punishment is the lowest form of education.
- I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
- Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run.
- Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned.
- In the first place God made idiots. This was for practice. Then he made school boards.
I think they’re going to use this points system as a method of making immigration politically acceptable again.
Immigration was never an actual concern of the Brexit puppeteers. They just wanted more control politically. They knew full well we need immigration for a functional economy but also recognised it was an emotive subject to help force public opinion on Brexit.
So this points system will come in and the farmers, the fishermen, the builders and the factory owners and the NHS will start complaining about how short they are of “low skilled labour”. The government will do a review and all those jobs will be put on the list and people will understand why this time.
Immigration was never an actual concern of the Brexit puppeteers. They just wanted more control politically. They knew full well we need immigration for a functional economy but also recognised it was an emotive subject to help force public opinion on Brexit.
So this points system will come in and the farmers, the fishermen, the builders and the factory owners and the NHS will start complaining about how short they are of “low skilled labour”. The government will do a review and all those jobs will be put on the list and people will understand why this time.
This interview will confuse the Brexiters who voted to keep out all immigrants, not just ones from Europe. They'll think their dream has come true.
They'll stay inside that dream unless their political wing break the fishbowl and let them swim out. You should be safe, penna, they'll likely all head to Spain once they regain their freedom which they'll celebrate like ww2.
Good post.
Well the immigration system depends on the countries but if we're talking about freedom of movement between EU nations then yes it does favour Europeans although it probably does more to break down xenophobic barriers than what the UK is doing.
Yeah that’s what’s terrifying, my son-in-law is 14 and he’s totally unmotivated by anything other than dicking around. I can remember that age and school was a bit of a popularity contest, but there genuinely seems to be no desire to do anything beyond that. If it makes it easier on you I’ve tried several times to give him the ‘life chats’ and it doesn’t get through at all despite us having a pretty good bond. So god help you as a TA. It’s not a job I could do.
There's always the army to learn a good trade. I considered being an avionics technician in the RAF Regiment.
You can’t complain, your daughter really shouldn’t have married a child.
My oldest squirt only wanted to join the army so he could shoot terrorists. I recommended he watch Full Metal Jacket. Last I heard from that.
My late sister bought him a blue bb gun for xmas for some stupid reason. He went and ordered black spray paint with an Amazon voucher a day later.
Luckily my dad stopped him before he did that as it would become a replica and so is illegal.
Thank feck I was talked out of going for the Marines. I'd be a security guard in Croydon now if I'd gone that way.
“What’s the point of calling it fast food if there’s no one there to talk my bloody order”
I live in a very rural place herefordshire. It relies on Eastern European labour. Not because they can't get local people but because they can pay for contracts with Eastern European recruitment firms that pay less than minimum wage and works out cheaper. Young people in the area don't even get the possibility to apply for the work.
I took a risk with one kid and told them about my depression and what it felt like everyday to be that miserable and that hopeless about the future that every single minute of every day was painful and the look on their face was sheer terror.
They've not been in trouble once since.
I wouldn't advise going that far with everyone mind but I knew it'd work with this one somehow, they weren't a bad kid but were being treated as the 'one size fits all bad kid' and I was the only one being genuine with them. Just being properly honest seems to work with a lot of them.
It's always risky though. I'm certainly sure I couldn't be a parent or parent-in-law right now either mate, hard enough dealing with them occasionally let alone constantly.
This whole thing has kinda sidetracked the thread so I'll leave it at that but it serves to show where a lot of the population are and why things like immigration become such a misguided issue. It's so often an easy excuse so that people don't look at their own lives and face reality.
There are no thikos, just people waiting for something interesting to switch on their light. As a zero qualification dude, for me it was IT.
We shouldn't be looking at this as a plan to cut off the supply of immigrant workers, skilled or unskilled, but as an attempt to bring some control to the process. I'm quite sure that the legislation, when it is introduced, will allow the government to be flexible about how the rules are applied. It isn't in anyone's interests to have food rotting in the fields, or for hundreds of care homes to be closing.
In a way, this might actually force us to the point where we start to have a more informed debate about the impacts of immigration, and the best ways to manage it. As you say, the economic impact is usually a positive one, and an influx of generally younger immigrants does improve the national demographic.
You are right. We classify intelligence the wrong way too.
He's talking about the shrapnel, after we cut the tin.
I don’t see anything wrong with a merit based visa system that prioritises skills. But I think there should be a broader definition of skill. There is skilled labour that needs to be done at every strata of the economic pyramid, which has to be coupled with a willingness to perform the work. I don’t think confining the definition of skilled labour to highly skilled sectors that require extensive training or advanced degrees is necessarily the right approach. It going to result in critical labour shortages in many industries that the native population is unwilling to fill.
Everything offends at some point. We should be looking to raise ourselves up but its really the fault of others who have tried to make people poorer because of capitalism by exploiting circumstances. To be a great nation, you have to have some standards. That's the foundation. People qualified in health care as an example. We look where we short and we bring in people with Good morals/ethics and in time people can respond in kind. What we have now are fractions/groups and a divided country which in tern is used to try to break nation states. In actuality, there are many hurdles but people would be wiser to learn how money is made and such. Much is not just random but rather built over time and finance ultimately drives people.
Do you think this stops at children? Is there an age when being told you are a "deplorable" becomes harmless?
Just a thought given the last four years.
Absolutely not no, it's damaging until the day you day I bet. I'd imagine however that when being told you are a deplorable as an adult some part of you reverts back to that childlike state and you react accordingly. Not everyone will have been told they're worth feck all as a kid but I'd wager the vast majority of 'deplorables' have at some point growing up.
Some part of British people not wanting to do the jobs that low-skilled immigrants will do for a pittance is tied to not wanting to prove those people right and accept that you are indeed worth feck all as well. It's a headfeck at all ages and a needless one but it's what humans do.
We have that System in Germany from the 5th grade. It‘s really inhumane. Children in the first Grade are Talking about needing good grades in order to avoid the Hauptschule which is the lowest ranked school after the 4th grade.
This segregation of pupils is still a result of the old feudal system. No party is so crazy to address the issue because Germans are still loving it.
My first thought at reviewing the points system was ‘is that it?’, it seems way easier to get enough points than I was expecting.
The low-skilled worker thing seems problematic on the face of it, but can’t the UK government just adjust the list according to need should skill gaps materialize? In theory, of course.
On the surface it seems fairly logical. My biggest concern would be how will they manage to administer all of it? Seems like a lot of work, especially when it was deemed too much hassle to bother checking if EU immigrants met the basic requirements we were we’re allowed to impose on them based on EU law.
The low-skilled worker thing seems problematic on the face of it, but can’t the UK government just adjust the list according to need should skill gaps materialize? In theory, of course.
On the surface it seems fairly logical. My biggest concern would be how will they manage to administer all of it? Seems like a lot of work, especially when it was deemed too much hassle to bother checking if EU immigrants met the basic requirements we were we’re allowed to impose on them based on EU law.
Nobody think it's unethical to take the brightest and best from the devolping countries who have already been robbed of their resources and in some cases people?
As a Nigerian, I don't think so. The leaders in our country show no desire to create an enabling environment.
I do disagree on the principle of discriminating based on the educational level when it comes to visa applications though. I am well educated because I come from a middle class Nigerian family who could afford sending me here to school. If every country adopted this policy, a poor Nigerian would never have the opportunity to find a better life.
It's an inflationary policy. I work in construction and I'm convinced wages will start to rise when the tap of cheap labour is switched off. I've looked at the points already and if I want to employ eastern European labour I have to provide them with a job offer before they arrive and they must prove they can speak English. This basically is the end of this labour source. I'm not going to sponsor anybody and most of the guys coming over can't speak English.
From here on I'm going to have to tempt labour from other companies by offering them more money.
The Government haven't planned for a substantial increase in training and have cut off a major source of recruitment. The cost of building will go up and houses will costs more. We are meant to be building more houses but we now have less people to do this. Yes there is investment going into off site prefabrication but this is small beans within a huge market and it won't resolve the fundamental problem of massive skills shortage.
From here on I'm going to have to tempt labour from other companies by offering them more money.
The Government haven't planned for a substantial increase in training and have cut off a major source of recruitment. The cost of building will go up and houses will costs more. We are meant to be building more houses but we now have less people to do this. Yes there is investment going into off site prefabrication but this is small beans within a huge market and it won't resolve the fundamental problem of massive skills shortage.
It's an odd conundrum that the party of big business and naked capitalism is hell-bent on reducing the supply of cheap labour for their backers. I'm curious to see how it plays out. Hopefully an increase in training and wages for British youth but I won't hold my breath.