UK Policing

11101

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SalfordRed18 said:
But this has only happened because of a police officer on patrol? You do get that right?
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But that's not the gist of the article or the posts is it? People are complaining about the response to it not the initial report.

That he had firearms pointed at him despite it being a standard response in any kind of potential firearms situation, and that it wouldn't have happened if he was a white 13 year old boy, despite my white, teenage next door neighbour having exactly the same thing happen to him years ago.

The last few pages of this thread has just become another anti establishment echo chamber, I see the handful of police who post on this forum dont bother with it anymore.
 

K Stand Knut

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11101 said:
But that's not the gist of the article or the posts is it? People are complaining about the response to it not the initial report.

That he had firearms pointed at him despite it being a standard response in any kind of potential firearms situation, and that it wouldn't have happened if he was a white 13 year old boy, despite my white, teenage next door neighbour having exactly the same thing happen to him years ago.

The last few pages of this thread has just become another anti establishment echo chamber, I see the handful of police who post on this forum dont bother with it anymore.
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I don’t particularly care what anyone says, this is not a standard response to a potential firearm situation. It’s ridiculous, on the face of it.

However………..

I suspect that the media are not portraying all of the relevant information about the incident in a purposeful manner to get people to erupt and complain about the ‘establishment’, which appears to have happened.

Mix that in with the fact that this is the Met who have a habit of being heavy-handed and arguably racist and voila, hot topic created.

This is why I avoid the news as best as I can!
 

Red in STL

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11101 said:
Police get reports of a gun. Police respond with their own guns. Police let the kid go once they've established its not a real gun (as we've already seen real guns can look like toy guns). Take issue with the initial report but the response from there is totally normal.
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You are defending the indefensible, if it was the US you might have a point but in the UK - no chance

Do you really want a police force that lacks common sense, especially the ones that are supposed to be trained firearms officers?
 

Sara125

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11101 said:

The last few pages of this thread has just become another anti establishment echo chamber, I see the handful of police who post on this forum dont bother with it anymore.
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Do you think that people are not justified in their disdain for the police or?
 

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SalfordRed18

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Sara125 said:
Literally came to post a similar article titled ‘Met Police officers lied about smelling cannabis in stop and search’ on the Kilburn Times.

Anyway, glad to see them sacked hope it sets a precedent.
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Wonder how many others they've done that too and ruin people's lives.
 

Cascarino

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SalfordRed18 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67214409

A small win. I imagine the one that flat out lied about smelling weed might be one of the ones that got the boot, but who knows.
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It causes so many problems, especially in the BAME community. Recently in Liverpool some kids (white kids on this occasion) I know were stopped and searched, and the officer who conducted the search didn't convey the very basics that they're meant to. They didn't state either what they expected to find, or what the reason for the search was. I'm sure the officer knew he was meant to, but because these were kids didn't bother, and was clearly trying to intimidate them. The parents didn't want to take it further (mainly as they have a chequered history and didn't want to bring attention to themselves) and it's a shame because it was just blatant bullying.

One of the other problems is when police forces incentivise these practices (traffic stops too), so they can brag about how the numbers on positive outcomes, and contraband found are up this year. I was speaking to an officer at the start of the month, and she told me about those who continuously try and catch people out (and bend the rules to do so) have been heavily praised by the higher ups (and it will look good for promotion), and people like her with good people skills and who wants to serve the community not target it, fall behind.
 

Jippy

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SalfordRed18 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67214409

A small win. I imagine the one that flat out lied about smelling weed might be one of the ones that got the boot, but who knows.
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If you think that story was bad, the aftermath is a whole new level of grim weirdness. Who the hell would donate to a crowdfunding campaign for corrupt, racist cops. Apparently 4,400 people have:houllier:

Bianca Williams and Ricardo Dos Santos: £80k raised for sacked police
A crowdfunding campaign for two Metropolitan Police officers sacked for lying about a “distressing” stop and search has been described as “laughable if it wasn’t so frightening”.
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...santos-80k-raised-for-sacked-police-q72j0ckt9
 

TheReligion

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Cascarino said:
It causes so many problems, especially in the BAME community. Recently in Liverpool some kids (white kids on this occasion) I know were stopped and searched, and the officer who conducted the search didn't convey the very basics that they're meant to. They didn't state either what they expected to find, or what the reason for the search was. I'm sure the officer knew he was meant to, but because these were kids didn't bother, and was clearly trying to intimidate them. The parents didn't want to take it further (mainly as they have a chequered history and didn't want to bring attention to themselves) and it's a shame because it was just blatant bullying.

One of the other problems is when police forces incentivise these practices (traffic stops too), so they can brag about how the numbers on positive outcomes, and contraband found are up this year. I was speaking to an officer at the start of the month, and she told me about those who continuously try and catch people out (and bend the rules to do so) have been heavily praised by the higher ups (and it will look good for promotion), and people like her with good people skills and who wants to serve the community not target it, fall behind.
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I’m sure you have been told these things but I’m not seeing how they make any sense to be honest. Lots or arrests or positive outcomes will have no impact on promotion.
 

Ludens the Red

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Jippy said:
If you think that story was bad, the aftermath is a whole new level of grim weirdness. Who the hell would donate to a crowdfunding campaign for corrupt, racist cops. Apparently 4,400 people have:houllier:

Bianca Williams and Ricardo Dos Santos: £80k raised for sacked police

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...santos-80k-raised-for-sacked-police-q72j0ckt9
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Superden said:
Lots of the donors have outed themselves as corrupt racist cops.
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While the panel accepted the officers’ version of events in most matters, including that their decisions were not motivated by ethnicity, it found that PC Clapham and PC Franks lied about smelling drugs on stopping the vehicle.
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If you accept that the IOPC found that the officers lied about smelling cannabis then you also have to accept that the stop did not originate through racial profiling. You are widely incorrect in your assertions here about officers. In the same way the officers who contributed to that go fund me are also incorrect. The problem is people just haven’t been given all of the information. (It’s 222 pages long but it is there) If you’re anti police you’re going to see the headline and end result and come to the conclusion this was all down to racism. If you’re pro police, you’d be looking at the headline and thinking “how can they prove the officers lied”.

The reason for police supporting the officers is not because of corruption or racism. It’s deeper than that. You had that report a few months back that said senior leadership in the met was failing its officers. As soon as this result came out the Met should have gone into detail about why the result was what it was. Explained to officers. But they didn’t and so officers automatically have their backs up. The media are on your backs, a vocal portion of society are constantly labelling you racist, sexist, you’re used by MP’s for political gain and you have no faith in your leadership team. It’s obvious that in this situation you’re going to go on the defensive and think this is the wrong decision. I am pretty sure if every officer who contributed to that go fund me was shown the 222 page report they would likely withdraw their support for the fired officers.

The stop and smelling cannabis

The actual stop was initiated by the driver. BWV showed Santos driving on the wrong side of the road. The police van followed and in a 20mph zone the van was registered doing over 30mph to catch up to Santos. Meaning the probability is Santos was speeding. This combined will get you stopped by police 99/100. Ultimately that is more than likely why the IOPC didn’t see the element of race being a contributing factor to the stop. They even searched the entire history of the drivers stop and search records and he’d actually stopped more white individuals than black.

A few months back I made this comment about the now fired officer PC Clapham.

Ludens the Red said:
Male Officer in the first video is a bit of a disaster, unnecessarily going in at 100mph, not clearly giving grounds (even having to be prompted) I think he’s very nervous and he’s made the situation worse by losing rationality in complete contrast to the female officer in the other video.
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It was obvious he was relatively new in service and also had issues with his communicating and rationale. His mentor/senior officer (the one who reminded him what to say) is actually the officer who mentions 'smell of cannabis' (the other one officer fired). PC Clapham has blindly accepted this and then said it as well despite making no mention of it in his initial search grounds. The irony behind it being there was absolutely nothing to gain from adding that they smelt cannabis. The grounds for the search had already been established through section 1 and despite the IOPC's slightly ridiculous threshold for a search there was enough there and most people of reasonable mind would accept there was. Hence the IOPC not deeming the search illegal.

None of the other officers reported smelling cannabis or backed up the claims of those two. (So it can also be cleared up that there was no attempted mob like stitch up) That along with Santos being an athlete, telling officers repeatedly to drugs test him, kids being in the car, you can safely conclude that the officers fired were untruthful about smelling cannabis.

I don’t always agree with the IOPC but on this occasion they got it right. Whilst there’s no way you can 100% say anything either way in this case. The high probability is that the stop did not originate because Santos was black and also that the two fired officers did not actually smell cannabis.

My personal opinion is that the PC Clapham was let down badly by the senior officer. I think he was all over the place anyway and probably had tunnel vision. He’s had a senior officer saying things to him and he’s blindly followed that and then once he’s committed to what he’s said he’s then had to produce a statement reaffirming that. I don’t think all negative incidents involving police and black males should be automatically classed as racism either. A lot of the time it’s just bad policing. And you don’t solve or learn anything from bad policing if you reflect on the incidents and call them racism all of the time. What should be looked at here is the training of new officers and whether those mentoring them are suitable and are sufficiently vetted. Are new recruits being pressured into getting results? You need the right kind of officers training the new intakes. Not encouraging bad habits, influencing them to lie etc.
 

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horsechoker said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-sent-racist-messages-allowed-to-keep-her-job

Met police detective who sent racist messages allowed to keep her job

Exclusive: DS Victoria Teagle only given a final written warning despite disciplinary panel finding her guilty of gross misconduct


Really makes you think
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Teagle was found guilty of gross misconduct by a disciplinary panel, and has received a final written warning, which will last three years, the Met has confirmed.



So a final warning, that expires after 3 years?

<insert bad apple joke>
 

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TheReligion

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67613292

“British sprinter Bianca Williams has been banned from driving despite telling a court it would jeopardise her chances of going to the 2024 Olympics.

Williams, 29, failed to tell police who was driving a Tesla Model 3 when an alleged offence took place.

The athlete claimed a ban would make it difficult for her to get to training.
But magistrates at Lavender Hill rejected her claim that she could not use public transport and suspended her from driving for six months.

Williams failed on three occasions to reply to letters from the police between April and June 2023.

In October, two Metropolitan Police officers were sacked over a stop and search of Williams and her partner, the Portuguese sprinter Ricardo Dos Santos, 28, in 2020.
The couple are black and claimed they were racially profiled.

A police misconduct hearing was told officers followed Mr Dos Santos in their police carrier because of the "appalling" and "suspicious" nature of his driving and were doing their duty when they conducted the stop and search.

But the panel found two officers had lied about smelling cannabis..

..Williams was disqualified from driving for six months and ordered to pay a fine of £276, a surcharge of £110 and £85 costs. Another 18 points were added to her licence, bringing her total to 29.”

Seems like there’s a strong chance the driving at the time of the incident with those officers was pretty poor. 29 points on your license is some going.

Obviously doesn’t excuse the conduct of the two that lied and the unlawful searches in the slightest but it seems the actual stop itself could have been valid.
 

Pexbo

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TheReligion said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67613292

“British sprinter Bianca Williams has been banned from driving despite telling a court it would jeopardise her chances of going to the 2024 Olympics.

Williams, 29, failed to tell police who was driving a Tesla Model 3 when an alleged offence took place.

The athlete claimed a ban would make it difficult for her to get to training.
But magistrates at Lavender Hill rejected her claim that she could not use public transport and suspended her from driving for six months.

Williams failed on three occasions to reply to letters from the police between April and June 2023.

In October, two Metropolitan Police officers were sacked over a stop and search of Williams and her partner, the Portuguese sprinter Ricardo Dos Santos, 28, in 2020.
The couple are black and claimed they were racially profiled.

A police misconduct hearing was told officers followed Mr Dos Santos in their police carrier because of the "appalling" and "suspicious" nature of his driving and were doing their duty when they conducted the stop and search.

But the panel found two officers had lied about smelling cannabis..

..Williams was disqualified from driving for six months and ordered to pay a fine of £276, a surcharge of £110 and £85 costs. Another 18 points were added to her licence, bringing her total to 29.”

Seems like there’s a strong chance the driving at the time of the incident with those officers was pretty poor. 29 points on your license is some going.

Obviously doesn’t excuse the conduct of the two that lied and the unlawful searches in the slightest but it seems the actual stop itself could have been valid.
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Doing the rounds in the old boys WhatsApp groups is it?
 

yumtum

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Sara125 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cerlne2vr3lo.amp

Glad to see more and more officers and being sacked over incidents such as these
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"What do you mean you didn't know it was police" as he's effectively being jumped by three random men in plain clothes in the dark - I swear officers are getting dumber every year, it doesn't take a genius to see why someone might mistake a police officer wearing civilian clothing as a civilian.

That being said, cars are not airtight, and you will absolutely smell weed from a car with closed windows.
 

Buster15

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67958136

Police officers made "sickening" comments about an assault victim while watching body-worn video showing her groin, the BBC has learned.

The woman's body was exposed when she was filmed suffering from a seizure. Three Thames Valley Police PCs later watched the footage without reason.

None of these police officers were subject to any disciplinary procedures at the time.
But a student police officer who reported the incident was DISMISSED.
 

FireballXL5

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Buster15 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67958136

Police officers made "sickening" comments about an assault victim while watching body-worn video showing her groin, the BBC has learned.

The woman's body was exposed when she was filmed suffering from a seizure. Three Thames Valley Police PCs later watched the footage without reason.

None of these police officers were subject to any disciplinary procedures at the time.
But a student police officer who reported the incident was DISMISSED.
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Was just reading that. To dismiss the student officer....just unbelievable, but totally believable if you know the fecking police.
 

horsechoker

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Buster15 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67958136

Police officers made "sickening" comments about an assault victim while watching body-worn video showing her groin, the BBC has learned.

The woman's body was exposed when she was filmed suffering from a seizure. Three Thames Valley Police PCs later watched the footage without reason.

None of these police officers were subject to any disciplinary procedures at the time.
But a student police officer who reported the incident was DISMISSED.
Click to expand...
Nobody likes a snitch
 

TheReligion

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FireballXL5 said:
Was just reading that. To dismiss the student officer....just unbelievable, but totally believable if you know the fecking police.
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Not really unbelievable. Reading between the lines there were separate issues with their performance and they were on their second tutor Constable.

Its not easy to get rid of anyone really so despite the best efforts to link the two things I’d suggest they are entirely separate and their will be a clear audit trail to show this.

Its a shame though as the officer clearly had great integrity in doing what they did.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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TheReligion said:
Not really unbelievable. Reading between the lines there were separate issues with their performance and they were on their second tutor Constable.

Its not easy to get rid of anyone really so despite the best efforts to link the two things I’d suggest they are entirely separate and their will be a clear audit trail to show this.

Its a shame though as the officer clearly had great integrity in doing what they did.
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Things sometimes will be black and white, other times shades of grey. I get the MET as an institution and the police in general have massive issues but at some stages, the media are just stoking a lot of this stuff up.
 
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